Serratia marcescens - A Mouldy Corpus Christi

by hocus pocus Thu Jun 07, 2007 15:42

I do like that photo of Irish devotees. Observe how some are geuinely masochistically doing their public bit of faith and kneeling on the hard knobbly pavement whilst others like that little old woman are scared of such torment and prefer the soft wet grass.
Many (including myself) believe the origin of "hocus pocus" was a corruption of the words "hoc est corpus" used in the kathurlick liturgy.

anyway - I look forward to reading your report on the Bush klan's visit to Poland. Here's a reminder of the last time the communion wafer popped up on indymedia ireland. Where indeed there were three consecutive comments to the now defunct "offsite media update" articles which used cover such delights as Dutch priests being allergic to wafers & of course the recipe.
http://indymedia.ie/article/66233?&condense_comments=fa...84452
_If you can't click links - here's the recipe so you too can make communion wafers in the comfort of your own home.

Unleavened Communion Wafers
1/2 tablespoon granulated sugar
1/4 cup soy flour
1/4 cup potato starch
1/4 cup brown rice flour
1/4 teaspoon salt
1/4 teaspoon baking powder
1 tablespoon white Crisco
1/2 tablespoon butter-flavored Crisco
1 1/2 tablespoons gluten-free honey
1/4 cup water

Preheat oven to 350 degrees F.

Mix dry ingredients well. Cut in Crisco and honey. Add water in small amounts and mix well. Spread dough in a 1/4 inch thick layer in a 9-inch pan. Bake for 10 minutes. Cool.

Cut into pieces measuring 1 to 1 1/4 x 1/2 inch. ask God to enter your wafers & then eat them. (try and be suitably solemn).

by Ping Thu Jun 07, 2007 16:46

Rather than preheating a conventional oven to 350 degrees F, use the microwave so that the wafers have that authentic washed-out, insubstantial look The little "ping" when they are done also dispenses with the need for a nun with a bell.

by Lickspittle Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:46

Looks like the playboy bunny to me.

by Hurler back on the pitch Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:51

The Irish church have recently (as reported by the Irish Ind. on May 31st, 2007) praised Poles for
revitalising faith in the Irish church:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/faith-of-polish....html

The purpose of the post above was to give a comparative insight into how the Irish belief system operated
not so many years ago and how it has since fallen from grace, partly due to it's over-reliance on rituals that
have no rational basis and require pure, unadulterated blind worship as opposed to emphasising the primary
virtues within Christian social teaching, i.e. option for the poor, primacy of conscience, principle of subsidiarity, etc.
Public manifestations of faith are still very common in Poland, whereas in Ireland nowadays the days of procession with a statue of the Virgin Mary have long taken a back seat to opposing celebration-patterns, ranging from pew-vacant country parishes high on echo value to the Gardiner st. / Rathmines style of hip and funky entertaining gospel/folk music rituals that attract a large young audience.

The religious attitudes and practices of a major immigrant community in Ireland whose attitudes and traditional religious rituals are
obviously having an impact on older folks in various parts of the Irish community (and maybe also amongst younger folks who have been renewed in practicing their Catholic faith due to having Polish
friends/work colleagues, etc. ) points towards what I deem a negative turn in
the tide for the Irish church - away from a more progressive, transparent, ecumenical, collaborative
ministry involving the laity and back towards the more Marianist, ritual
heavy, ecumenically-suspicious, miracle-laden, uncritical, patriarchical and hierarchical Polish church model.

The Polish church model and it's adherents in Ireland may be revitalising the faith, according to the bishop, but this renewal
consists of the worst types of Catholicism that many Irish people had shaken off. Maybe this indicates just how desperate the church are to keep numbers rolling through the aisles on Sunday and furthermore it seems to be an attempt at guilt-tripping the nominal native flock into getting their act together and coming back to the straight and narrow!!

by pat c Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:56

No, the image on the host is obviously Bugs Bunny. Notice that one ear is cocked. Bugs hears Elmer Fudge approaching singing: Kill the Wabbitt! Kill the Wabbit!

I've heard of the lamb of god but this is the first time I've encountered the bunny of god.

by Biker Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:05

Looks like a satellite dish to me - pointing up to the left? See it? Has to be a satellite dish. Maybe they're tuned into Big Brother.

by Biker Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:07

It's pointing right - must be CNN.

by Lickspittle Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:30

You're right, it can't be playboy. Unless the photo was flipped by an Unseen Hand, like the statue at Ballinspittle.

by rebecca Wed Jun 13, 2007 20:58

congrats you guys for saddening me to the core and for the beautiful display of complete irreverence and flippant disrespect for a mystery that happens to be the centre of the faith, for many millions of Catholics both Roman and Orthodox across the globe.

Fair enough if you don't believe in transubstantiation or are not Catholic. Thats your business. Whatever faith you may belong to, or not, don't you dare ridicule what others believe. Shame on you.

check out this http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

by once a teenager Wed Jun 13, 2007 22:40

What a pity some highly educated people are turning their gifts towards mocking other people's beliefs. Unfortunately, a privileged education is no substitute for wisdom or for actually thinking about something. Does it never occur to you that many believers are also educated people who live in the real world and have managed to reconcile their beliefs with their sensual experiences? Why mock these people (and I am one of them) and their beliefs? By default, religious beliefs are highly personal and a sensitive subject.

When ignorant people are challenged by scientific discoveries they resort to sarcasm and denial and sneering, especially if they are educated, as what they cannot understand threatens them. Enlightened people usually ignore their whinnying. You who mock well-tested, deeply rooted holistic beliefs come across in a similar light. Grow up and use your intelligence to do something constructive, if you believe that any actions are constructive. If nothing is worth doing, then find something worth reflecting on.

by hurler on the ditch Wed Jun 13, 2007 23:49

This post is not meant to offend Catholics or any Christian. It deals with the reality in Poland and what was reality in Ireland up to recently.
People who commented have focused on the bunny rabbit shitology for their own reasons - the first picture above is not a host; it's an image of the bacteria believed in hindsight to have fooled parishioners in a Roman church. I doubt very much it had a huge influence on the Pope to initiate this feast day.

Fact is most Christians don't think much about consubstantiaton or transubstantation, but nevertheless they should be respected and not mocked - it is their belief system and even libertarians should get used to the fact that religious belief ain't going anywhere off the radar in the 21st century. It can be rationally argued against but a space for dialogue should be always open so as to create greater understanding and less fear from both sides of the coin. This post is also not meant to pat religious ritualists on the back so that they continue getting mucky and stony knees from blind worship and over-emphasising feast days they know little or nothing about. I am a baptised Catholic though I find it very difficult nowadays to reconcile my beliefs with my scientific understanding of how the world ticks. The God of the Gaps just doesn't hold it for me any longer.

Anyhow, that aside, it would be good to hear from Poles especially about their experiences here in Ireland with the church? Do they find it too liberal? Have they fallen away from their practices since moving here? Are they finding the mass ceremonies in Polish an essential ingredient to staying close to their home traditions? Do they find the Irish clergy, nuns non-judgemental and helpful when they seek advic, help, information?

by dd Thu Jun 14, 2007 00:30

On the downside, Indymedia unfortunately seems to attract more than its fair share of religious bigots,
some of them contributing articles.
Just what the world needs.

by Lickspittle Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:05

It's OK Rebecca, we are only placed here by God to try your Faith. Beyond that we have no purpose in this life. It is His Will.

But I also think that your church's decision not to support Amnesty International over limted abortion was made to try my faith in humanity...

by once a teenager Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:51

Fair point hurler. I agree that many practicing Christians, even pious or devout ones might not spend much time pondering trans or con subtantiation. As you know this is a highly technical point, and clarifying it would have little effect on the faith of a believer. Indeed, just as I am no expert in relativity or biology, I can trust the expert scientists and their scientific communities to assure that the snippets I digest are based in fact. Similarly the church has theologians who can dispute such fine and lofty matters as the above.

I am happy to let them do the thinking for me, and will accept their outcomes with the caveat that it is not my own conclusion. Similarly I can accept the church's stance on abortion as a woman's right, even if my unthinking instinct is to recommend allowing all people do whatever they want. And much as I respect Amnesty and will support their claims of human rights abuse in far off places I have never seen, of people I will never know; that organisation does not have the same credentials as the church in my judgement formation process.

Often we look for evidence to reassure our position. If a doctor has bad news, it is frequent to look for a second opinion (and perhaps cling to it). While the church certainly cossets and offers lots of reassurance to people (and indeed to bigoted views and cruel attitudes), it is also an institution that challenges. It challenges to the core of the person and is perhaps easier to ignore than to confront with all its history and sophistry and wisdom. I think the Polish believers will challenge the Irish church. Their piety and pageantry challenge my beliefs, as of course do revelations in neuroscience and psychology.

by Ping - Campaign for Nun-free Childhood Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:18

If any of the sarcastic posters above (myself included) were raped in childhood and have watched in disgust while the hierarchy covers up abuse, ships the rapists around the world to carry on raping and spends more time and money on blaming the victims than making up for their faults, then perhaps they should be congratulated for maintaining a sense of humour. The greatest "mystery" of Catholicism is the Indemnity Agreement and sick individuals like Brother Gibson, Protector of Rapists.

If I was a public relations strategist (which I am) for the Catholic Church (which would be pointless as they are corrupt to the core) then I would be making church facilities available to help survivors of childhood abuse - they might stop being sarcastic then. But I'll tell you for free that sarcasm is a whole lot less painful than rape.

Pope Benedict Fester

by once a teenager Thu Jun 14, 2007 15:14

I'm sorry to read of your childhood and the horrors that I cannot imagine that occured to you. I will make no further comment on that point because it must be extremely sensitive to you and it does not affect me.

Since the church has protected the people who have done such wrongs they are a legitimate target for people's fair sense of justice to prevail. (I'm deliberately being general here but clearly this applies to your case). You should attack anyone who committed such crimes, expose them and the hypocrites who protected them. Attack the institution and its members who allowed this to happen in its name. However, you take it too far by mocking believers.

An analogy (simplistic but fair I believe): I am mugged by a black person in Africa. Her family (who are also black people) protect her and cover up the crime. Result - I hate black people. Natural outcome but when the hurt recedes, I hope the victim can direct their sense of injustice more accurately. Don't be annoyed at this childish and fictitious analogy - it is not my intention to offend. However, consider this: Jew offends me, I sneer at Jews (with great wit and to good effect); others take up this attitude and progress the sneering; unfortunate combination of circumstances and horrific outcome possible.

by Ping Thu Jun 14, 2007 21:11

It would be appalling to attack all black people or Africans or Jewish people, or any religious or ethnic group, because of the action of one person. But if it would be a different matter the offensive actions were commonplace in the group, acceptable to the group and if the group invested considerable resources in hounding anyone who complained of the offensive actions. I seem to recall that the catholic church in the US isn't too fond of the Anti-Defamation League, but you probably wouldn't call that anti-semitism. In the catholic church in Ireland ten in every hundred priests rape children and outfits like the Brothers of Charity protect the rapists and persecute the children.

Ten in a hundred is unbelievable. There are 350+ victims of the 102 (and counting) paedophile priests to be itemised in the Dublin Archdiocese report in September http://www.cps.dublindiocese.ie/article_207.shtml

Persecuting the victims is unbelievable. But see Brother Gibson's testimony http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=+site:www.paddydoyl...ibson

Don't get me wrong on this, I'm not blasting all catholics for one person's behaviour, but the behaviour of many. This is my perspective: I was beaten after I was raped. I lost three pints of blood - I mean beaten when I say beaten. I was taken from the school to hospital, stitched up and transfused. I was told to say that all my injuries were from tripping on a jagged path. Everyone - teachers, nurses, doctors - went along with this obvious lie. And they still don't want to hear the truth. If there was some way to help people before they become as bitter as me, then the church should expend every effort on it.

But I mock fairy stories.

by Rebecca Fri Jun 15, 2007 21:17

fair enough resort to sarcasm to try and contribute to the debate. your post has nothing to with transsubstantiation either.

And you certainly don't try my faith! My faith is in God not in men. The debate has, predictably, turned from the matter in hand, to scandal in the church. Don't get me wrong, I am not denying that the church is rife with abuses of different kinds and I'm not excusing it. It is horrific. I believe Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour and is present at the consecration in the Mass when the priest prays the Eucharistic prayer. That is what I believe. I receive Jesus each time I go to Mass in the Eucharist. Mock me all you like for believing that God would humble himself to come to me in a piece of bread.

as for the church asking Catholics to withdraw their funding to Amnesty International on the basis that they are lobbying for abortion to be legalised in a certain countries, i'm pleased they made that statement.

Would it not be hypocritical for an institution to be against something yet continue to support it financially? The church does not regard abortion as a human right, more as the denial of a human right, the right to life of the unborn. There are many other humanitarian organisations that people can donate to without it resulting in a conflict with their own morals.

And seeing as we are branding all religious(priest and nuns) with same iron, lets just take a moment to remember the amazing work some Catholic missionaries do, for an example Mother Teresa and the sisters of Mercy in India who gave dignity to the dying, as they were rotting on the streets. She held them, filthy and diseeased in her arms as they died. Fr Damien of moloki who gave his life, helping the lepers and eventually succumbed tp the disease himself. aMong many others.

Its not all bad. And while I'm sorry for the hurt that has been caused tosome at the hands of s priest, I can only say that some people, i dont know, who knows what is going in intheir head. There is healing to be found, I know persionally. I have only been a practising Catholic for five years.

by dante alighieri @ the 6th circle Sat Jun 16, 2007 19:07

Rather you believe the bread becomes the real substance of God or to be more precise Jesus - after practising the faith for five years you should have got the basic elements of the trinity mystery together by now. But If you believe God (in his Jesus aspect) "humbles himself" as you quaintly put it to enter a piece of bread or wafer then you are a consubstantionist not a transubstantionist. If you are a consubstantionist then you are not a proper kathurlick at all but a follower (allbeit perhaps unknowingly) of what is considered a heresy by the church of Rome but is all the same one of the most common takes on the eucharist the other common one being it's all just symbols, smells and bells et cetera amen.

I just thought I'd add that little angel to the pinhead. That is indeed one other possible origin of hocus pocus which rather than the explanation I left up the page along with the recipe might be a corruption of species which is the reference to the wafer and how even though it has changed into Jesus in substance it still looks like a wafer in appearance (species being latin for appearance). Of course this leads one to all sorts of questions - how you can tell the difference between a transubstantiated, consubstantiated and symbolic host being one.

Anyway - your sincerity is to be remarked upon I can't help thinking that before people who have such a shallow grasp of the mysteries of their faith embark on defending the collective wrongs of others they should give the 6th circle of Dante's Hell a bit more consideration. It's a cold place and I reckon it's full of those who were "good catholics" but missed the hocus pocus.

by Vulgate Sat Jun 16, 2007 20:15

The issue of the Roman control nexus and the repression of materials into articles of faith
leads to poor innocent faithful catholics getting all confused about which particular heresy
they may be casually adopting. Maybe the pope should re-write the constitution of his empire
and begin at the beginning, which is not the creationist fundamentalist creation ideology.
Come on give us some real catholicism , then we can all examine our collective consciences
and drop the pills, condoms, missionary position, divorce , animalism, cannibalism, vampirism
and everything else that is naughty and downright sinful. Should it begin with the donation
of Constantine or maybe the repressions of Brigit/Columba/Patrick.
I am taking the St Galvao's pills but they are not working.

by rebecca Sat Jun 16, 2007 22:29

Yes i do believe that God almighty is present in the Eucharist ("thanksgiving"), another name for consecrated bread. I believe in the Holy Trinity, that God the father, Son and Holy Spirit are one, a tripersonal God. It is quite a complex theological issue on the one hand, on the other, when pondered upon with a faith full heart can be quite simple. I absolutely am no theologian. And unfortunately do not have a whole lot of spare time to study matters such as these in depth, but you may find the Writings of St Augustine on the Trinity particularly interesting as this was a subject that he struggled with, and for a time did not believe in the trinity. however, as I believe God is tri personal, in three distinct persons, I believe that Jesus is present under the appearance of bread and wine in a sacramental way and that it is calvary revisisted, in an unbloody sacrifice. Yes , God who can do all things, humbles himself, to come to me as I receive Jesus' body and blood in the Eucharist.
You know the saying 'if you love someone, you'll set them free?' Iguess thats kind of what God does. He loves us unconditionally, and he gives us the free will to do whatever. Of course, imagine if Jesus appeared to people in his Godly form, then everyone would believe in him. With our own eyes the Eucharist is just a piece of bread, looks like bread, tastes like bread. But with eyes of faith its Christ's sacrifice of calvary, for each one of us. He triumphed over death, because He loves us.

I know this may seem incredibly simplistic, but faith is. And yes, of course we should challenge our beliefs and ideas passed on to us by others, thats healthy. thats where I found my faith. I wouldn't even bother writing this if I didn't believe whole heartedly that my life has been changed incredibly by my faith, and the Eucharist which is central to my faith.

by iosaf ( Dante & Hocus Pocus) Sat Jun 16, 2007 23:10

Yes Augustine was a heretic before becoming a doctor of the church but certain aspects of your beliefs which you describe as roman catholic appear to me based on the comments above to owe more to Thomas Aquinas ( I am obliquely referring to your opinions on the whole range of medical and ethical and social issues which are asisted abortion and fertility control).

I believe these religiousity threads which pop up every now and again are useful places for frank exchange on a whole range of issues of both ethical as well as metaphysical nature. I hope I didn't sway your faith by pointing out your understanding of the "presence" is not exactly in line with Roman catholic teaching but on the day the roman pontiff signed bits of paper with the Orthodox communion whose notions aren't exactly the same either - perhaps we may take it as a sign of how broad a church the kathurlicks have these days. I was taken by your "quaint" original description of God being so "humble" to do the host thing. It is quaint is it not to ascribe one the 7 virtues ascribed to humanity alone to the almighty. I presume his beard isn't so fashionably groomed in keeping with his modesty.

However, my take on this is not based on having too much time on my hands or a propensity to read both approved and heretical texts of any Christian tradition. As any reader familiar with my contributions to this site over time know I come to this issues from a quite different perspective .:. Let me suffice to say - I've an idea by now which circle I must try and avoid. I hope the comfort you derive from roman sacraments does not confuse your understanding of any aspect of "sin" or "trangression" & lead you like so many to stray into the territory of judgement. Enough to accept the teaching of your chosen religious group - but to voice it is at end as unfortuanately quaint and counter productive as thinking God or the supreme architect might humble himself.
;-)

I wonder how you feel about being cheated the other "species" o transubstantion - to wit the blood of Christ?

by P.M.E Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:55

Give onto Benedict and the apostolic sucession of priests and popes what is theirs and
maybe the rest of us can have a rest. What is 'theirs' is the cultivation of ignorance under the
shawl of a 'belief system' and a lot of money. Deliberate over-population, war and torture too.
It increases profit and they would be the leaders of the people, in much the same way that
the ayatallohs keep their people in ignorance and violence too. I do wonder how many
grieving people are frightened of the demons of the West who rape and murder and thieve
in the name of the white God. I believe that its called 'pre-emption'. Christian fundamentalism
breeds hatred and fear and that was never the Christological message, but then that religion was
not born in the West , just adapted to the system.