Dublin Bus Drivers Victimised for Joining Union and Organising

by dube Sat Aug 21, 2004 23:55

what the craic with the luas did someone say they were having trouble even wth the one union deal?

by query Sun Aug 22, 2004 06:11

"his or her " any woman /women actually involved?

by R. Isible Sun Aug 22, 2004 20:36

Absolutely and completely outrageous. Hopefully some managerial heads are going to roll over this. If the person(s) that implemented the suspensions aren't relieved of their positions then it's a clear signal that near-criminal actions go unpunished as long as you're in a more powerful position.

Well done to the IWU activists for having the courage of their convictions and caring about their work environment.

by APRN Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:50

Story broken in An Phoblacht on Thursday.

http://www.anphoblacht.com/news/detail/6158

by arthur Tue Aug 24, 2004 02:08

It is regrettably the same old story,stand up for your rights and get victimised ,isolated and worse still probally secretly blacklisted.
The only way to combat this is to educate ,difficult as it may be ,colleagues ,that they may be future canidates for the same treatment.
A prime example of this was during the miners strike GB,a rival union was set up and applauded by the Tory Gov to break the strike and when the leaders outlived their usefullness they were consigned to the scrapheap.
Vigorous use was made of blacklisting organisations like the now defunct Economic League and employers secretly subscribed and accessed details of prospective employees using codes .
Depending on the law is a waste of time as there have been many such processes where a small group are involved like security officers at Belfast Airport who simply get the runaround.
What employers sometimes fail to recognise is that responsible employees can get demoralised when the harmony of the workplace is disrupted ,this is not desireable for employees who have responsibility for transporting the general public.
Strikes should be avoided as they are bad for the image of the country and employees should not be forced into a situation where they find their backs against the wall.

by TU Tue Aug 24, 2004 07:19

"Strikes should be avoided as they are bad for the image of the country"

The current image of the country is one of employers walking all over workers, a strkie would do us all the world of good.

by Jonny B Tue Aug 24, 2004 09:39

This is simply fear. Dublin Bus are frightened of another union, currently they have siptu and nbru who do exactly as they are told. recently those two unions have voted at branch level to evicerate the assault scheme for dublin bus drivers. this was done because dublin bus refused to abide by the agreement that was there, so the two unions voted to change this agreement, to water it down, make it harder for drivers to be treated properly when assaulted, to take away safeguards in short alter it to what dublin bus wanted WITHOUT ASKING THE MEMBERS.

Remember it is very hard to avail of your rights when you have the company and the unions refusing them to you.

There is a cosy cartel of unions doing managements bidding and the sooner that is stopped the better.

Everyone should join the IWU because if they are this frightened of it then it has to be good.

by PD Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:06

It would appear that dublin bus have sacked one worker and have tried to sack another for belonging to a union that they dont want their employees to belong to.


This makes it even worse.

The management are obviously bullies and should be sacked.

this is a government company and therefore an arm of the state so it appears the government is breaking its own and EU law in order to victimise people for having the audacity to assert their rights under the Irish Constitution and EU treaties

by Slow Learner Tue Aug 24, 2004 13:40

I have been a member of SIPTU, previously ITGWU, all my working life and at last i'm fed up with it all. I believe people have both a right and a duty to be in a union and to act together to improve both their own conditions and those of others where they can. For years we have been watching union leaders cosy up to IBEC and Fianna Fail to get us crappy deals, and the right to have your union recognised still isn't in the constitution! Well, i've had enough of them, my application to the independent workers union is going in this morning and i hope i can get other siptu members to do the same. Fewer members means less money coming into Siptu, that'll put the buggers under pressure. I hope that all those people within siptu who have stood for election for years without getting anywhere will just leave it now and join a new union committed to putting our priorities first, and not interested in 'respectability' and the trappings of power.

by Rank and Filer - SIPTU Tue Aug 24, 2004 14:21

It seems to me there are two issues here. The first is the attack on the IWU members in Dublin Bus.
All trade unionists should defend these workers, and I know that individual members of both the NBRU and SIPTU are outraged by managements actions and the obvious collusion of their unions.Instead of taking the legal road to vindicate there rights ,I would urge those suspended to appeal to the members of both NBRU and SIPTU over the heads of their leaders. This workforce has a great record of supporting people in these circumstances. Years ago they told their unions to F..k off and supported train drivers pickets during a separate dispute for union recognition.
The other issue is if we should be supporting the setting up of a new union because the exsisting ones are so in hock to patnership and the bosses.?

My undertanding is that in CIE the IWU have very few members yet are looking for formal recognition from the company.My question is if they have the support of many drivers why hasnt there been a walk out or some form of protest in response to this attack.?


I know a few activists in the CIE company and as decent Trade unionists they are supporting the IWU people against the management,BUT they are also adamently opposed to the setting up of a new union.

They argument is that if those who want to challenge the union leadership cannot win a majority of drivers in either union to their position then simply setting up another structure is not really dealing with the issue;ie how do you win the majority to fight ?
Most new unions end up after a period of time behaving just as the exsisting unions do; is setting up a new union the answer to the problems that face trade union activists?


The NBRU was after all a new radical breakaway from the old ITGWU. Within a short period of time it was scabbing on the ITGWU in a tit for tat inter union dispute.

More recently when the ILDA tried for a new union they (NBRU) oganised a scabbing operation. At least the ILDA had well over 50% of train drivers supporting them. Do the IWU have anything like this?
Despite these questions I feel we should suport workers right to choose a union they want, I would be worried where this is going to lead to. If Harney gets the transport job the CIE group of workers will need all the unity they can muster. An inter union dispute will do no one any good.

by Jonah Tue Aug 24, 2004 15:14

R&F makes some good points and I'm glad to see that he, or she, for one does not see a contradiction between being loyal to one's union and being loyal to workers outside of it.

As a former member of SIPTU who has since left and joined the IWU a number of people have put the same arguments you put to me. It's a small union, weak, might just end up like SIPTU, dividing the union movement and so on.

In regards to the last, the only thing that will divide the union's response to Minister Brennan's proposals on breaking up CIE and part-privatising Dublin Bus is if SIPTU and the NBRU cave in to him, not if the IWU continue to oppose it.

But against those arguments advanced for not joining a new union, some good, some bad, was my cardinal reason for leaving SIPTU. Simply put, I was embarassed to be a SIPTU member.

I was disgusted that my money supported a Union that signed a no industrial action deal with Connex over the LUAS; backed social partnership which is something I believe immensely damaging to the interests of workers; backed down in industrial action over CIE in defiance of rank and file SIPTU; backed the Nice Treaty, both times, and supports a European Union based on the interests of international capital; has a very dubious attitude to internal democracy and the implementation of motions passed at Conference level; funds a Labour party committed to being Fine Gael's mudflap; pays its bureaucrats and leadership what are frankly obscene amounts of money; and at a selfish level, was an extremely poor representative for my fellow employees and I.

I joined the IWU because I was ashamed to be a member of SIPTU. It might be a small union, but it's an honest one, a principled one, its politics on issues like social partnership are closer to my own and I'm not ashamed to be a member. I'm proud to be a trade union member again, and that's worth leaving SIPTU for.

This should not be an attack on individual SIPTU members btw. I know many good activists, true radicals and socialists within SIPTU fighting the good fight. I just think they are poorly served by the organisation they are members of.

by Ronnie the rebel Sat Sep 04, 2004 03:59

After what Dublin Bus did to the workers from the IWU, the last thing that should have happened was industrial action. The fact that none took place is a good sign it means that the IWU is not simply a reactionary group of people BUT a law abiding union.
Dublin Bus would have loved them to do something illegal this would have vindicated their actions.
As for demanding negotiating rights this is another smokescreen, the IWU have the right to represent their members within Dublin Bus in ALL matters except negotiations for terms and conditions of employment and wages
The IWU are not trying to "force" "trick" "cajole" "confuse" or do anything else to make those poor misunderstood managers and executives in Dublin Bus negotiate with them in matters they are not obliged to by law.
The law is very clear about the obligations of employers towards their employees union affiliation and Dublin Bus are breaking the law, BUT even worse is the fact they are a state body so it is being done on behalf of the minister of transport and therefore the government. Strange that one government minister issues the licence for a trade union so the government recognises the right of the IWU to represent it's members but a minister in the same goverment refuses to recognise the IWU's right to represent it's members.
The two other unions involved SIPTU and NBRU have simply proved they are NOT really unions at all but simply businesses who's main aim is to protect their revenues and if that means workers are abused or mistreated then thats tought on the workers, if this was not the case they would be standing up for the rights of those workers instead of boasting that they have been "got". I have personally asked a member of the executive of NBRU why they do not support the right of workers to belong to the union of their choice, the answer was "they already have a choice siptu or us and thats all the choice they are going to have" until those unions start behaving like real unions their members should withold their subscriptions from them.
The managers in Dublin Bus who have broken the law and mistreated their employees should be sacked, I believe they are the employee relations manager and the operations manager who both aparrently "acted like a pack of wolves"
The employee relations manager is going on a junket to Australia soon to tell all the other people in HR how he does a wonderful job here in Dublin Bus.
Perhaps they should be told how he really behaves and the contempt he has for the employees whose welfare is in his hands.

Just ask yourselves this, if the company are treating workers this way and the two unions the company insist must represent all bus drivers will not even try to stop them is it really any wonder the company will just break laws, agreements, and anything else they want to including the constitution to enable them to bully and victimise drivers into doing whatever they want them to legal or illegal, safe or unsafe, what choice do these workers have?
If this was happening to a group of workers in a third world country there would be an uproar in this country about it so what about supporting OUR rights and making our employers obey the laws of the land.

by bus worker Sat Sep 04, 2004 04:13

Please take a look at that link.