Why? and what can be done?

by Seán - sap Wed Jun 08, 2005 17:10

Well said Davy. Although the problem of tackling suicide is very complex something has to be done and fast. What about a local campaign or meetings to discuss the issue. As a young person form west belfast i no how it is to feel alienated. There is a strong sense of communty in west belfast but the younger generation and others are becoming increasingly marginalised. Constant harasement and abuse is thrown at the youth in W.Belfast. If your not being harassed by police then your being harassed by provies(a strange alliance but sure wel say nothing). But no one ever bothers to ask why young people do certain things. The fact is there is FUCK ALL TO DO and if your not conforming to the "struggle" way of thinking then your not part of the communitty. Theres no help from the state etheir. Over 10% of the population of W.Belfast is unemployed and funding for just about everthing is just non existent

by Davy Carlin - Street Seen Wed Jun 08, 2005 17:31 carlindavid at hotmail dot com 0777 405 3223

Sean I will drop you an e -mail if you don't mind - and we can meet up to chat about various issues - I am sure we can lend support to the various activists already involved in this.

Talk to you soon. All the best - Davy Carlin

by John Wed Jun 08, 2005 18:11

The best way to reduce suicides would be to encourage religious belief and promote the economic model that involves low taxation, less government interference and less reliance on welfare (commonly known as the Anglo-Saxon economic model). Encouraging people to be independent and stand on their own feet has been proven to be one of the most efffective ways of discouraging suicidal tendencies. Likewise encouraging belief in God. The countries with by far the highest rates of suicide, around 30 deaths per 100,000 population annually are the former socialist countries of eastern Europe such as Latvia, Ukraine, Hungary. During the era of socialism and officially-promulgated atheism suicide rates in these countries soared to levels unmatched anywhere else in the world. Since the demise of socialism suicide rates in these countries have come down somewhat, but are still about 2.5 times on average the rate in English-speaking countries (including Ireland). The next worst group of countries for suicide are the high-tax social democratic countries of northern Europe, such as Finland, Denmark, France anf Germany. In these countries the suicide rate is around 20 deaths per 100,000 population annually. Then come the English-speaking countries: Ireland, England, Scotland, N. Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the USA. All these countries have very similar suicide rates, either just above or just below 12 deaths per 100,000 population annually. The Rep Ireland is in the middle of this group of English-speaking countries with a sucide rate of about 12 deaths per 100,000, but N. Ireland has the second lowest (after England) suicide rate of this group with a suicide rate of 9 deaths per 100,000. The countries with the lowest suicide rates are the traditionally Catholic/Orthodox countries of southern Europe: Spain, Italy, Malta, Greece. In these countries the rate is around 6 deaths per 100,000 population annually. There is nothing in these figures to suggest socialism helps to reduce the suicide rate. Neither is there anything to suggest that the Celtic Tiger has caused an increase in suicide. Suicide doubled in the Rep Ireland between the late 1970s and the early 1990s, a time of low growth, high taxation and high unemployment. Prior to this the suicide rate in the Rep Ireland was almost the lowest in the world. How much the increase during this time was due to the poor economic environment and how much was due to the decline in religious belief is an interesting question which I do not have the answer to. Fortunately, since the mid 1990s there has been no further increase in the suicide rate and figures for the most recent years show the suicide rate in the Rep Ireland is now lower than in 1997, the year the FF/PD Government came to power. It isn't at all clear why N. Ireland in particular has come to be seen in the media as a suicide blackspot. It actually has one of the lowest suicide rates in the world, about 25 per cent lower than in the Rep ireland. Only England and the traditionally Catholic/Orthodox countries mentioned above have lower suicide rates than N. Ireland. For those interested, the suicide rate in Cuba is about 15 per 100,000 population, almost double that of N. Ireland. There are doubtless many who read this site who believe that capitalism is a major cause of suicide. Perhaps they will tell us why suicide rates in socialist countries have always been far higher than in capitalist ones. You can find comprehensive figures for the numbers and rates of suicide in virtually every country in the world in the WHO mortality database.

by Paul - adrift in Asia Wed Jun 08, 2005 19:42

Be very wary of suggesting a direct link between capitalism and suicide - either as cause or effect. In fairness, I don't think Davy was suggesting that it was that straight-forward, and the solution originally stated in John's post really was more about faith than economics.

It seems to me that suicide is the stop after desparation. That desparation can be attributed to the oppression of a stalinist society (John) or the oppression of the marginalised in capitalist society (Davy). The common factor is the feeling of not having any options, any relief or even the prospect of any healing.

Anything that offers people hope is a good thing - that can be a religion. It can be, as John points out, the chance of being able to get back into work and the psychological wellbeing that comes from having a more secure economic situation. Or it can be the sense of being part of something that's fighting to improve the world. In my time as an activist, one thing that kept being brought up was the sense of being lifted up that people feel when they find out that they really can be part of changins something, be it fighting for something small in the community or standing up to a larger-than-life demon like racism, poverty, war, etc.

We can argue the toss about whether capitalism is better or worse than other systems at causing/alleviating depression, but it's a worthless debate, because it paints people as passive victims of history, rather than living, breathing individuals who interact with their environment. Whether your weekly read is Forbes or Socialist Worker, that's a grave error to make.

Paul

PS As well as the above, never underestimate the power of a kind word to someone who is low.

by Paul - adrift in Asia Wed Jun 08, 2005 19:43

That should be "cause or cure" in the first line. That will teach me to properly preview before publishing!

by tom Fri Jun 10, 2005 18:53

Thanks for raising this issue again Davey .Suicides in poor ,working- class areas in Dublin are not reported . Where I live ,you see the funerals every week ;you talk to people who have been devastated by suicide in the family; you hear reports about other suicides ;but you don't get any written reports in the papers or see any local statistics.
I know there's a question of sensitivity to those left bereaved ,but I don't think that the media keeps silent over suicide to spare the feelings of family members. That same media never cares about the pain felt by relatives of murdered bank robbers or drug dealers .
The near media black-out on the subject is in my opinion close to saying that some peoples' lives are not worth a mention.
A friend of mine told me that over half the people from her class at school had either died from drug overdoses or from suicide over the years. Perhaps the papers just don't like to point things like that out in case it spoils the image they have nurtured of Ireland : that it's a rich , care free country where it's fun to be young.

by toneore Fri Jun 10, 2005 21:03 toneore at eircom dot net

I guess if I was living in West Belfast under the jackboot of Sinn Fein/IRA I'd feel suicidal too. Here we have a classic example of a community, that instead of benefiting its young people benefiting from the celtic tiger, in fact has been oppressed and excluded from progress because of the slavemasters in Sinn Fein/IRA. Hey, why better your lives when you can live in despair, ready to riot at the drop of Alex Maskey's hat when the "peelers" come searching for murderers?
Like Blacks in US Ghettos, it's time for people in West Belfast to move on past this Most Oppressed People Ever Syndrome and throw off the chains of their leaders who get rich off their misery. Screw Sinn Fein/IRA - turn protestant, vote Fianna Fail, and culture jam those dumb ass terrorist murals now!

by Nordie Fri Jun 10, 2005 21:17

Yup, you can't move in the north these days for Fianna Fail offices.

by The Irish Association of Suicidology Sat Jun 25, 2005 20:39 094 –9250858.

An art exhibition which was created by twelve patients of St Mary's Hospital, Castlebar was officially opened by An Tanaiste, Minister Mary Harney, TD, last Thursday. Later that evening, the Minister opened the new building which has become the home of the Irish Association of Suicidology (IAS) on New Antrim Street, Castlebar.
During her visit, The Tanaiste gave people an insight into her personal life when she spoke of a friend who committed suicide.
A large crowd gathered in the former dining hall of St Mary’s Hospital which is to close in September for the launch of the art exhibition. A magnificent room, which is now to be a main hall as part of Castlebar GMIT was prepared for the occasion with many of the artists were present to welcome the Tanaiste. In a booklet which accompanies the exhibition, Ms Deirdre Walsh, co-ordinator-Art Programme Mental Health and Older People said she returned to Ireland from New York in 1992 and set up the art programme in St Michael's Day Hospital.
“Twelve artists now work in care settings throughout the county providing participants with an opportunity for creative expression. The therapeutic benefits are evident in each setting. People become motivated and develop a greater sense of self-esteem. The creative process contributes to a general sense of well-being."
At the launch, Dr Patricia Noone, Acting Medical Director said this was a celebration of the end of the mental hospital era. The hall where the exhibition is on display accommodated 800 patients for their main meals years ago but is now part of Castlebar GMIT. At its peak, there were over 1,000 patients in the hospital but presently, 45 people would be moving out in September. "We had some of the finest community services in the country here and the staff to match."
The hospital first opened in 1866 and was an asylum with little known about the forms of treatment. The quality of care given was excellent, she added. "This is a fine stone building but is not the best place to provide the proper care, etc.," she concluded.
Minister Harney, addressing the gathering, stated it was a particular pleasure to come to Castlebar as the Minister for Health and Children.
“I hear reference that there were so many patients in St Mary's and it reminds me of darker times in Ireland and PJ Murphy, who co-ordinated the 'Shapshots in Time" photographs from the 1970's, said there were almost 1,100 patients here which was quite incredible. It is a very different place today. That was part of our dark past.”
She added the patients will now move to a new part of the main hospital and the good news is the past in terms of mental health in Mayo has come to an end. The facilities and care that is provided by the doctors and nurses is absolutely fantastic.
Minister Harney said her main purpose in attending the launch was to pay tribute to the patients who were exhibiting their paintings here under the title “My Work”. This is breaking down the barriers of stigma and putting as much funding as possible into making sure as many people as possible are treated in the community is important. "Art has many therapeutic and rehabilitative aspects and the display of talent here gives light to the fact these people have talent. It is fantastic they are being given the chance to express their talent."
“I spend half my time in cabinet meetings doodling and the other half listening. I find it very therapeutic. Some people smoke and other people doodle!”
She added the old St Mary's is now being transformed into a new use for training and education. It is a fine example of an old institution, purposely built which is now being used with a new future in education.
“The GMIT has opened up enormous opportunities for education into the future. Mayo has the highest percentage of people going to university.”
At the opening of the Irish Association of Suicidology An Tanaiste told a personal story of how she was affected by suicide.
“I remember when I left college, one of my closest friends unfortunately rang me the night before she committed suicide but I wasn't at home. She threw herself under a tube in London. To this day I still think of her and it is a very real event and that is going back to 1977. So if a friend does not get over the experience, imagine the effect on a family or loved one or someone in a relationship with the person. All the efforts in society have to be in suicide prevention and in reducing the rate of suicide. It will never be eliminated but in helping to prevent it where we can, reducing it and in doing more research into suicide and heightening awareness.”
An Tainaiste said she was pleased to be present at the opening because of Dr John Connolly's long association as a medical expert in this area and also for the role he has played nationally in assisting in policy formulation in relation to suicide. She said suicide was more in the public domain now than it ever was in the past when it was not acknowledged.
“At least it is more recognised today and that there is more support for families who are left bereaved and wondering and bewildered as a result of suicide. I am delighted to open this facility and I am delighted it is not attached to a psychiatric hospital.”
Mayor of Castlebar, Cllr Johnny Mee said: “I'm old enough to remember — and it is not so long ago — that there was a cloud or veil of secrecy surrounding the whole area of suicide. It is an illness which is now out in the open, people discuss it and people have a better understanding of it which is important. This is a new era in our attitude towards suicide and its problems which causes great trauma for families. This will create an awareness and something can be done about it.”
Other speakers at the opening included Bernard Haddigan, Chairman of the National Suicide Review Group; Canon Paddy Curran PP, Castlebar, who performed the blessing, and IAS Secretary Dr John F. Connolly.
Like the Tanaiste, Canon Curran had a personal story to relate. It concerned what he described as, "one of my worst experiences" twenty five years ago when he got a phone call to his house telling him that a woman's youngest son had hanged himself.
"I will never forget it," Canon Curran said, "all she went through and her family afterwards. I keep in touch with the family all the time. I don’t suppose there is any of us who haven’t experience of something like that."
Blessing the new building, which has been converted for use as a social welfare centre, Canon Curran said: “May the endeavours of all who work here be of assistance to all who are facing suicide and may it comfort and strengthen them. Bless all those families who are suffering and in great distress due to suicide”.
The Irish Association of Suicidology can be contacted on 094 –9250858.