Ruairi O Bradaigh to take part in debate in UCC

by Seorse Pl Sat Jan 26, 2008 19:47

O'Bradaigh is to debate Eoghan Harris

http://www.uccphilosoph.com/internal/

by Jacqueline Fallon Sun Jan 27, 2008 13:29

I would love to attend this debate but, unfortunately, I can not. I hope the UCC Philosophical Society has set-up a boxing ring for these two contenders.

This will surely make for a very heated contest with two very different gentlemen debating: (1) Mr. Ruairí Ó Brádaigh who has remained loyal and committed to the cause of Irish freedom and leaves absolutely no one guessing where he stands; (2) Mr. Harris, on the other hand, who has abandoned the cause of Irish freedom moons ago, and who leaves everyone guessing where he stands with his ever changing views and moods on a whole variety of issues - a good guess at a description would be, he is currently Bertie Ahern's Guardian Angel/Advocate and has remained stagnant of late on a swing bought by Bertie Ahern.

by Tom - none Sun Jan 27, 2008 20:45 none none

Will this event be recorded on DVD ? I cant go the debate but I would love to see a recording of it.

by Sean Hartnett Mon Jan 28, 2008 01:04

An Seanad Eireann is a product of Irish republican struggle. Harris owes his undemocratic position as Senator to the leader of the 'republican party'.
How can a member of a republican institution argue against republicanism?
Harris the contortionist will have no difficulty.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/83820

He will equate the republicanism of O'Bradaigh with nationalism and this with Irish 'tribal' Catholicism.
Harris may even say he agrees with Wolfe Tone. But then comes the Harris revisionist narrative... the failure of the English to listen to Edmund Burke...the Famine... John Mitchell... Irish republicanism became nationalistic, and then the conspiratorial Fenians and then the IRA, ...Coolacrease... the Provos...and now the murder of Paul Quinn. (John Mitchell was married in Drumcree church but don't mention that)
And don't mention the war.. the one in Iraq,,, because on this Harris is at one with his fellow neocons, Godson and Lord Bew.
Harris may even claim to be a republican and invoke the ancient Greeks especially Aristotle just to show that he's an intellectual. And the poor fools of the Philosoph with their use of Irish 'tribalism' in their announcement are predisposed to swallow Harris's propaganda.
O Bradaigh just has to be himself.

by Barry - 32 County Sovereignty Movement Mon Jan 28, 2008 02:50

It must be borne in mind that last July when the UCC philosophical society invited Mr OBradaigh to speak in refutation of the motion “That This House Believes That Irish Republicanism Has No Future " they had a little difficulty in finding someone to actually propose the motion in the first place . They then contacted Eoghan Harris . After Harris agreed to speak something a little strange happened .
UCC philosophical society contacted Mr OBradaigh again to inform him that the title of the motion had now been changed . Changed to " That this house believes that Irish republicanism in the 20th century has ben a disaster for the Irish people " !!!!
Naturally Mr OBradaigh refused to allow the goalposts be shifted in a manner which would allow Harris to dodge the issues .
Unbelievably the UCC crowd contacted him a third time to announce yet another revised motion was now the one going to be discussed . "That Irish nationalism has no future ", and tried to argue that Irish nationalism and Irish republicanism were simply interchangable terms . Yet again Mr OBradaigh refused to allow the goalposts be moved to suit Mr Harris .
So already months before this debate even taking place Eoghan Harris and those who sympathise with him within UCC philosophical society have been attempting to obscure the issue and shift goalposts to a point in which propaganda of their choosing will be the isue at hand . Its the same usual dirty oul trampish behaviour thats Harris' stock in trade . Ritual dishonesty .
Shame on the UCC society for playing along with an agenda of propaganda from a known extremist and hysterical political censor .

by Barry - 32 csm Mon Jan 28, 2008 06:24

Having failed in repeated attempts to facilitate Harris' attempts to have the motion changed to one he could happily polemicise on , and therefore dictate and restrict the terms of the debate and divert the issue away from republicanism , UCCs philosophical society website now seem to have simply ignored the wording of their own motion which Mr Harris found convenient .
Under the heading " Nationalism" a menacing balaclava clad , empty eyed gunman brandishes a pistol in front of a Tricolour . Yet the debate concerns republicanism , but obviously not the debate Mr Harris insists on having instead .

Ruairí Ó'Brádaigh is described as "a major figure in the nationalist movement" Not the republican movement . Mr Harris and his freinds and acolytes within UCC philosophical society seem to be determining Ruairí Ó'Brádaighs politics for him before hand . I believe Mr OBradaigh is well capable by this stage to define his own political outlook without assistance from UCC philosophical society , and he does not define those politics as nationalist . Nor does he define or refer to the Republican Movement as the Nationalist Movement .

No mention is made of the fact that unlike Mr Harris Mr OBradaigh is actually a former elected TD , while Mr Harris is an unelected senator . An appointee .

So this begs the question what the feck are UCC philosophical society playing at ?

It goes on in a similar revisionist vein

"Eoghan Harris was a leading ideologue for Official Sinn Fein in the 1960s; "

This is absolute bollocks , deliberate revisionism . There was no official Sinn Fein in the 1960s except for about 3 months at the end of 1969 . Throughout the 1970s and 1980s Eoghan Harris was a leading ideologue of sinn fein the workers party , which maintained an armed wing larger and better armed than the provos and who routinely beat , kneecapped shot and murdered their political opponents within and without the party . UCC are sterilising his past . This sounds like Harris wrote it himself . Obradaigh is deliberately misrepresented while Harris the sanitised saint is advertised .

"since then he has abandoned the extreme republican movement, acting as the first Catholic to advise a leader of the Ulster Unionist Party."

If the movement to which he belonged was extreme its simply because Harris himself was an extremist . He devised their very ideology and wrote their propaganda for them for over 20 years . From their beginning to their demise . This implies he left the sticks in the 1960s , when they werent even formed in the 1960s . He was around as their leading ideologue and propagandist throughout the worst of their stalinist excesses , over a period of more than 20 years . This is utterly dishonest spin . No mention whatsoever is made of his role within RTE as an hysterical political censor for the same decades , that even the lunatic conor cruise OBrien publicly and retrospectively publicly distanced himself from . Such were his antics .

"These two veterans of Irish politics and Republicanism are coming to Cork next Monday to debate the future of Irish nationalism. "

No they fucking arent . Ruari OBradaigh is going there to debate the actual motion , which is not about Irish nationalism . Harris doesnt like the motion and has another agenda, one it seems UCC phil.soc are doing their damndest to facilitate with half blatant revisionism and dishonest propaganda . If I was OBradaigh Id simply withdraw from this bollocks .

""In the world of the Good Friday Agreement, a world without Articles 2 and 3, do the Irish care about nationalism anymore? Should they? Surely after thousands of deaths and a hard won peace the time for the old tribalism is gone?"

Before the debate even begins UCC PHIL SOC have not only determined for their audience beforehand that nationalism and republicanism are the same thing , but that republicanism is only old fashioned tribal nationalism . Theyve also laid the blame for thousands of deaths at the door of Irish nationalism as opposed to British imperialism in Ireland .
No mention is made of the widely acknowleged fact that the GFA itself is only institutionalised tribalism . The republicanism which Mr OBradaigh espouses is the antithesis of the GFA . Incomparable .

" Is not cooperation more important than division? Or can the divisions be ever overcome until nationalism reaches its climax?"

what in the name of feck is " nationalism reaching its climax " ? Did Harris wrote that himself ?

Its very obvious UCC philosophical society are behaving in a highly dishonest fashion . Before the debate has already begun theyve repeatedly attempted to misrepresent the debate . Having failed to secure Ruairi OBradaighs permission to censor the debate and divert it from its original motion theyve simply opted to ignore the motion itself and engage in propaganda on behalf of Eoghan Harris .

In light of this Id personally withdraw from the debate . The motion Ruairi OBradaigh was invited to defend is not the motion this society and Eoghan Harris want discussed at all . Theyve shifted the goalposts in a highly dishonest fashion .

In my opinion this is simply disgraceful .

http://www.uccphilosoph.com/internal/

by Clive Sullish Mon Jan 28, 2008 16:09

Can't attend the meeting, but suggest that someone ask Ruairi OB why RSF tried to prevent an antiwar demo in Galway last Saturday

by pouting hippy Mon Jan 28, 2008 17:07

their press release tells you why. Jaysis if people have such a low level of comprehension its not wonder ye thought messing with the Mellows statue was a good idea.

by Harry Mon Jan 28, 2008 19:41

Barry:
"No mention whatsoever is made of his [Eoghan Harris's] role within RTE as an hysterical political censor for the same decades , that even the lunatic conor cruise OBrien publicly and retrospectively publicly distanced himself from."

What is the evidence that the Cruiser (or, Conor Booze O'Brien, as he was re-named near the end of his short-lived ministerial reign) distanced himself from his aforementioned lick-spittle, Eoghan Harris?

Evidence please.

by Barry - 32 csm Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:32

After a supreme court judge in 1992 ruled that the section 31 ban was " bad in law , null and void etc " and was becoming increasingly unpopular among a social class of people he couldnt demonise as being provo fellow travellers , Obrien announced that RTE themselves were deliberately taking section 31 to ridiculous extremes in order to discredit him and the legislation itself . He falsely claimed it was never intended to be used for the purpose it had been ritually used for decades and that RTEs interpretation contradicted his guidlelines . RTEs interpretation of OBriens own guidelines was of course Eoghan Harris interpretation and nobody doubted it . OBrien had come to the public defence of Harris in the past during his pro censorship polemics . While he did not name Harris personally everyone knew who was ensuring section 31 was taken to the extremes it had been . Obrien sought to pass the buck onto Harris once ignominy was staring him in the face and he was determined not to take the blame . .
It was a classic rats in barrel moment . OBrien sought to blame Harris once the heat was on and " decent" people within the establishment were announcing their distaste at the regime of Harris that hed helped put in place

by S.Hartnett Wed Jan 30, 2008 19:49

Reportedly Harris did not show up on the grounds that he was prepared to debate that nationalism, not republicanism, has no future.

by Barry - 32 csm Wed Jan 30, 2008 21:22

are we to take it then that unable to shift the goalposts , censor the debate and replace it with a completely seperate subject Harris is unable to take on a republican seperatist argument ? This would explain why he was such an advocate of censorship over the decades .