Sinn Fein SOLD Out for the English Pound and Queen

by Bullshit Buster Thu May 11, 2006 12:14

"As for those in the World Trade Center, well, really, let's get a grip here, shall we? True enough, they were civilians of a sort. But innocent? Gimme a break. They formed a technocratic corps at the very heart of America's global financial empire, the "mighty engine of profit" to which the military dimension of U.S. policy has always been enslaved and they did so both willingly and knowingly."

— Ward Churchill , "Some People Push Back"

by Bullshit Buster Thu May 11, 2006 12:16

"... too busy braying, incessantly and self-importantly, into their cell phones, arranging power lunches and stock transactions, each of which translated, conveniently out of sight, mind and smelling distance, into the starved and rotting flesh of infants. If there was a better, more effective, or in fact any other way of visiting some penalty befitting their participation upon the little Eichmanns inhabiting the sterile sanctuary of the twin towers, I'd really be interested in hearing about it"

- Ward Churchill , "Some People Push Back"

by Ciarán Ó Brolcháin Thu May 11, 2006 13:00

Wikipedia article...

by Ciarán Ó Brolcháin Thu May 11, 2006 13:04

"The names I have listed cannot be associated with the legacy of the “Hang Around the Fort” Indians, broken, disempowered, and intimidated by their conquerors, or with the sellouts who undermined the integrity of their own cultures"

Can this quotation really be attributed to SF? I was reading a story in Lá today about their internal gaelicisation plans, based on the Batasuna model, and it would seem that they're the only political party in the country to take the language question seriously. (That being said, it remains to be seen if anything will come of this plan.)

by Seán Thu May 11, 2006 13:59

You must be a Brit, work for Brit Intel or a fool.

You are doing no work for the establishment of a 32 county socialist republic.

Your comments are anti-Sinn Féin. Why? Because you are anti-United Ireland.

Sinn Féin are the representatives of the pro-United Ireland people in Ireland.

Anyone who attacks Sinn Féin is attacking the movement towards the United Ireland.

Up Sinn Féin - Join Sinn Féin

by Tank Girl Thu May 11, 2006 14:53

Refresh my memory please. Which party has members who served as Ministers of the Crown? Which organisations did Scapp and Donaldson belong to?

by Michael Thu May 11, 2006 18:02

Sinn Féin has thousands of members are constantly working for an Ireland of Equals.

by beef eater Fri May 12, 2006 10:44

hhhmmm Martin McGuinness on Hearts and Minds last night wants to go into government with Ian Paisley Snr!!!!! HELLOO, the same ayatollah Paisley who says No all the time, the arch-proBritain politician of them all! At least John Redmond was a pro-Ireland capitalist, Paisley is a pro-Britain capitalist. They stink both the same but from SF's perspective surely pro-irish capitalists are better.

Wee Marty from the bogside also talked about all the great things the Assembly had done while it was in business such as . . . . ah hm, eh, well, they, em, privatisied schools and hospitals (whoop it up for Ireland!) and they lurched from crisis to crisis spitting sectarian bile at each other on the hill (whoop it up for Ireland) and they agreed to disagree that really the GFA meant the first step to a united ireland (SF and SDLP) and that it copper fastened the union (UUP) and that it sold the union down the river (DUP) (so once again let us whoop it up for Ireland!). Last but by no means least all 4 parties agreed to water charges, and now (surprise surprise) all 4 parties are against them.

The Assembly didnt do nothing for nobody, except if you were already rich. I'm sure there are genuine socialists in SF and people who really want to help ordinary people, but how long before you wake up and smell the coffee? The leadership of SF are guilty of collusion with the British and Irish states: openly through the GFA and the Nationalist Fronts of early 90's and secretly through the use of British spies such as Donaldson and Scap. I wonder how many Brit spies there really are in SF, god knows the Brits own the loyalists but dont the actions of SF and IRA STINK to HIGH HEAVEN of collusion 'oh yes sir il doff me hat to ya sir heres me weapons sir, oh yes another hand out sir, oh no dont hit me sir hit those rotten dupers sir' etc etc

and SF claim the legacy of 1916 and 1981, you can either laugh or cry, i think il cry . . . .

by Bullshit Buster Fri May 12, 2006 11:59

For 30 years the IRA tried to bomb and shoot their way to a United Ireland and failed.
Why?
Ulster said "No!"
The Ulster Prod simply has balls of steel.

Any chance that we have of uniting Ireland is going to be by peaceful negotiation by the democratic parties in round table talks. Even then I find it very hard to find a synthesis between the extreme nationalists of Sinn Fein and the extreme loyalists of the DUP.
They couldn't agree on the colour of shite to be quite honest.

The simple fact is the Ulster Protestant population were Britsh before the arrived in Ireland, remained British while they lived here for generations and generations and will remain so.
Unless somebody has some crazy Milosevic type ideas of ethnic cleansing most reasonable nationalists must concede they were not going anywhere and they are not going to join a united Ireland unless it is on THEIR terms.
They simply don't want to.

The Nationalist population of Northern Ireland will simply have to accept the fact that they are going to remain British subjects as long as the majority of people in Northern Ireland consider themselves British and Unionist.

The 30 years of violence achieved nothing only death and destruction and sectarian division and poverty for Northern Ireland.

It was only by peaceful means that Northern Ireland Catholics won their rights - the violent IRA campaign had entirely negative effects on social change.

Ward Churchill is a nut and no friend of Ireland.

by Davy Carlin Fri May 12, 2006 12:47

There is now a few of debates between different aspects of Republicanism, good to see, {and would be interesting to tie them all in} - Indeed, including those who had said recently they believe that they have been ‘marginalised etc.

{Activists will know, by and large, who are and are not genuine posters in the course of such debates}

Over the years I have debated and discussed with all ‘Aspects of ‘Established Republicanism {‘Established in the organisational sense} and by and large the debates have happened in the thread of not agreeing, but at least respecting each other right to disagree.

In doing so I have come to ‘respect such persons for not only the way they engaged and engage, but for actually being ‘confident enough to engage – despite however much I do disagree with their various strategies.

I read on Indymedia of various such, raising the issue of attempted Revisionism, of marginalisation, of not being heard etc. Well many many scores of thousands log on to Indymedia each month, this from across the journalist world {both ‘established and ‘Citizen journalists} - from, grassroots, trade union, Ngo - and political organisations and parties, and such more – indeed from across the progressive movement in Ireland and beyond.

- There is no better place to reach such whom one may want to reach, in their entirety.

-On the wider points -

-The Shinners have their, present, strategy, which is one of reform, to attempt to make life better not only for their voters but for all, working within the system of Government. Whether one agrees with that, the reality is that scores of thousands do. With that they believe that this is part of a strategy to a United Ireland.

For ‘Dissident Republicans’ they hold a different strategy, based more on the ‘Tradition of Principle, with far less, present, support, they nevertheless seek also the reunification of ‘their county.

And of course there is Republican Socialism who ‘emphasise on also ‘reaching out to the Working class.

Therefore there are many strategies and beliefs. Indeed I also seek a united Ireland, and also a Socialist Ireland, and also a Socialist world. To many this may seem Utopian, but again to many others a United Ireland could be seen as Utopian.

Again it is a case of where one is ‘coming from’

Personally on a United Ireland {if not a Revolutionary Situation before} then I believe it will be more of a matter of {and I will use a phrase from my old SWP days} of the border ‘withering away’ {over a few decades} rather than any constitutional change – that again is simply, my own personal belief.

I would say though the post of Strabane Ogra SF and their and other vigils for Bobby Sands should not collapse into a slating match {more especially with young activists seeking to engage with the 'Aul heads, of which I am one -although still relatively young – I am told!},

People have of course disagreements and their right to them, but the Vigil held by the young SF, I believe [whatever disagreements that I might have} - was a good initiative by young activists and should be looked at in that regard – as have the initiatives by many others.

This though, is an important year to remember back to that time of the Hunger Strikes, it is also an important year to remember such activists as James Connolly. On both, a lot of events are being held {my partner and I are heading down to the rededication of Connolly’s plague on the Falls Road tonight} and activists should get involved or go along to whatever events.

Additionally such debates, may it be on Anarchism, Revolutionary Socialism, Republicanism, Liberalism {and all their various forms} - or whatever should be encouraged and participated in.

Indeed I go and listen to various speakers of various organisations or go on various marches, or read various papers, or speak on various platforms etc - and in doing so people have in the past said, well he is this or he is that. - simply for being there, lending Solidarity to, speaking to or at, or listening to, or engaging with others from across the Movements.

The reality though, is that I believed and believe, that activists should listen to all points and all views and all various speeches, and read all various if they can - from those who make up the Progressive Movement in Ireland - and not be 'afraid to be ‘tarred etc.

Of course that is not possible on all occasions given some organisations almost - and indeed - real 'hatred, or history between each other.

In recent times I could be called A Shinner, an SPer, an SWPer, a Dissident, an IRP , a Liberal etc etc – simply for reading, engaging with, attending meetings of, speaking at, lending support to – all the various ‘others’

We need to move away from this mindset, I believe - -

{Indeed I have pencilled in the go also to Dublin later this month, if I can for the 'Where next for Republicanism meeting - don't know what I'll be 'tarred with for that!} - this, simply because I am interesting in hearing 'others views - no more no less.

For me I believe that activists should not fear debate either listening to it or taking part in it, - and it is good to see so many different 'understandings regularly engage here.

At the end of the day we all have our own beliefs on the way forward; each of us will work for the outcome of those beliefs. It is important though that we do debate and engage so we can begin not only to ‘understand 'other traditions and beliefs more’ but to try and work together more on issues of commonality.

Of course there are those who just cannot and will not work together, but for many more there is that possibility – and it begins with that space for debate and discussion where 'disagreement will occur but one needs to respect each others right to disagree.

That at least should be starting point - D

by Marcella Fri May 12, 2006 23:36

"We must see our present fight right through to the very end.”
Bobby Sands

I wonder what end Sands visualised.....
A corporate Sinn Fein?
Brits Out?
A Police Board supported by Sinn Fein?

maybe a Free Socialist Ireland?

"Generations will continue to meet the same fate unless the perennial oppressor-Britain-is removed, for she will unashamedly and mercilessly continue to maintain her occupation and economic exploitation of Ireland to judgment day, if she is not halted and ejected"
Bobby Sands

25 years has been a blink of an eye in the grand scale of things...
Sands family have wanted nothing to do with the corporate hijack of his memory..

Shame on those who use his death to further their ambitions to solidify the state brit or 26...

Our children still have to wait too long to laugh!

lets hope its not long now...

by Gilbert Jeannon Fri May 12, 2006 23:36

..is clear.

We cannot build working class solidarity unless we dismantle the sectarian apartheid state which exists on this island. The call for solidarity must not ignore the reality of the effects of partition, which has stifled all attempts at challenging the establishment, north and south.

Shoulder to shoulder with you Davy in confronting fascism, though I do believe that the six counties will always be a fertile environment for this idealogy. The supramacist tendency of unionism allows sectarianism and racism to continually divide workers.N.Ireland was built on the principles of permanent division. Confronting the legitimacy of unionism, in all its manifestations, .......that is the the starting point.