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The Saker Indymedia Ireland is a volunteer-run non-commercial open publishing website for local and international news, opinion & analysis, press releases and events. Its main objective is to enable the public to participate in reporting and analysis of the news and other important events and aspects of our daily lives and thereby give a voice to people.
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Property crash in Dublin national |
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news report
 Wednesday September 25, 2002 04:16 by Truthfully - lets be honest Irishpropertycrash at hotmail dot com
 negative equity - get while you can There is going to be a property crash in Ireland and a lot of people are going to be left in negative equity having over-borrowed beyond their means - the banks are partly to blame for lending 5 times peoples salaries. They wont mind because they can repossess all the property from people who can no longer pay. The economy in Ireland and world-wide is going down the toilet and it will hit the property market here soon. Housing prices rose last month but the bubble is so big its going to burst at any moment. There is going to be a property crash in Ireland and a lot of people are going to be left in negative equity having over borrowed beyond their means - the banks are partly to blame by lending 5 times peoples salaries(2.5 times is normal). They wont mind because they can repossess all the property from people who can no longer pay. The economy in Ireland and world-wide is going down the toilet and it will hit property here soon. Housing prices rose last month but the bubble is so big its going to burst at any moment. None of the mainstream press want to report this because of the revenue they get from property ads. Estate agents will not admit it because they dont want to shake the confidence of people who are speculating in property. Banks are happy to keep lending as much as possible - they can always repossess the property and leave you homeless. A recent trend is for banks to give 150% mortgages to speculators so they can buy a property and then go looking for another. Think of that next time you turn up to an auction and wonder why the price went so far over the guide price. Consider for a moment: With so many speculators in the market this means that prices are artificially high and bear no relationship to a real marketplace in which people buying intend to use the property for their own use and money lenders behave responsibly and lend realistically. The Irish property market is bulging from speculators, greedy estate agents and greedy banks. Thailand was a tiger economy a few years ago, just like Ireland and there was the same over valued property market there too. People wanted to believe the economy would grow and grow, they thought they had control over it. But it all ended in tears thanks to the speculators who care about nothing but profit for themselves. 20% of the population plunged into poverty, banks went bust, investment evaporated, the currency took a nose dive as did the whole property market. The fact that there are no tenant rights and no rent controls in this country only encourages speculators into the market. The fact that most landlords are not registered, dont declare rent in their tax returns and are not chased by the taxman is just a cherry on a very big cake for them. Currently 24% of landlords are registered and pay tax on rent. I dont see McCreevy going after landlords in order to find extra tax revenue. Perhaps he owns property himself, perhaps he has lots of friends who do, perhaps lots of people who fund his party own vast tracts of property all over Ireland. Only theory not fact of course! Of course!! The students know this(see the photo in the Indo 24/9/02 - USI launch the rent book for students). They might realise at some point that there are enough of them to decide what they want, demand it and get it. Its amusing to see the trade unions negotiating pay deals with the government and not mentioning the property crisis. Getting and extra 10 quid a week when your rent has gone up by 30 isnt much use. The government has spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on the Bacon reports(3 I think so far) - nothing was done and nothing has improved, might as well have flushed the money down the toilet. The cost of living has risen dramatically in the last few years so that we are now the 2nd most expensive place to live in the euro zone. Big companies have started moving out of Ireland to go to countries where labour and the cost of living is cheaper. None of the politicians will admit this because most of them are big land owners. They prefer to take a penny off the price of a pint rather than tackle the accelerated price inflation in the property market. But rent or mortgage repayments are the biggest bill people pay each week. The whole situation is a scam between the estate agents and the money lenders and noone is talking about it. The more money that is lent by the banks and building societies the more money people turn up to auctions with. So a house that might have gone for 300,000 euro ends up going for 400,000. The estate agent gets a bigger chunk of money as a commission. And the "new lucky owner" has to pay all that back over the new 30 years of their life. Some people call that a mortgage others call it debt slavery. Mainstream media is participating in a big lie, a big scam by not talking about this rot. "Ah but the price of my house will rise in value!" "But so will all the others. So where’s the gain? You still paid through the nose when you bought. And you will invariably borrow more when you next buy" The banks are laughing all the way to the………………. This site is an ideal area to express your opinion on this subject since you wont hear about it anywhere else. If everyone else is muzzled and paralysed by vested interests then I suppose its up to us to discuss it.......................? And if you have any doubts lets not forget that most of the tribunals, bar 1, came about from an ad put in the paper looking for information about corruption in the property market. |
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Comments (13 of 13)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13people on lower incomes should check out the councils shared ownership scheme, or affordable housing, now that 20% of housing has to be given as social housing its cheaper and you get a nice place. it beats getting a full mortgage
There is a maximum loan of €177,764 available for a new or existing property that the Council has to approve. Savings of up to €38,000 can be added to the purchase price but the maximum price is €190,461. Not many properties available in Dublin for these prices. I am on low salary and have only been approved for €140,000 which might buy me a shed in Lucan if I'm lucky. Shared Ownership scheme not the answer until the Corpo get up to date with with house prices.
As I remember, some of the stuff in the Bacon reports was implemented, and was fairly successful at taking investors out of the market (thus slowing the increase of house and apartment prices). But the construction industry complained because that was bringing their profits down, and they said it would reduce the number of new houses being built.
It makes a twisted sort of sense - you can't do anything to reduce the price of houses, because that would reduce supply! There will only be new houses built as long as they're too expensive for most people to buy! (unless you commute from Wexford and spend half your life behind the wheel of a car)
that between them, landlords in Ireland were witholding over £75million in tax annually.
I spoke to Threahold (www.threshold.ie) about this and the rsponse was that this was a conservative figure.
There is a "four year plan" in place which apparently started about two years ago to address certain issues, but these are mostly very minor on the part of the tenant and the majority are addresses concerns of the landlords.
The Gov has no plans to make any serious changes, either in the near or distant future, too many of them are landlords themselves and they're not going to ruin a good thing.
http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/ws/2000/housing60.html
...a tiny group of ten individuals (see box below) own almost all the land in Dublin that is zoned for housing. Their 7,000 acres are worth £3 billion, a figure that has been increasing by 20% every year. By simply sitting on this land these individuals are becoming 20% richer every year...
Thanks for the link, interesting
>>some of the stuff in the Bacon reports was
>>implemented, and was fairly successful
I dont think it was - anything done was a token gesture and wasnt intended to make a real difference - too many vested interests!!! Too much profits at stake.
A drop of rain in a desert.
Look at the state we are in now!
>>construction industry complained because
>>that was bringing their profits down,
They are also the biggest donators to political parties in Ireland and the biggest polluters too, bigger that the agricultural sector!!!
The money they make on property is massive and the power they have to bend people to their will is apparent everywhere you look.
They have a good scam going and want to protect it.
Look at how many developers are being called before the tribunals.
Look at how many politicians are landowners.
The recent trespass bill strengthens their position even more.
What does it mean to be an Irish Citizen today, what does your passport mean……….
……..and people died in the 1916 rising for Irish Freedom and independence from Britain. Look what has replaced the English absentee landlords.........................
Are we really better off?
>>you can't do anything to reduce the price of houses,
>>because that would reduce supply!
I have to totally disagree with you there.
Supply is directly linked to demand. And with a growing population how on earth could demand be falling.
What you have basically said is that developers are very greedy and have gotten used to making massive profits and don’t want to see it change.
They would have kept on building since the demand is still there but would have made more reasonable profits.
There are solutions - but not ones that landowners are going to like!!!! They might have to charge a sane price/rent and they will loose some power to the greater good of the people.
Land and shelter are human rights, with out them you cannot survive as an increasing number of homeless/dispossessed people are discovering.
Owning land in Ireland is like being part of a monopoly. The population is expanding but the surface of the planet isnt.
Land is finite.
There is no frontier anymore where you can run to and put a fence up. You either pay through the nose and work your whole life to pay off the debt or else you use violence and try to hold onto the land for long enough so people forget how you came to be there and you can claim some cultural/historical/family right to the land.
The question remains "How far back do you look"
Most land has been acquired through war/violence/terrorism and some how the "terrorists" found a way to make this method legal by claiming they had rights because they massacred the previous owners.
I wonder how that style would work in Dublin nowadays………
"No 47 Ranelagh Ave, 7pm this Tuesday, a fight will take place
to decide who will own this land, serious references and violence required"
Native Americans were amused at the white man and the fact that he thought he owned the land. The land was there long before he existed and it would be there long after. All man’s food comes from the land in order that he can live so surely he belongs to the land and not the other way around!
In economics terms I dont think land is understood or treated correctly.
Its my believe that land isnt part of capital but it is what all capital comes from. The first economists got it wrong, perhaps on purpose in order to please the landowners that funded them. The economists that followed havent done much better, repeating that land is merely a factor of production rather than a human right.
If the govt do nothing to get speculators out of the market prices will keep rising. People’s lives will become increasingly pressurised, paying a larger part of their salary on rent and have less spare time to live and think - they become almost slaves. We have seen couples who have to both go out to work in order to pay the mortgage. This pressure on women to leave the home(when they might want to raise their kids and not pay a child minder to do so) goes against the constitution of Ireland ……… which is "mysteriously" out of print at the moment……..
Im interested in home owners and what they are thinking about the amount of money they have had to fork out just so as not to be at the mercy of landlords!!
Do you they think its a just system or a total rip off. There is no choice anyway – which is why I used the word monopoly earlier.
My theory is that this issue isnt one that only interests non property owners - its time to wake up to the fact that everyone is being ripped off!!
While at the same time banks are reporting record profits and estate agents are looking to float their companies on the stock exchange.
>>check out the councils shared ownership scheme,
>>or affordable housing, now that 20% of housing
>>has to be given as social housing its cheaper
>>it beats getting a full mortgage
Houses are still over priced.
Having a smaller amount to pay because you arent buying the whole house isnt a real benefit, you are still taking part in a rip off.
"Wow I got my house for half the price but I only own half of it"
You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to work out that this means no gain.
What does the term "affordable housing" mean these days? Affordable relative to an over priced market is like saying you are prettier than the ugliest person I know!
How many want a loan of €177,764 when they shouldn’t need it in the first place. In the mid 90s there were houses in Dublin going for 40,000 upwards
How many people do you know have savings of up to €38,000
These facts are not encouraging or uplifting they are mere token gestures by the govt etc. Sorry if I fail to get excited about them
I should have been clearer
" >>some of the stuff in the Bacon reports was
>>implemented, and was fairly successful
I dont think it was - anything done was a token gesture and wasnt intended to make a real difference - too many vested interests!!! Too much profits at stake."
Some of the stuff that was intended to take investors out of the market _was_ implemented, and was having some effect on property prices. But then it was repealed, precisely because it was having some effect on property prices.
Perhaps Frank McDonald would write an article, under a disguised name!
Or some other journalists from other papers or tv/radio.
They might jump at the chance to talk about things their editor hasnt let them publish!!
It might be sometime since they have actually been able to get all the facts into their article with out fearing legal action from the people they are pointing the finger at.
Lets start emailing the property journalists and let them know its open season.............
first i want to say that god says those who eat reba(borrow many against interest will not satand other than the one who was strucked by madness).its all acospirsy between estate agents banks and developers to get profit of stealing peoples money and leave people in astess that lasts for 30 years or more which is the mortgage term.i realy feel sorry for those who took amortgage they are the slaves of those lenders even affordable housing wont save the problem it doesnt matter how much money you borrow just dont.finaly if you have enough money to buy ahouse in cash do it or not.