Shelley and Revolutionary Ireland

by Ray Wed Sep 18, 2002 13:15

post somewhere else

if it was removed once it'll be removed this time too, won't it?

by pat c Wed Sep 18, 2002 13:19

its good to hear about this.

in his book "red shelley", foot touched on the irish adventures of shelley; it deserves a book of its own.

the book "red shelley" is well worth reading; it reclaims shelley for the revolutionary tradition.

by pat c Wed Sep 18, 2002 13:22

why was it removed previously? this is not a typical commercial book launch; it would be of interest to many people on this site.

by Ray Wed Sep 18, 2002 13:24

This is pretty clearly an advertisement, and ads aren't allowed.
I might be inclined to give it the benefit of the doubt if it was a shorter message, but this includes the back-cover blurbs.
Anyway, I notice this version of the post doesn't include the price or where to buy the book, so maybe the editors will let it off.

by E Wed Sep 18, 2002 13:30

Well don't you think that this book launch may not that much (or no) coverage in the mainstream press? So what’s the problem? Everything is an advert here in one way or another if you want to think like that.

by Andrew Wed Sep 18, 2002 13:32

I thinks it probably carrying the ban on ads a bit too far if anything that mentions a cost and supplier is removed. I recognise there is a need to discourage spamming of the newswire with 'buy our latest publication' type posts but in this case this is an announcement for a book launch of a book published by someone on the Irish left on a subject relevant to Ireland. In that circumstance I'd actually quite like to know how much it costs!

I would suggest that what is needed is some sort of written guidelines on what will count as an ad linked to from the 'publish' page. That way the poster would know to delete whatever info pushed something over the line.

by IMC supporter Wed Sep 18, 2002 13:40

This book is a commercial product and this newswire should not be used for commercial ads. It's as simple as that.

by E Wed Sep 18, 2002 13:58

this book is from a radical/socialist viewpoint and deals specially with a period of Irish history (the early 19th century). It will probably get no coverage in the mainstream/establishment press/publications and therefore should be advertised where possible on independent newswires. It only has a smaill print run from what I know (1000-1500 copies).

It also deals with a little researched area of Shelleys political experiences with Ireland and Paul has done some great work over the last 2-3 years getting this book together.

So let it go and come to the book launch if anyone is interested up in Dublin.

by Ray Wed Sep 18, 2002 14:01

- Well don't you think that this book launch may not that much (or no) coverage in the mainstream press? So what’s the problem?

That's not sufficient justification for posting something on the newswire, is it? My breakfast hasn't gotten any mainstream coverage (yet, I'm still hopeful on the film rights), but I'm not posting about it. A facetious example, yeah, my point is that the level of mainstream coverage has nothing to do with indymedia. RTS got lots of coverage here and there. County council discussions about streetlights don't get coverage here or there.

- Everything is an advert here in one way or another if you want to think like that.

Are any of them posts where the poster stands to make money from the posting? Or works for an organisation that makes money from the posting?

(This came up before, BTW, when someone recommended a film that was on in the IFC for its political content. Since he had nothing to do with either the film or the IFC, and had nothing to gain from the posting, it wasn't considered advertising. This case is clearly different.)

This is a bit of a grey area alright, and is something that has to be discussed further (or at least it does if Dada editors will still be removing advertising)

by imcer Wed Sep 18, 2002 14:09

Event is free in so anyone can go without commerce being involved

by Corporate Left Watchdog Wed Sep 18, 2002 14:13

"A commodity is, in the first place, an object outside us, a thing that by its properties satisfies human wants of some sort or another. The nature of such wants, whether, for instance, they sping from the stomach or from fancy, makes no difference".

by bysshe Wed Sep 18, 2002 14:18

And these words shall then become
Like Oppression's thundered doom
Ringing through each heart and brain,
Heard again -- again -- again--

`Rise like Lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number--
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you--
Ye are many -- they are few.'

from Mask of anarchy
http://www.english.upenn.edu/~jlynch/FrankenDemo/PShelley/anarchy.html

by Ruairi Wed Sep 18, 2002 14:21

I thought it was a wortwhile post and it appears other did too. Sure, it is on a fuzzy ground but I would say editing needs to be done on a priority basis and this ain't anything too shaky. Chilllllllllllllll

by bysshe Wed Sep 18, 2002 14:28

Such is this conflict--when mankind doth strive
With its oppressors in a strife of blood,
Or when free thoughts, like lightnings, are alive,
And in each bosom of the multitude
Justice and truth with custom's hydra brood
Wage silent war; when priests and kings dissemble
In smiles or frowns their fierce disquietude,
When round pure hearts a host of hopes assemble,
The Snake and Eagle meet--the world's foundations tremble!

from the Revolt of Islam

by Ray Wed Sep 18, 2002 14:31

Be
No
Longer
Lather's slave
Treat yourself to
Burma-Shave

by bored Wed Sep 18, 2002 14:51

surely the last comment is an ad and should be removed :-)

by raywatch - MPFC Wed Sep 18, 2002 14:53

and pays for his internet connec#tion

by Ray Wed Sep 18, 2002 14:59

that my posts in no way represent the opinions of the Burma Shave corporation. They are a fine, upstanding company, and I'm sure Shelley would have been happy to endorse their many wonderful products.

Other products
Many stings
Says Ozymandias
King of kings
Burma Shave!

by iosaf mac diarmada - reclaim the streets! Wed Sep 18, 2002 17:05 iosaf at email dot com codols23x placa george orwell, Barcelona Catalunya08002 0034 679 708 674

i might be getting my facts wrong (as usual)
but I had always thought
the wonderful
Percy B Shelly
was sent down from Cambridge for being the alledged author of a pamphlet on Atheism.

I remember one night in Monkstown in 1989 (the obligatory sentimental bit) which I spent in the company of a fine anarchist who like me had also been sent down from one of the three sister universities. (Oxon, Cantab, Dub)
I refer of course to
Christopher Daybell poet, pamphleteer and anarchist a person of rare genius would occasionally assume the personality of the Lord Byron. On that occasion he elected me to channel the young Shelly.
I quite enjoyed the experience.
There are numerous connections between that crew of pamphleteers and Ireland.
But with respect to Ray who always upholds the IMC ireland editorial policy, this is a bit of an advert no?
I wonder does anyone else miss Christopher?
and some day will his contributions to the Guildford 4, Birmingham 6 and Saoirse campaigns be acknowledged?
I remember his manic-depression and obvious inner pain, and the occasion for that perhaps delusional moment in Monkstown 89.
correspondance with the late Lord Chancellor of England, Quentin Hogg.
correspondance I was privy to see.
letters written by Lord Hailsham´s daughter in which he refuted his own "appaling vistas" verdict against Irish political prisoners kept unjustly in english jails.
This lent much impetus to the wider campaign then in the early nineties to release innocent Irish political prisoners.
there you go!
Ozymandias is a crackingly good poem though no?

by Ray Wed Sep 18, 2002 17:08

- i might be getting my facts wrong (as usual)
but I had always thought
the wonderful
Percy B Shelly
was sent down from Cambridge for being the alledged author of a pamphlet on Atheism.

I think that was Byron. But I could be wrong.

(Legend has it that Byron also got into trouble for painting graffiti on the wall of a dead end saying 'This way to heaven')

by Banjo Wed Sep 18, 2002 18:07

An Irish socialist publishes a radical book about Shelley in Ireland. The book launch is announced in Indymedia. Ray complains. The announcement is immediately censored.

Ray's justification: "My breakfast hasn't gotten any mainstream coverage (yet, I'm still hopeful on the film rights), but I'm not posting about it." That is to say he in his charmingly fraternal manner he claims the book has no interest to people vitisiting this site.

The real reason is transparently because it is written by a socialist from an organistion which he disagrees with.

One of Ray's fellow anarchists then posts: "It appears the reason that the Shelley book was removed the first time was that it included details on how to buy the book and its cost."

Ray pretends he has no influence on what is censored from the newswire but gives the game away when he posts: "I might be inclined to give it the benefit of the doubt..." blah blah.

In other words "we don't need a genuine reason, we don't like you so we'll fuck you about!"

It's two fingers to the readers of Indymedia saying "you're not allowed to know about the prce of this book!"

This sort of carry-on is why the cabal behind Indymedia have the reputation of sectarian bastards and why anarchism's pretence at libertarianism produces loud laughter.

by pat c Wed Sep 18, 2002 18:19

i disagree with ray regarding the book & bloody sunday film. however, i don't think ray has ever acted in a sectarian manner when carrying out his duties as an imc volunteer.

regardless of the source, he criticises if he thinks the post is inappropriate. (imho hes just wrong sometimes.)

by Rose Wed Sep 18, 2002 18:27

This sort of carry-on is why the cabal behind Indymedia have the reputation of sectarian bastards and why anarchism's pretence at libertarianism produces loud laughter...

the cabal behind the SWP spends half their time attacking indymedia and the other half trying to hijack it. SWP you're not welcome here.
Reclaim the streets.

by Nobody Much Wed Sep 18, 2002 19:56

I know it's hard to believe and it takes a flight of imagination but deep down Rose really does believe in human freedom. Don't you think?

by bysshe Wed Sep 18, 2002 21:07

There are too many people reading this site without enough poetry in their life.

Rage against the oppressors
Rebel against the landlords
but sing while you do it

by bysshe Wed Sep 18, 2002 21:11

shelley was expelled from oxford for publishing the first public declaration of atheism in England:

The necessity of atheism is available at
http://www.english.upenn.edu/~jlynch/FrankenDemo/PShelley/atheism.html

He sent it to every bishop he could and the college authorities to make sure they noticed.

by Rose Wed Sep 18, 2002 21:53

Rage against the SWP
Rebel against the political committee
but sing while you do it

by the bug - the bug Wed Sep 18, 2002 23:08

anyone genuinely interested in history or literature or social change would not use the excuse of an advertisement for the launch of a book by an irish socialist about the relationship of the work and life of one of the most political and influential writers of all time to spew their disgusting sectarian rubbish in public. What is their real agenda? Is somebody paying these people or are they just embittered by the fact that nobody outside their mates recognises that they should be president. Either way they are ratbags.

by bysshe Thu Sep 19, 2002 08:38

...people are just trolling

by E Thu Sep 19, 2002 09:25

trolltime is upon us.

by moses - ROSEWATCH Thu Sep 19, 2002 09:30

Rose has membership of that select few (ie WSM) gone to your head or are you just missing your skateboard.

by Forces of Darkness Thu Sep 19, 2002 09:50

How did Rose get on at Alan's wedding. Charming as always!!!

by blisset Thu Sep 19, 2002 11:11

I think you are a c*p rose - or at least would like to be - maybe if you give SB a fone they'll have a paypacket for your shitstirring - SWP are as welcome here as RTS /WSM/Greens/Shinners - If you have a problem with them - go to GPO early on Saturdays and sort it out - this is a news service not an online abuse carrier -

by pat c Thu Sep 19, 2002 11:33

what do these comments mean re rose?
what is her connection with health boards & why is it worthy of mention?

please do tell.

by iosaf = o as if - rts Thu Sep 19, 2002 12:54 iosaf at email dot com codols 23 barCa ctalunya 08002 0034 679 708 694

ok ok ´twas oxford to be sure.

there were many pamphlets.
the last was mailed to all bishops.

co-authored with Jefferson Hogg.

which i find quite strange since yesterday i went off on one about Quentin Hogg, Thatcher´s Lord Chancellor, or was he technically Mrs Saxe-Coburg-Goethe´s Lord Chancellor?

Anyway they refused to recant the pamphlet.
which is why they were sent down.
Anarchists smell nice.
I do anyway. and I´m sure Ray does to.
Libertarianism smells dodgey.
this is becoming one of the most intersesting and relaxed comment/chat sub sites on IMC ireland isn´t it? just to think Shelley still has the power to move us.
And that Byron was a graffiti artist is definitely a new one, please any info to my email, or post it on the http://www.infoshop.org
site.
Christopher Daybell would have been delighted, one for Sunday, there has always been a noble and vital tradition of pamphleteering, as I aluded to yesterday often thought quite insane nd potty and dizzy and mad anarchists held important information and in the dark pre-Indmedia days had only the street as an option to distribute that info.
Christopher Daybell at a crucial stage held letters from Q. Hogg concerning Irish innocents in British Jails. This correspondance stretched from 1989-1990. A small group of people myself included and Paul Hill of the Guildford 4, were shown those letters. Hogg´s daughter typewrote them for father who was suffering a chronic health condition. The mainstream media outlets in both Ireland and the UK ignored that information.
stuff like that is harder now thanks to IMC.
Christopher never lived to see IMC Ireland or the other IMC projects which transnationally changed the mechanisms of free speech.
Good Work IMC Ireland!!
Good Work Indmedia!
reclaim the internet!
reclaim the airwaves!
reclaim the genome!
reclaim the streets!
reclaim the future!
reclaim Shelley!
(I´m on a good one today):-)

by . Thu Sep 19, 2002 13:24

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