Hamas Wins Palestinian Elections

by !? Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:20

a source for that quotation please.

by pat c Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:24

i hope you will defend womens right not to wear the veil/hijab and that you will oppose the stoning to death of "adulterous" women and gays. i am sure the SWP/IAWM will be picketing the Palestinian Embassy about these issues.

by iosaf Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:02

"hamas the new likud" election blog on Haaretz
with only 60 days to go to their own Israeli elections
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=675451&contrassID=2

Hamas face problems :-

*The first is how are the 135,000 employees of the PA going to get paid. Because the money is transferred from Israel for revenue collected on VAT and excise. And the hints at Davos are that the first leverage to be used will be the wages
http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=6417115&cKey=1138352737000

*Interesting therefore that the Arab League speaking at Davos says Hamas must recognise Israel
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/675205.html

*Hamas was /is an armed party which has never submitted to the Palestinian security forces, may they now form a security force acceptable to Fatah supporters?
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/675491.html

*Netanyahu has declared "the birth of Hamastan"..."in the image of Iran and the Taliban"...."the price of unilateral withdrawl".
Whilst others wonder as perhaps Dave of the swp above has done, if this is the result of American democratisation. Well perhaps it is.
We may look to the Lebanon where hizbollah are now in government.

*keep an eye on bitter lemons for views from both sides
http://www.bitterlemons.org/
*the wikipedia page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_legislative_election,_2006

by Charles B. Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:23

I see that all the reports mention the fact that Hamas are a 'terrorist' group, and that they should 'renounce violence' before they can talk to the 'civilised' nations. But what is the death toll since they won the election. As far as I am aware, they have been responsible for 0 deaths so far, while the Israeli Defence Forces have managed to kill a 9 year old Palestinian girl already. This particular piece of news is just an add on to most reports though. With the news of Palestinian deaths becoming so common, it is deemed almost irrelevant by most media. If a Hamas member had killed a 9 year old Israeli, would this be categorised similarly?
If Hamas are excluded from talks because they don't renounce violence, should they not ask that the Israeli government also do the same, for they are responsible for as much if not more than the democratically mandated Hamas? And then theres the 'Allies' who don't do violence, more like intervention and democracy building etc., but it has pretty much the same effect. They even have 'friendly fire', sheesh.

by redjade Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:56

James Ridgeway writes...
''With Hamas's democratic victory yesterday, the people of Palestine have spoken, and what they want is George Bush's nightmare.

As things now stand, Iran remains under Shiite control. The recent elections in Iraq have resulted in a Shiite-dominated central government there. (That government is almost sure to shrivel as the country breaks into three parts--the southernmost is Shiite, and has control over important oil reserves.) With Hamas in power in the Palestinian territory, there is yet another militant Muslim group with a grip on the wheel of state.

Despite assertions to the contrary by the Bush administration, al Qaeda appears to have grown and spread its operations. The Taliban is once more active in Afghanistan. Where bin Laden was at loggerheads with Saddam Hussein before the war, now al Qaeda has inserted itself into Iraq where it operates with apparently considerable freedom.

All this is coming at a time when reports are showing the American military strained to the breaking point--as if that outcome should have been at all unexpected.''

read the rest at...
http://villagevoice.com/news/0605,ridgeway,71936,6.html

by Shaner - A-FSM Fri Jan 27, 2006 13:30

Given the range of realistic choices open to Palestinian voters, returning Hamas can only be interpreted as a welcome slap to US-Israeli efforts to control the terms of Palestinian 'self-determination' and 'democracy'.

I am a devout atheist, but fuck it, Allahu Akbar!

by frithbheart Fri Jan 27, 2006 13:35

This is his dream come true.

The US and Israel have systematically destroyed the secular Palestinian resistance which for decades sought a peaceful political solution with Israel.

This is the fruition of years of hard work. Now they can do what they want to the Palestinians, who obviously hate freedom, peace, Jews etc etc same old tune.

Just like Al-Qa'ida, the taliban, Saddam etc. Hamas provide exactly what Bush et al need, a baddy to justify their aggression

by Sean Fri Jan 27, 2006 13:45

Anyone know how the Left did. I thought that might be of interest to the SWP but looking at their Respect love in with fundamentalists Im not sure.

by Ruri Fri Jan 27, 2006 13:58

Should be cut off immediately when Hamas-end of story. No economic oxygen for terrorist scum.

For your information, hamasophiles, they absolutely despise you and the civilisation we live in. An increasing number of people are unconfortable with the whole Palestinian sympathy issue, me included.

by iosaf Fri Jan 27, 2006 14:00

is at the link I left to the wikipedia entry on the 2006 legislative elections above. Oh well, here it is again
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_legislative_election,_2006
I've just had a walk around my barrio and bumped into a friend and fellow activist who is recording part of a documentary in the local mosque. So, I took advantage of the opportunity to sneak in and sound out reactions. And for what its worth, the muslim faithful of barcelona's inner city at prayers this morning don't think the result is such a "surprise" at all. Rather it was completely predictable and logical. One very clever soul put it this way :-
"Yussuf (I get called that on occassion) didn't Blair stop your northern ireland parliament because it was democratically moderate? and the peace process was going no where until it was nice and simple. sinn fein and hardline unionists?" & I answered yes- that's political logic, chalk n' cheese. "do you think likud will win the Isreali elections?" : "Oh Allah peace be upon him forbid!"

by Ali H. Fri Jan 27, 2006 14:11

There is a long list of former terrorists who have become leaders of countries. In fact Israel is built on terrorism and many of its leaders including former presidents such as Yitzhak Shamir were in fact terrorists. It is therefore ironic to hear ritual bleating about Hamas being terrorists from such quarters, especially when Israel helped to found Hamas with the specific aim of undermining the PLO. They have now succeeded fully in that aim and now claim they don't want anything to do with the organisation they helped to create. If they were so "concerned" about a Hamas victory they would have liberated Marwan Barghouti who would have attracted the Palestinian popular vote. The fact is that the Israelis really want to act unilaterally and have no interest in peace, and therefore the Hamas victory suits them just fine. Plus ca change ...........

by Noel Fri Jan 27, 2006 14:22

"Anyone know how the Left did"

It's a pertinent question Sean.
In it's blind deference to anti-Israel and anti-Americanism the left has found it's bedfellows to be Hamas and Al-Queda.
A rethink on lockstep support for these murderers is long overdue.

by Bolshi Fri Jan 27, 2006 14:41

As a previous poster pointed out any attempt at secular resistance by the Palestinians was undermined by the Israelis. They have been pushed into voting for Hamas due to the lack of any viable alternatives once Arafat had been murdered.

by io Fri Jan 27, 2006 14:59

For one if you go to the link i've left twice now you'll see how many votes the left got. But of course you don't need to. Its all over the world's media. The left won.
But you're not seeing it that way. You're seeing the religion. You're seeing "islamists won" not that the party which has organised the most charitable interests in the palestinian territories, the most health centres, the most orphanages and schools. The party that vowed to end the corruption of fatah, the party that fought an election (that was almost sabotaged C/f http://www.bitterlemons.org/issue/pal1.php )
That ye can't see that is no surprise. You might as well argue the Israelis were "forced" to vote for Likud because of Hamas. Or that people in ulster are forced to vote SF or DUP. So ask where is the left in northern ireland or the basque?
answer : there are left parties on both sides of the political or ethnic or social divide and armed struggles too. Do people vote for "armed struggle" or "left policies"? The truth is they have never had to vote for armed struggles. They are inherently non-democratic. So, the challenge to Hamas is to be a proper political party a bit like hizbollah not too far away. Because The iranian rhetoric will not bring water to Gaza.
And without water no good food will be grown, and the palestinians will go on relying on customs and excise income collected for them by Israel or grant assistance from the EU.

by Weso Fri Jan 27, 2006 15:03

This country and most of its people are evil and hypocrits of the highest order. They try to control and force the world into taking their side when they are in the total wrong. Most people see them as the oppressors and in the total wrong and nothing they do or say or whing about will ever change that. They have no real ambitions about giving the palestinians a fair and right deal. They are greedy and want all the land for themselves and want to pen all the palestinians into small crappy land.. They will be glad about Hamas winning cause they can now do what they want. The whole arab world should rise up again and defeat this monster...

by TheTroll Fri Jan 27, 2006 15:57

The last (and first) time Palestinians were allowed to vote, they chose the appease Zionism route by voting for Fatah. And Zionists continued to steal palestinians lands and continued to murder the Palestinians who resisted as well as Palestinians in the wrong place, as defeined by the ZIonist crusaders.

Now, Palestinians have chosen NOT to appease the offense of Zionism destroying Palestinian lives and lifes. And ZIonists continue to steal palestinians lands and continue to murder the Palestinians who resist, as well as Palestinians in the wrong place. Even 9 year old children.

Zionist occupation of Palestine is no more equatable to peace than Nazi occupation of Czech lands could be. And interloaper appeasment of the Zionist's war of conquest doesn't change that fact any more than interloaper appeasment of of nazi offenses against Czechoslovakia would.

With the idolotry of democracy in play, interloaper power brokers can no longer deny that thier support of Zionism is anything other than the offense we all already knew it to be. Palestine is not ours to give to Zionists or anyone else for that matter. Interloapers like the idea that thier opinion means something other than a desire to have the offensive authority of Satan. It doesn't.

Simply stated, Zionists have no birthright of murderous theft of Palestinian lands. They never had such a birthright, even with interloaper appeasment and support. For interloapers to deny Palestinians thier right to self determination is an offense. Supporting the offense of Zionism gives people all over the world the oportunity to commit offensive sin against thier palestinian neighbors. Enjoy hell for embracing the power of Satan.

by Colm - ISN personal capacity Fri Jan 27, 2006 17:31

Dave's article is interesting and gives an insight into the SWP's general position on Islamist movements, though I certainly would disagree with some of his points. Just to keep the debate on an informed level I've dug up the detailed results as follows, giving the results achieved by each list that participated in the election for the 172 seat parliament, with a short explanation of which forces were involved:

1. The Alternative (28,779 votes, 2.8% of the total vote, 2 seats): This was an alliance of the secular left including the marxist Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the former communists of the Peoples Party and the small centre left Democratic Union.

2. Change and Reform (434,817 votes, 43.0% of the total vote, 76 seats): This is the name adopted by Hamas, the main Islamist movement, for the election. The smaller Islamic Jihad group boycotted the election.

3. Fatah Movement (403,458 votes, 39.9% of the total vote, 43 seats): Fatah is the secular nationalist movement formed by Yasser Arafat. Fatah has dominated the Palestinian Authority since the Oslo Accord.

4. Independent Palestine (26,554 votes, 2.6% of the total vote, 2 seats): This was a list based around the Palestinian National Initiative party of Dr. Mustafa Barghouti, mainly composed of left-leaning community activists and intelllectuals.

5. Martyr Abu Ali Mustafa (41,671votes, 4.1% of the total vote, 3 seats): This was the electoral list of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, a left-nationalist movement that was one of the most prominent and militant factions of the PLO in the seventies.

6. The Third Way (23,513 votes, 2.3% of the total vote, 2 seats): This was the list of liberal/democratic independents led by one of Palestine's most well known female politicians Hanan Ashrawi.

7. Others (53,200 votes, 5.3% of the total vote, 4 seats) These are all independents.

While its clear that Hamas has done very well, for a variety of reasons, not least the terrible and on-going pressure on the every-day lives of Palestinian people caused by the occupation, it should be noted that even under these circumstances a clear majority of Palestinians (57%) voted for secular parties.

by shepherd smith - "why dont catholics and protestants live in peace?" Fri Jan 27, 2006 17:49

"well we have a situation here where Fatah voters voted for Hamas but they didn't really want Hamas they wanted more Fatah".

aint that Great? Best election comment shite yet. Even better than the explanation they offered on 75% abstention in the Venezuelan elections "people are just plain tired of voting you could call it voter fatigue thats normal in democracy".

Anyway, I must admit I'm fatigued. I've been to a mosque, watched the regions telly, seen numerous academics & specialists interviewed, read the euro-press, chatted on the phone with expert acquaintances and contacts, "real live muslims and jews" & come to this conclusion -

"what Hamas have to do now" is "change name".

They can then disown the armed struggle.
With a "democratic elected" ex-Hamas in government and a "nothing to do with Hamas at all probably Mossad spies" armed wing out of government they'll have it all sorted in no time.
Thank god we don't have this problem in ireland, imagine the woe you'd have if people didn't recognise the state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_legislative_election,_2006

by Roger Cole Fri Jan 27, 2006 18:38 silchester at riecom dot net 52 Silchester Park 01-2844765

There was a fair, free and democratic election in the occupied territories of Palestine and the supporters of democracy have to accept the result.
Since the Oslo accord Israel kept on expanding its colonies in the West Bank and East Jerusalem rather that seeking a settlement based on a two state solution and there are now 450,00 illegal Israeli colonisers in the occupied territory and any visitor to the occupied territory, like myself ,in seeing the way the Palestinians are treated by the Israeli's are not suprised by the result.
It is up to the Palestinians to elect their own leaders. The role of Irish people that are opposed to Imperialism and colonialism it to call for the end of the occupation of Palestine, just as we call for the end of the occupation of Iraq or other occupied countries like Ireland

by avi H. Fri Jan 27, 2006 18:43

has just been voted in democratically. What a slap in the face for the Jews! I am sure that most posters will approve of these new Nazis and hope that they murder all those Jewish scum who just want to live peacefully and unmolested - the nerve of it.

by pat c Fri Jan 27, 2006 18:49

The role of the people of Ireland is also to stand up for Womens Rights and Gay Rights. If Hamas try and impose Islamic "Law" then I hope that Fatah and the PFLP will rise up against them. I would really love to see some of the Hamas "Religious" Police come face to face with armed PFLP & Fatah Women.

Down with Islamic Fundamentalism!

by knackered Fri Jan 27, 2006 19:30

["With the Islamic Jihad, you know where you stand.

They want you dead.

It's part of a worldwide movement of wanting you dead. They take orders from people in Damascus who want you dead, people in Tehran who want you dead, people south of Beirut who want you dead.

With Hamas, knowing where you stand is less cut and dried. With infinitely more support, personnel, sitzfleisch, than the Jihad, with more ideological independence, and a network of free medical clinics and free schools, it almost makes you wonder about the Death to Israel and Death to America and the second graders they dress up and parade around in fatigues and miniature M-16's and garlands of plastic grenades.
Now as Hamas prepares to enter the Palestinian parliament, and perhaps the cabinet, it's time to ask - Will the real Hamas please stand up?"]

Its got over 300 replies an interesting thread.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=674299&contrassID=2

by G Fri Jan 27, 2006 19:40

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=107&ItemID=9604

The Sharon era brought this on and now I'm afraid there will be yet more bloodshed.

by Noel Fri Jan 27, 2006 19:46

Avi,

The most shocking thing about the election of Hamas is the reports that it was a shocking result.

The Palestinians want to destroy Israel - the world cannot hide from this all too obvious truth.
Luckily, the security barrier is intact, a basic necessity with Hamas and all it's followers living next door.

by redjade Sat Jan 28, 2006 00:16

The mood was disaster-in-progress when the unflappable Jimmy Carter stepped into the room yesterday to share a few quiet moments with the Toronto Star.

[....]

Ten years ago, Carter himself sat down with Hamas in an attempt to bridge the gap between PLO chief Yasser Arafat and the then-fledgling militant Islamic group.

As a personal favour to the late Palestinian leader, and in the spirit of the newly minted Oslo Accords, Carter went hunting for Hamas, to lasso them into the political process.

"Arafat asked me if I would contact Hamas and see if they would accept the new government with him as president, and to find out what their demands might be," Carter said.

A series of meetings ensued with various Hamas leaders in the Israeli-occupied territories, and Carter initially found himself confounded by the multi-headed hydra of leadership, Hamas-style. But some of those he spoke to showed interest.

Even 10 years ago, there were indications Hamas might be ready to make the great leap forward into reason and rationality — and perhaps even to accept Israel as its legitimate partner in a future that would become two states living side by side.

Finally, a secret summit was arranged for Cairo involving every voice that mattered to Hamas. And just as Carter was preparing for the flight to Egypt, Hamas called it off.

"They cancelled the meeting. Either they decided no, or they decided I wasn't the right person. But they cancelled," said Carter.

"That's the way it was then. Clearly there was no discernable person who could speak on behalf of Hamas and I'm not sure there is yet."

Carter didn't rule out modern-day disaster in the 17 minutes and 29 seconds he gave the Star yesterday. But he would like everyone to take a deep breath and consider an opposite scenario. To his way of thinking, any notion of peace was already a political fiction long before Hamas came calling. Maybe, just maybe, confronted with the reality of responsibility, Hamas will be the one to awaken it.

read the rest at...
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0127-07.htm

by Ali H. Sat Jan 28, 2006 09:41

Palestinians voted for Hamas because there was no credible alternative, mainly thanks to the Israelis. There is much more basis for calling the Israeli leadership Nazis than there is for calling Hamas Hitler & Co.

Remember that Israel has race laws, actively discriminates against non-Jews and has been pursuing a lebensraum policy of ethnic cleansing, ghettoisation and state-sanctioned murder against the Palestinians since the Israeli state came into existance on the back of a prolonged campaign of terror against Palestinian civilians by Jewish gunmen.

Hamas have never been in power and will have to be judged by what they do, not by rhetoric. The Palestinian people have judged them for their grassroots activism much in the same way that Sinn Fein have built their following from the ground up in the North.

The Palestinians will no doubt be just as contemptuous of partisan attempts to brand Hamas as people in Ireland are of attempts to brand Sinn Fein.

In fact if Ireland is anything to go by the effect will be the opposite and will further galvanise the Hamas position, just as the Israeli and American non-engagement with Fatah and continued plantation of stolen land in the West Bank with settlers from Brooklyn did.

The ball is now clearly in the Israeli court as Hamas have clearly stated that they want clarification on Palestinian independence, the right to return of 700,000 Palestinians and their descendents ethnically cleansed from their homes by Jewish terrorists etc.

by Noel Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:16

"There is much more basis for calling the Israeli leadership Nazis than there is for calling Hamas Hitler & Co. "

There was a successful Hamas candidate called Hitler.
I can't imagine why a Palestinian would be called Hitler?
It can't be anything to do with the Palestinian desire to murder Jews.
That's just Mossad propaganda.

As for Hamas' future - they are now aware; as were Israel and the US and I suspect Fatah, that they must renounce their charter calling for the destruction of Israel and renounce violence or the begging bowl will be empty with a fortnight.
Game set and match to Israel yet again.

by Fedayeen Sat Jan 28, 2006 16:04

Heres an excellent article on the Hamas victory by Lebanese leftist and respected Middle East commentator, Gilbert Achar:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=107&ItemID=9607

by avi H. Sat Jan 28, 2006 19:46

They have no viable economy. (They're dependent on handouts from the EU, the US and the UN and employment in ISRAEL!). They have a media that spews out Jew-hate 24/7. They have a young generation that has been through the Fatah/Hamas indoctrination camps. They have a general population that has been totally militarised by Mr neo/Revolutionary/ex KGB stooge/I both hands in the till/died of aids because I kept humping my bodyguards Arafat. They have no mature political culture. They have a democractic election process and institutions imposed on them from outside. They have a corrupt dominant religion - Islam is a death cult - not a religion. They have been manipulated and fucked over by the rest of the Arab world, kept in poverty and 'refugee camps' deliberately for generations now. Finally, they don't even have a state. What they have is a failed state. Like Somalia, only at least Somalia was a state once. The Palestinians never even got there: they failed before they started. Finally, they have the rage and shame to be next to the ultra-powerful state of Israel with all its technological and cultural achievements.

What is the greatest Palestinian achievement? Rage and shame? The suicide bomber? Puleeze !

by Ali H. Sun Jan 29, 2006 16:34

"They have no viable economy."

Denying people a livelyhood is not something most people would brag about.
And in any case Israel is reliant on handouts from the US to the tune of billions of
$ annually from the Americans.

"They have a media that spews out Jew-hate 24/7. They have a young generation that has been
through the Fatah/Hamas indoctrination camps."

Palestinians did not simply wake up one morning and say "I hate Israelis, kill, kill, kill".
Israel does a much more effective job of radicalising young Palestinians than Hamas does
and has done so since it began its campaign of terror and ethnic cleansing against them
more than half a century ago.

"They have a general population that has been totally militarised"

All Israeli males have obligatory military service. You cant get any more militarised
than this. On the other hand the number of Palestinians involved in the military is low
and any case they don't have the weapons to arm all of those who are.

"Mr neo/Revolutionary/ex KGB stooge/I both hands in the till/died of aids because I kept
humping my bodyguards Arafat."

There is no evidence to support any of this.

"They have no mature political culture. They have a democractic election process and
institutions imposed on them from outside."

You can't have it both ways. They complied with our rules and now you condemn them
because you don't like the result.

"They have a corrupt dominant religion - Islam is a death cult - not a religion."

This is as insulting to Muslims as anti-semitic rants would be to Jews.

"They have been manipulated and fucked over by the rest of the Arab world, kept in poverty
and 'refugee camps' deliberately for generations now."

Israel saw to this by invading Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon in order to ensure all Palestinians
remained in misery.

"Finally, they don't even have a state. What they have is a failed state.
Like Somalia, only at least Somalia was a state once.
The Palestinians never even got there: they failed before they started."

Again Israel has seen to it that Palestinians never had a chance to establish their
own state for over half a century. Your point if you can call it that is to say effectively
that the Israelis have been very effective in denying them statehood by all means fair or foul.

This is not something a civilised nation ought to brag about.

"Finally, they have the rage and shame to be next to the ultra-powerful state of
Israel with all its technological and cultural achievements."

Exactly what technological and cultural achievements.

Stealing the plans for the A-bomb and creating a nuclear arsenal of 300-400 nukes?

Perhaps the cultural renaissance of the centre of Jenin thanks to Yogi the drunken D9
bulldozer driver?

"What is the greatest Palestinian achievement?"

It is to have survived the Israeli onslaught of ethnic cleansing and murder and lived to tell the tale, much as
holocaust survivors did.

by avi H. Sun Jan 29, 2006 18:07

Look at the Hamas charter and tell me whether Hamas is not just a reincarnation of Nazism in Islamic dress. For example, these extracts are informative:

"Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors."

our struggle against the Jews is extremely wide-ranging and grave

The Islamic Resistance Movement draws its guidelines from Islam; derives from it its thinking, interpretations and views about existence, life and humanity; refers back to it for its conduct; and is inspired by it in whatever step it takes.

Its ultimate goal is Islam, the Prophet its model, the Koran its Constitution.

There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time(27), an exercise in futility.

I swear by that who holds in His Hands the Soul of Muhammed! I indeed wish to go to war for the sake of Allah! I will assault and kill, assault and kill, assault and kill (told by Bukhari and Muslim(44)).

The Muslim women have a no lesser role than that of men in the war of liberation; they manufacture men [ ! ] and play a great role in guiding and educating the [new] generation.

Hamas is calling upon the Arab and Islamic peoples to act seriously and tirelessly in order to frustrate that dreadful scheme and to make the masses aware of the danger of coping out of the circle of struggle with Zionism. Today it is Palestine and tomorrow it may be another country or other countries. For Zionist scheming has no end, and after Palestine they will covet expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates. Only when they have completed digesting the area on which they will have laid their hand, they will look forward to more expansion, etc. Their scheme has been laid out in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, [ A NOTORIOUS, ANTI-SEMITIC TSARIST FORGERY ] and their present [conduct] is the the best proof of what is said there

Leaving the circle of conflict with Israel is a major act of treason and it will bring curse on its perpetrators.

The time(16) will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: 0 Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!

by Barry - 32 csm Sun Jan 29, 2006 23:15

http://b4.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id...32csm

by hs Mon Jan 30, 2006 01:31

Its long but worth the read

Israel/Palestine: Political earthquake strikes as Hamas wins landslide
Hamas victory a blow to imperialism and capitalism in the Middle East

http://www.socialistworld.net/

by pat c Mon Jan 30, 2006 14:10

i expected better from the 32 CSM. welcoming the victory of islamic fundamentalists who want to impose sharia law and put women in hijabs. you might have n
mentioned that secular parties won 57% of the vote. does this mean that you will support hamas (43 %) against fatah (40%) and pflp(5%)?

by io Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:57

in which Khalid Mish'al, head of the political bureau of Hamas argues that the Palestinians are amongst the best educated and politicised voters in the world, and that thus their mass approval of a near declaration of war on the Western Alliance which tells them whats good for them was really "very very clever".

read it:-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1698420,00.html

by sharon the undead Tue Jan 31, 2006 14:32

read the statement from Hamas at the link immediately above http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1698420,00.html
then go here and read the Bush 2002 speech on Palestinian statehood
http://indymedia.ie/article/68480?&condense_comments=fa...14855
try and figure out how Hamas can juggle their ideologies and ensure the 135,000 workers of the Palestinian authority get their wages this weekend.
http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=14...21000
then wait around here http://www.phillyimc.org/or/2006/01/18713.shtml for the wonderful dudes & dudettes of philly to get on the street reaction to the "State of the Union U. S. of A" speech tonight by the supreme wookie. Or come back to the newswire late tonight / early this morning to learn how Bush "failed his first and only test" C/F http://indymedia.ie/article/67338 and how he's going to explain it to the telly viewer in the back arse of bible belt obesity mall land, and of course how it will be regurgitated tomorrow morning as "significant" in your local commerical press. meanwhile the palestinians will start to go
hungry (spellt H-u-n-g-r-y) for having
_embraced democracy_
electing a _new leadership_
_tackling institutional corruption_
but somehow voting for the wrong people.
Please remember he said he would see established two neighbouring democratic states (one called Palestine and the other Israel) before the end of his second term.
He also won the war on Iraq. & he left no school child behind. & he paved the way for climate change to be finally recognised as proved by the new type of car advert we all enjoy. & we don't worry about the Koreans anymore. & poverty is historic as well as Oil being cheap. And above us all sweet jesus meek and mild smiles on the US pensioner who knows no mercy killing will end that life, but that bad people get the electric chair-.

by avi H. Tue Jan 31, 2006 16:55

has now become 'Der Stuermer' and is a mouthpiece for terrorists. Goebbels would have loved it.

Yes, according to KM in the Guardian, Hamas doesn't hate ALL Jews - only the Jews that resist it. Why can't we just surrender and then there won't be any problem ?? Islam has been so nice to Jews down through the ages.

NOT !!!!

by Sideshowbob Tue Jan 31, 2006 17:57

Avi, Can you tell me the difference between the IDF and Hamas???

by Ali H. Tue Jan 31, 2006 18:23

Jamal Abu Roub who according to some sources is known by the nickname "Hitler" is a leader of the militant Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades NOT Hamas as some would have us believe.

One could be mistaken for thinking that someone who maintains the Guardian is anti-semitic is "away with the fairies".

Finally somebody who believes in the Bible calling people who believe in the Koran intolerant is frankly hilarious. The Bible is anti-female, anti-gay and anti just about every freedom we take for granted. So much for Bible-bashers being the defenders of democracy etc.

by avi H. Tue Jan 31, 2006 18:48

The difference between the two is that Hamas never called off a raid because it might cause civilian casualties.

Now, for the usual responses. Here, let me save you the trouble: F-16s, Palestinian children, war crimes, Sabra & Chatila, Nuclear Weapons, Ariel Sharon, etc. etc. I'm getting too old for this...

by Topper Tue Jan 31, 2006 19:14

Yes, yes, Avi, the Nazis would have LOVED the Guardian, its anti-racist politics and commitment to democracy would have suited them just fine (everybody just smile and nod, humour the lunatic, he'll go away)

Are there any defenders of Israel posting on this site who aren't totally nuts? Who are willing to make some concessions to reality? Honestly, it'd be nice to get some people who don't live in a fantasy world every once in a while

by .:. Tue Jan 31, 2006 21:53

But the region has always interested us. So two link to Israeli blogs which published at the time of the elections have continued to garner comments on the website of Haaretz the Israeli commercial daily of record. These links are above, but links get overlooked quickly on account of their pretty colours.
"Hamas the New Likud"
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=6...sID=2
"do Hamas still want you dead? With the Islamic Jihad, you know where you stand. They want you dead. It's part of a worldwide movement of wanting you dead. They take orders from people in Damascus who want you dead, people in Tehran who want you dead, people south of Beirut who want you dead....."
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=6...sID=2
with 315 comments approved and countless trolls deleted.

here's the text of the first draft legislation for US Congress on "measures to be taken to disuade a Hamas led Palestinian Authority" (my "inverted commas")
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/rosnerBlog.jhtml?ite...&art=>#article677132

Considering who's in Congress right now, these proposals will provide the smudged "tabula rasa" for the US lawmakers at least. Because as we know they give less money to those Arabic people than we do, and their main assistance to the other lot is arms.

Bitter Lemons {the only website to offer two parallel opinions to the peoples of Jerusalem / Al Qods on a weekly basis} have published their Hamas Election victory edition.
the links (which will expire in a week are:
Ghassan Khatib : "Dilemas all round"
http://www.bitterlemons.org./issue/pal1.php
Yossir Alpher : "What should Israel do?"
http://www.bitterlemons.org./issue/isr1.php
The burdens of victory by Ali Jarbawi
http://www.bitterlemons.org./issue/pal2.php
Continuation of the conflict by Efraim Inbar
http://www.bitterlemons.org./issue/isr2.php

by The Jackal Sat Feb 04, 2006 21:26

If you go to the British SWP site there latest paper has an interview with a Hamas MP and it is just publish with no criticism of Hamas at all - won't be long before before SWP becomes SMuslimParty.

by sentimentalist - "sorting it out" Sun Feb 05, 2006 19:20

Fatah & Hamas have agreed to convene the assembly on the 16th of February.
"We are starting the process and we are sure that within February we will be able to see a new government," Hamas leader Mahmoud al-Zahar said after his first meeting with President Mahmoud Abbas.

A fatah spokesman, Nabil Abu Rdainah confirmed that Hamas, having won 74 seats in the 132-member legislature and defeated the long dominant Fatah movement, would be chosen to head a new government.

"Hamas is the biggest parliament bloc and they will have to present a name to the president so that the president will ask him officially to form the government," Abu Rdainah said.

Ismail Haniyeh, a Hamas leader who was also at the meeting with Abbas, said Hamas would seek to "speed up formation of the coming government to avoid any constitutional vacuum".

Zahar said Hamas had already asked Abbas' Fatah party to join in a government, but it had not yet given a response.

The Palestinian authority runs on a budget of about $100 million a month. Since the election victory of Hamas, some $55 million of that budget (or 55% for the mathematicians amongst you) has been frozen, as the central bank of Israel has suspended payments of excise and other duties on the frontiers between the occupied territories and Israel as well as the border of Gaza with Egypt.

The revenue is a main source of funding to the Palestinian Authority without which Palestinian officials have said they would lack money to pay 140,000 government employees. Accordingly those workers have not been paid for the first time since the week Arafat went into coma.

"I generally prefer to stand by the agreements we have signed with them (the Palestinian Authority)", Stanley Fischer, the bank governor, told Israel Radio. Israeli interim Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's cabinet was expected to discuss releasing the funds at its weekly session on Sunday, (today) political sources said.

In addition to the taxes collected by Israel The Palestinian Authority receives about $1 billion from international donors, Hamas are quick to point out that Arab states will donate funds to them, but it remains to be seen if the Arab states may make up the shortfall, the second highest donations are made by European states through various entities of both EU and Council of Europe. The States of Norway and Nederlands carrying the largest burden. Most of these funds prop up global markets and many western state bonds. We may recall in the week of Arafat's death, the hope for peace saw the Tel Aviv stock exchange receive a "peace dividend" which has since been sold on. Likewise the PA to rely on continued financial help, must find solvent doners. Iran has due to its conflict over "the right to choose dirty energy and fuck up the environment" has divested from Western markets, the capitalists amongst you might have noted the Nasdaq twitters and wondered at the London spike in reaction to Bush's state of the union speech. It is unclear where exactly the Iranians have put their money. But its not in either Andorra or Switzerland. Check under your mattress.

If Norway pulls it financial help on light of the recent attacks on Norwegian diplomatic missions in the region, the new left wing regime of that country (Norway) faces an internal debate on continued "underwriting" of Palestinian aspirations to statehood. In a surprise development, the USA department of state
whilst reiterating its conditions that Hamas adjust its charter and recognise Israel, last night roundly condemned the republication of 12 cartoons in various European commercial newspapers, which had previously been comissioned by the Danish "nordic troglydyte daily viking racist rag". (Obviously its title is in Danish and looks a bit different). Sources in the "apartheid" state of Israel and occupied territories have assured the author of this comment that the US condemnation was welcomed by moderate elements within both Hamas and Hizbollah and in Damascus. It is hoped that temperatures which have gone so high in the last weeks may now cool down or at least stay at the "managable misery" level everyone seems happy to ignore.

The previous commentator used an interesting nom de plume, "the Jackal" is Ilich Ramírez Sánchez, who came to prominence in the 1960s and 1970s and for many played an easy to understand rôle in the murkier side of the cold war in both Europe and the Middle East. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilich_Ram%C3%ADrez_S%C3%A1...nchez Things were somehow very simple back then. They're not now. It is important to remember that much of the rhetoric to which we are daily exposed proceeded from the "neo-con" Bush regime of the last 5 years reflects a global vision of the generation of Cheney, Rumseld and others. Their prejudices and concepts of both "west" and beyond were shaped by wars and other misadventures and the time of both Sharon and Arafat is now ended. It surprises me not that those of true vision and prudence have not yet condemned a government which has not formally taken power. We will wait and see. But most important of all is the sensibilities and sensitivities of the poorest regardless of what ethnic, religious, social, national, or other background they have.

Saleem = Shalom
Pax = Peace.
fuck brits and protestants and catholics.
boycott Canada and Denmark.
fuck the maharishi and his global peace project.
fuck John Lennon and Yoko Ono.
imagine a world wherevery one fucked and there was no burlesque its easy if you try....

by easy Wed Feb 08, 2006 23:45

:Hamas have agreed to negotiate with the Israeli state:
:The Israeli state will honour economic comitments with the Palestinian statehood:
:Putin has said in spain that europe ought not stop funding the palestinian statehood:
:the spanish king has said that all europeans ought remember russian gas:

Iran sponsered destruction of Eurocrat property.
oh well.
Iran just insulted every Dv8iant, every leftist, every libertarian, oh yes and jew amongst you. You'd probably by dv8 or leftie.

:Its time we included ourselves:

by even easier Thu Feb 09, 2006 19:55

& to consternation amongst western right wing states has announced his intention to invite Hamas to Moscow for a cup of tea. It is thought that there in Moscow, mr Putin will show them the rockery, his dog and o course explain how the wonderful "Israeli state" not "zionist entity" brainwave will work.

Meanwhile the King of Spain and ZP have announced their belief that Russia must be counted amongst the principle brokers of political processes in the Levant and mid Asia.

This is an attempt to redress the breaking of the cold war balance.

If you're finding it hard to get your head around the "israeli state" then try saying "british state" or "spanish state" and see it works quite well in other contexts. I'd recommend revisiting the thoughts of Ed Said.
http://indymedia.ie/article/61318

I know this a swp thread, but i didn't write a "Palestinians voted and not voted" article and I've been happy to read thoughts and reactions to recent developments by the often maligned "comrades on the left".

- iosaf

by - Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:16

considered 2nd in command of the Hamas organisation he headed the 2006 electoral list, and it is no surprise that thus he be their candidate for the "number one Palestinian job".
he's varyingly described as a "pragmatist" and a "moderate". Of course he's also described as a "terrorist mastermind". But those sort of people seem to do well in community representation in the middle east.

by pat c Sat Feb 18, 2006 15:03

hamas got 43%

Fatah got 40%
PFLP got 5%
DFLP got 2%

other secular 10 %

if hamas attempt to introduce anti woman laws i hope the irish left will support extra parliamentary action by fatah/pflp/dflp.

by ginger Sun Feb 19, 2006 01:02

red hair is one of the peculiar questions we ask the genome. And for some reason wikipedia decided in its early days that red hair was typically Scottish or Irish (in that order) not only typically but _predominantly_. Of course red hair is found and was found first in mid asia. And yet another ginger beard is set to sit in power.