Join the Red Bloc on today's National Stoppage

by MG Fri Oct 04, 2002 11:27

If I remember correctly, it was the SWP's "Jail Corrupt Politicians" posters which got Charlie 'show me the money' Haughey off the hook for obstructing the McCracken Tribunal...

Does the so-called Red Bloc have some agreement with Ray Burke to ensure he won't ever come before a court? Or maybe the Red Bloc is the SWP?

by Militant Fri Oct 04, 2002 12:38

Is the red block the new name for the SWP or an independent group?

Can some one tell me!!!!

by iosaf mac diarmada - reclaim the streets! Fri Oct 04, 2002 13:22 iosaf at email dot com barcelona 0034679708674

Red Block is a new political term which refers to supporters of the traditional leftwing parties, marxist groups and trade unions.
It was coined by a
Reclaim the Streets! activist, and has since its first use in "established media" in 1998 come into general use throughout "political discourse".

It offers activists and supporters of those parties an opportunity to "rise above" their usual infighting and in the words of
siobhan (student)
build a force to be reckoned with.

We of
Reclaim the Streets!
think the red block should go on using the words we gave them.

by Daithi Fri Oct 04, 2002 13:33

The problem with "Jail the Corrupt Politicians" as a left-wing slogan is that you get unconvicted, untried people being named as suitable candidates for "jailing".

It's easy to defend the civil rights of your friends and allies. Sticking up for those you don't like is more of a test. I don't think that Haughey's trial should have been cancelled, but the actions of both Harney and the SWP were equally shameful. Imagine if Ray Burke called for those arrested at the Burlington to be jailed, before they've even had a chance to defend themselves in court - what would you think then?

Having a left block at rallies is a brilliant idea. It's just the slogan this time that worries me...

by Labour hater Fri Oct 04, 2002 15:04

Daithi what is your problem with jailing corrupt politicians. Personally I'd prefer to take over their property and then execute them (hanging preferably)

As a UCD student I have to put up with shite from the Labour party at meetings against the fees. At last meeting one 'radical' Labour member suggested talking to minister instead of protesting!

Daithi why dont you just join FF-FG etc?

by Angry Activist Fri Oct 04, 2002 15:31

I'm sick of these Social Democtatic Labourites always calling for restraint.

They are always great for saying there up for action and come out with all the rhetoric that goes with it, but when it comes down to it they are unwilling to get stuck in, in case it might harm their CV's whne they decide to run for the Dáil.

Labour are just another capitalist party, fundamentally no different to FG/FF/PD. Look at their position on the Nice Treaty for example.

by Daithi Fri Oct 04, 2002 15:31

I suspect you're just trying to argue for the sake of it - have you realised how stupid that sounds?

This is an issue of rights. I cannot believe that someone professing to be left-wing wants politicians to be subject to mob law.

You'd be perfectly at home in Fine Gael, they don't have much sympathy for defendants either...

You are coming up with a classic conservative argument and you don't even realise it.

If you don't accept that the right to a fair trial is universal, not just for your party members, you don't even deserve to be called a socialist. If you had any knowledge of history you would remember the denial of fairness to socialists and radicals all across the world by corrupt judges, reactionary politicans and stacked juries. How can you then turn around and support this type of "justice"?

by D Fri Oct 04, 2002 15:34

I wasn't answering Angry Activist, I only saw that post now. My reponse to his/her point is simple: I wasn't calling for restraint, I was calling for fairness. If you choose to turn this into a "social democrat bad" rant that's fine by me.

by Labour Hater Fri Oct 04, 2002 15:57

I do stand for civil liberties etc. However we should try corrupt politicians, take their property away from them and then kill them.

In a revolutionary period there may be popular acts of revenge by the workers, especially if there is the risk of counter revolution.

Personally I'd prefer a peaceful revolution, but the reality is that acts of violence may have their place.

It's not mob rule it's Revolutionary Justice!!

I think that Fascists, counter revolutionaries, class colaborators and any one else that gets in the way should be subject to the death penalty in the interests of the successfull carrying out of a revolution.

by Phuq Hedd Fri Oct 04, 2002 16:06

is an inoffensive slogan. If the posters said specifically "Jail Corrupt Politician X", naming politician X or were accompanied by a picture of politician X then it would be possible to claim that the poster was predjudicial to an ongoing trial.

As the slogan stands it's about as controversial as "Jail Murderers".

I don't agree that the SWP's poster at the time of the McCracken Tribunal was sufficient to get CJH off. I don't understand why people accepted that excuse. How does the protest by members of the public, their statement that they believe a particular person being tried affect the objectivity of the court? Shame on the anti-SWP people for accepting that pathetic excuse.

However, I don't agree with the idea of jailing corrupt politicians. Jail is a savage and barbaric way of dealing with someone and I don't advocate it for anyone except someone that is so dangerous to others that they can't be allowed freedom (and there's very few people actually like that). The "left" ought to be calling for the destruction of the corrupt system of power that allows people like CJH to harvest the rewards of power instead of calling for the petty punishment of a couple of egregious cases.

Focussing on the boys that have been caught with their fingers fumbling in the greasy till diverts public attention from the system.

by Daithi Fri Oct 04, 2002 16:15

Phuq Head, I agree totally - I said already that the trial should still have gone ahead, but the leaflet they produced did name Haughey and I personally think that that was wrong.

You also raise the interesting point of prison - I wonder what the hang-em brigade think of prison reform - there have been many campaigns for better prison conditions but more importantly alternatives to prison. I suppose we should send politicians to the Maze and let the British officers have a go at them..

And yes, it is about the system - does anyone believe Burke, Haughey and Lawlor were the only ones?

As for Labour Hater, I respectfully differ on the question of killing anyone who stands in the way of the revolution. I look forward to my death at the hands of the glorious revolutionaries.

(How can you even sleep at night, knowing that the class collaborators and scurrilous reformists are still breathing freely? You've been reading far too much Stalin my friend)

by Labour Hater Fri Oct 04, 2002 16:30

Daithi did you not read between the lines and see that I was attempting to rise you about revolutionary justice etc.

Seriously I do not call for death to corrupt politicians, although I'm not fond of them!. I think that their property should be taken away and they should be jailed.

by Daithi Fri Oct 04, 2002 16:37

I know that, I'm using the same kind of obtuse irony. I think we all take ourselves far too seriously most of the time around here. Like I said, I'm waiting for the men with guns to come around. I will then confront them with the UN Declaration on Human Rights and they will bow down before parliamentary socialism.