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No to all forms of Terrorism!
The horrific bomb attacks in Spain are inexcusable. Targeting ordinary people is the work of evil people and no cause can justify it. However, the rank hypocrisy of the politicians and governments who supported the war in Iraq condemning the attacks should be noted. For example, the Europe minister, Denis MacShane, stated that "no progress in human affairs will ever be built on the blood of innocent people." Someone should tell his leader Blair that. Blair obviously considers the ten thousand plus innocent Iraqis killed by his and Bush's invasion and occupation of their country as a price worth paying to make "progress."
MacShane correctly argued that "those who find ways of justifying terrorism, who can talk of understanding the motives of terrorist actions need to think hard and think differently." The defenders and practitioners of state terrorism (and war is terrorism) should ponder those words as well. Blair, after all, did exactly that the week before, justifying his actions and asking us to "understand" why he did it.
Thus the morality of the state comes into play. Legal violence is good, non-state approved violence is wrong. So when the state sheds the blood of innocent people to further its ends then it is considered normal, even praiseworthy. When others do so then they are evil beyond belief. In reality, it matters little to the victim whether they were murdered by the state or the terrorist. And in terms of common humanity, we should condemn both state and non-state terrorism in all their forms. We must condemn this atrocity as well as the atrocity of war.
It seems that, at the time of writing, ETA, the Basque Nationalist group, is at the top of the list for being blamed for the atrocity (Islamic terrorists being a close second). While it is obviously too early is know whether they are or not, this has not stopped Spanish politicians claiming within hours (and without evidence) it is ETA. No one has (so far) claimed responsibility. ETA, obviously, cannot be ruled out although this atrocity is substantially different from their usual activity. The leader of the banned pro-ETA Basque separatist party, Batasuna, denied that ETA could have been behind the attacks. One thing is sure, we can expect this evil act to be used to justify increased state repression and authoritarianism across Europe. In Spain, we can expect it to be used to justify more repressions of radicals, regardless of their links with ETA or Basque Nationalism.
So while numerous politicians have called this an attack on European democracy, the sad fact is that these very same politicians will now enact laws which undermine the very freedoms and democracy they claim to defend. The Spanish state has, after all, been at the forefront in trying to get the EU to toughen its "anti-terrorist" policies. This act will bolster such policies and we must condemn not only the attack about also attempts by politicians, bureaucrats and police to utilise it for their own ends.
The Madrid atrocity may have been done by ETA However, given that the Spanish Prime Minister, in the face of overwhelming public opposition, strongly supported the US-led war in Iraq, his actions could have exposed Spaniards to attack by Islamic extremist groups. If so, then yet again ordinary people are paying the price of their politicians' egos. It also makes a mockery of the claim that invading Iraq reduced rather than increased the threat of Islamic terrorism.
Ultimately, the only way to combat terrorism (both state and non-state) is to tackle its roots in an unjust system based on power and profit. While doing that, while opposing terrorism in all its forms, we must also not allow politicians and the state to use the deaths to destroy yet more of our liberties and rights.
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international |
rights, freedoms and repression |
opinion/analysis
Friday March 12, 2004 13:45
by Anarcho
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Comments (28 of 28)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28why not say no to all forms of violence?
Violence will be necessary to overthrow the present system. Do you really believe that they would go without a fight?
What about anarchist violence in Spain- shooting de poor nuns! Catch yerself on!
There is no place for violence in the creation or maintenance of a humane world.
is a laudable idea, but unfortunately only that.
Stretching back to the time of the French Revolution and before the only means in most cases to depose tyrants has been for the people to overthrow them by force.
There have been a number of exceptions like in India where the Brits were given a kick in the arse while already on their way out the door but they are few and far between.
The Meek Shall Inherit The Earth Only When Our Rulers Are Tired Of Ruling...which will be never.
Pacifism and non-violence are and never will be the way to overthrow the opressors of this planet.
No to State Terrorism.
Saw Blair on the news last night saying
something along the lines of "it is
unbelievable that anyone should think any
cause can justify such actions"
How many people have died due to him
fighting for a cause, be it "democracy" (read capitalism) or the "war on terror"
Well, I'm sure we can expect a greater
extension of police powers and more
institutional racism as a result of this attack.
Maybe it will be part of the justification for the next war.
The only thing actions like this serve is the state
The bombing in Madrid is a tradegy, and the blame for is either al quida or eta. The real blame for this bomb lies with Bush, blair and Anzer.
The spanish state has been ruthless in punishment of ETA, while the role spain played n the war against terror makes it a target.
The anti war movement stated back in 2001 that the war on terror will lead to more terrorist attacks not less.
as usual its the ruled not the rulers who pay the price for the decisions made by our leaders.
violence in all its forms is just a statement of fear, a desperate attempt to assert control. sometimes it is understandable but it is never really justifiable.
states use it, insurgents use it, but a REVOLUTIONARY would never dream of it.
Revolution is about over throwing the economic and social order because it does not work for the majority.
As I have posted earlier..the meek...in my opinion non-violence is an ideal and I have no arguements with pacifists, but they become supporters of oppression when they condemn revolutionary violence...
As Malcolm X rightly said the KKK would of been stopped if you put an armed person in every black person's home in the southern states of the USA...that is revolutionary violence against racism..self defense is no offense..
Ghandi was a fool
It seems very likely to me that the CIA is behind the bombings. The Spanish government is merely capitalising on the events to crush the separatist movement. Assuming that the United States is sponsoring the bombings, creating a little Spanish Reichstag/World Trade Towers, then we in the anti-fascist community don't need to split ourselves in whether or not the ETA is responsibly revolutionary.
Just think about it before you rush to any rash conclusions.
They even left "evidence" behind - a tape of Islamic religious nature just happened to be found in a "suspicious" van nearby.
The whole thing was choreographed to fit in with the elections.
Definitely a CIA operation.
Of course I am revolted by the vile mass murder in Madrid. But I am struck by the double standard. Just last year, about 120 Colombians were murdered by the FARC when they bombed a church in Bojaya, Choco province. I don't remember Ahern or his cronies even taking 20 seconds to condemn this. In fact EU policy gives succour to the FARC multiple murderers. Then again I guess South American lives don't count for the same as Europeans.
the bombings in madrid where vile disgusting and deviod of justification. the ongoing debates about who was respondsible is perhaps distracting from the reality of unidentifiable dead, multilated injured and increasing instillion of fear into peoples daily life. Whether this is ETA's omagh or enniskillen or whether this is the work of fundementalists { islamic or neoliberal funded state provocatures} the resulting effect is a destablising effect that continues to evolve. Already it seems that people are willing to 'claim' this atrocity as their own, to futher positons and views that at the very least are ego massaging and show litte empathy about the mass destuction of human life.
"The Spanish government is merely capitalising on the events to crush the separatist movement" im not interested in getting involved in a tit for tat meanderings but i think the above statement is very premature and some what wishfullfillment to reinforce an individual position/belief.
i doubt whether islamic extremists will be pissed off if this really is the work of da CIA or other state sponsored agencies/cells. i doubt they are concerned with bad press{ i may be wrong but its unlikely}. Equally if this mass murdering of peole was carried out by islamic extremists i'd say the CIA or whoever would view the resulting carnage as justiftying the existence of they own org. winners all round there!!!
neither of the above may be the truth of what happened and what ever is the truth is not gonna be any more palatable than either of these things. there are many groups individuals and governments who proactively want to create fear, or are willing to use that fear to advance their own agenda....these agendas are multitude and to reduce them to noeliberal/capatalist christian fundementalism v islamic fundemantalism is simplistic, however understandable.
these parties are very powerful but make up a tiny tiny percentage of the most social creative imaginative species on the planet...our struggles to achieve justice equality will not be furhered by running up the cul de sac of conspiracy and rumour, but can be with the empathc desire to eradicate the systems of justifcation and detach them from real attempts of understanding.
Or humanity, with all its corruption,is all that we have to shape our world now today and tomorrow, there is no claim no blame to absolve us collectively or individually.
No to all State and Non-State Terror.
When the violent revolutionaries take over they continue the oppression.
As happened with the French.
Terror is terror from whatever quarter.
It was Gandhi who said "You are trying to kill the tiger (within the establishment) but are keeping the tiger alive within yourselves."
If Gandhi was a fool, tell me who are the wise ones?
The interest by the Spainish government on blaming ETA is merely to increase votes for the election on Sunday, and so they are still trying to keep that story going.
However it would seem to be the work of Al-Qaeda considering it follows a similar pattern to other ones, such as no warning,, massive casualities, and a level up, above your average terrorist attack, in terms of planning and political impact.
Right at the moment then, it's not good for the current Spainish government that it's Al-Qaeda, and those who were opposed to the war, may now become quite angry at the government. Nevertheless, which ever particular party gets voted in on Sunday, it is not vitally important, because either way, this attack will be used by the state to justify further attacks on civil liberties in an attempt to push Spain further towards a fascist state. Indeed Spain, Italy and the UK to some extent, are bridgeheads for this drive in the EU. All we need are at least one more of the major EU powers to follow the pattern and that could be either France and German. Then at that stage all the smaller countries will be forced to tag along and were screwed then.
Al-Qaeda as is well known grew out of the Afghan-USSR war and at that time were heavily funded and controlled by the CIA via Pakistani intelligence. The CIA helped setup the former training camps of Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan which they blew up back in the attack in 2001. It would be incredible to think even one second, that the CIA just walked away from this asset -that is Al-Qaeda after the end of the Afghan war.
The CIA most likely control Al-Qaeda by having high level operatives throughout it's structure, all the way to the top and financing, while complex, would be channeled through various fronts to the group. The average Arab joining Al-Qaeda at the bottom would be none the wiser and there is most likely an endless supply of willing subjects for suicide attacks of all kinds. What they would not realize is that the main body of the organisation is controlled by the CIA and perhaps even by small sub-groups of other intelligence services such as for example MI5.
To carry out an attack such as the one in Madrid, or the recent Turkish one, or the Bali one, or 9/11 would require enormous advance planning. There is just simply no way that the existing facilities of intelligence collecting agencies such as the NSA (using Echelon) would not pick up on something and then human intelligence, which the Pakistanis (and the Israeli Mossad) would be very good too. So to actually carry out the attack, these terrorists would have to overcome so many potential barriers in terms of keeping it secret, that in fact it is simply impossible. The only way is that the intelligence agencies of all the major powers are in on the loop as it were and the high level agents within Al-Qaeda co-ordinate things with the main part of the CIA and other agencies so that all plans and lead up actions go smoothly. It ought to be noted that it is highly likely that every arms dealer of significance is under constant surveillance too. To make Al-Qaeda believable to those members who are not operatives, the organisation would be run in such a way to be as close as possible to a real terrorist organisation so as to maintain the fiction and hide the real actors controlling the levers behind it.
I totally condemn these attacks, no matter who did them, but we must be realistic here as in my tentative analysis and face up to the ugly facts that these people in power (i.e. Bush Cabal) will do anything that is necessary. Think about it! Did they not already launch a war against Iraq, where we know 500+ of their own troops were killed and 10,000+ Iraqi civilians. When you are that deep in blood, what difference does another 190 or so make?
The CIA planted and planned the Madrid bombs?OH PLEEEZEE!!!!!! What planet are some of you people on? you will be blaming them next for the Irish weather!!
Do you even THINK of what sort of an organisation ,logistics,and consequences that sort of an action would have for the USA and its relationships with Europe and the rest of the world?
I know you all think that the CIA is an all omnipresent,evil,able to find out what you had for breakfast organisation.Run by George Bush REALITY CHECK people.Contray to pouplar belif and Hollywood the CIA is an awful hidebound,ponderous beracuracy,that spends a fortune of the US taxpayers money on third rate intelligence gathering,and botched crackpot plans. They were pretty much emasculated by the Church comittie in 1977 under Carter.Which theUS is now paying the price for.[Unlike Mossad and FSU,who dont think twice about offing their opponents ]
To even do a "termanation with extreme prejudice"[assination] of a person it requires so much paperwork,ass covering and has to be singed off by the US secetary of state.So who in their right mind is going to order up a mass bombing in the hope of achiveing exactly WHAT?
If Alquieda is under CIA control as some people claim and it is a"rouge"operation.It would be no big deal for the CIA to roll up its finance,arms,head honchos,etc.as they would have installed it themselves.Much more value in that,than damageing a good ally.Going your logic it would have been better to blow up Waterloo station in London at rush hour and blame the AL quieda.
To stop making yourselves look like complete idiots,I would suggest a read and indepth study of the subject you are going to pontificate on.Prefably on some people who worked or had an association with the company,and not some sort of Tom Clancy,fictional rubbish,or what some leftwing conspiricy nut posted on a news group,whilst on an acid trip.
Heres one for you to conspire on.Try the Spanish govt themselves. Win/win for them.
If it is proven ETA did it.Goodbye ETA and another four years. Al quieda,more hostility to the muslim community in Spain,more logistics to Spain from the US,and a black eye to the anti war protestors ,by saying see the al quieda dont care wether you are pro or anti war or support orare against the USA.you are all targets.
black eye for protesters.
bullets for basques
knives for morrocans.
and all because out there in the big bad world there are a few people who think it right to put explosive with mobiles in bags and blow up trains.
And you know who taught them how?
KGB,Any former East block intelligence service,PIRA,RIRA,CIRA,red army faction,Baader Meinhoff,Red Brigade,Libya,Iraq,Iran,N Korea,Cuba,Zimbabwae. Take your pick.
Considering that the rucksack bomb had a mobile phone initator on the design used by RIRA,another coincidence?Like the Irish "tourists"in FRAC terrority in Coloumbia?
Except LG is looks like it was Al Qaeda. And we all know who trained them. But for some reason you 'forgot' to include them in your list above.
Who DID train Al Quieda?
The CIA you blithely say???
Of course you are privvy to some US State Dept CIA confidential/secret papers that authorised this?No?Maybe you sat in in such a meeting possibly?
Ok ...Maybe YOU were a member of a CIA/US spec ops unit that trained Osma Bin Ladin and the Taliban/Al Quieda under the benign&peaceful "visit"by the Soviet army?
Of course maybe you were a employee in the CIA and saw/kept secret documents that PROVES that there is a DIRECT link?
MAYBE the answer is more simpler.Maybe the CIA financed Bin ladin&co.Which would have made sense as the world was alot different back in the eighties.[You proably wouldnt have had much of it,as no doubt you were still in nappies.]
And maybe Bin ladin & Co after ten years of very brutal repression and butchery by the peace loving Sovs,were well able to kick the workers armys collective asses,whose force was made up of conscripts and the dregs BTW.As well as a good few from the Muslim states who to save their own hides turned to Allah and taught the Mujhadeen how to fight an effective gurellia war?Then maybe BL turned renegade after one attack of Allah too many and decided he was on Gods or Allahs work.known as simply a renegade.Maybe when the finances were cut he simply moved to sell us a poision we willingy buy in Europe,called opium.Afghanistan is one of the largest producers of drugs in the world.BTW Allah forgives many sins to forward his cause against the infidel.Incase you were going to say that the Taliban forbade the use of drugs.
Maybe when he should have been removed by any means necessary,there was a liberal limpdick president in charge of the US,who was too chickenshit or otherwise engaged to make very tough decisions,and rather would let his troops be sacrificed for political expediency and "peace negotations" in such places as Somalia,Kenya,Khobar Towers[Saudi Arabia] and the USS Cole.
Could it be this simple Joe?your insight would be appreciated
No matter what happens in the world, these clowns always blame AmeriKKKa.
To them, AmeriKKKa is the most evil country in the world, Saddam Hussein is a respected statesman, Cuba and North Korea are workers paradises.
Oh, and I nearly forgot, Bu$h = Hitler.
Don't waste your time on these clowns, they're all college students anyway, in a couple of years they'll all sell out and enter the system. They always do.
Amerikkka was built on slavery and ethnic cleansing.
Saddam Hussien was a lackey of both the USA and the UK, the Mad Dog of Baghdad got his teeth with our taxes...so where does that leave the pro-war lobby..hypocrites the lot of you.
OK so we basically agree that bin Laden was not trained by any of the inital groups you listed but at least in part by the CIA. I'm not too worried about the geopolitical reasons for this, I was old enough in the 1980's to march against Regan in 1984. I was aware of the Soviet occupation of Afganisatan and no fan of it.
Your idea that allah came to bin Laden some time after this war ended is a little odd though. Surely you are aware that in aiding the insurgency both the US and the Saudis very much encouraged fundamentalism? This was hardly a secret either at the time or now so why deny it?
What country wasnt built on ethnic cleansing or bloodshed?Forgot conviently did you that the main supplier to Saddo was the Russians,when the West cut his supplies?Apart from the French and Germans who sold him mirage jets and the technology to make nerve gas?Peacenicks and their naiveity.
Joe
According to Bin Ladins family still in Saudi ,he always was a total religious nut,even to the point of refusing to look at any of his female relatives without them being veiled in the privacy of their home.
His family disowned him when he got more fundalmentalist,and he was disowned by the Suadi govt after the Khobar towers massacare.[although the saudis let him slip out of the country].
ASFIK there were plenty of other muhadeen groups that were not extreme fundamentalist and had a more pro Western outlook, yet they were not supported or aided by the West. .
Why did the Taliban come to power?Better equipped,better trained,better financed thru drug money.in a better stratgeic location to fight.More sympathetic to a pouplation that is unfortuneatly very illiterate and primitive,thru no fault of their own.Ambivilance and no forward thinking in the White house Re this subject thru two presidencies.
Think back to the Eighties then,it was the Reds V the West.The cold war was being fought by proxy all over the world.So anything or anyone that would have blackened Ivans eye would have been used.Damn their religion,can they kick Red ass?Was the asked question in DC. Can they kicksy decadent capitalist assky?Was asked in the Kremlin.Both sides supported nut groups,and never considerd the consequences. Did anyone sit down and say "Hey this Osma guy.He is a total religious nut who hates the West,and we can use him in later years for our plan in the New World Order as a boogeyman to impliment it.Lets finance and train him?"
Bit too X files dont you think?
but the BCN lot are taking better care of them.
look at their faces Lone Gun Man.
such perfect copies.
such Craft
beyond ages.
LG it can be a bit hard to work out your 'replies' to me. You seem to think you are arguing with some fan of French or Russian imperialism and so imaqine a 'sure aren't they all equally bad' answers something. Saddam is a case in point as at various times he has received military aid from the Russians (both pre and post '89), France, Britain and Germany as well as the US. A nice illustration that the problem is 'the system' rather than whoever happens to be at the top at any given moment. [FYI I'm neither a fan of Kerry of Clinton either).
I see you now admit that bin Laden was trained by the US but reckon this is OK cause the cold war was on. Whatever!