are we really that far behind in the opinion poles?

by Dave D Wed Oct 23, 2002 13:58

"From many of the people I have talked to about the NICE treaty,
not one of them was aware of Article 133 and the resultant privatisation
of everything that will occur as a result."

Man some of you people are so paranoid. Article 133 is not going to lead to the "privatisation of everything", just wait and see, such claims are just more of the wild lies spread by No groups. Anyway I'm off - just been conscripted into the NATO led European Army - again a complete lie.....just wait and see

Nice was about enlargement, hence the 900 "ireland says yes to enlargement" news storys on google the next day. Or maybe Enlargement was (yet another) conspiracy. Me thinks not.

by bored Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:27

Not a great article but...

...The IMS poll published by the Sunday Independent showed 41 per cent in favour of the treaty, 27 per cent opposed, 8 per cent not voting and 24 per cent undecided.

That lead looks convincing, but the number of those who are undecided, and the poor turn-out last time among suppporters of the treaty, leaves the result in the balance. Professor Richard Sinnott of University College, Dublin, said: "The figures look not very different from those in The Irish Times before the last referendum. From the government's point of view there is a lot of work to be done."...
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=342735

by A No Campaigner Mon Oct 14, 2002 14:44

The question posed does not actually reflect the situation.

From many of the people I have talked to about the NICE treaty,
not one of them was aware of Article 133 and the resultant privatisation
of everything that will occur as a result.

I read the situation for the ordinary punter as this. When the TV, radio and
newspapers are saturated by only the Yes campaign, and between them all, they
seem to have colluded to not at any point mention probably one of the main
issues (i.e. Article 133), then it is no wonder, that given the much smaller
resources of the NO side, that people vote Yes.

And why is this, because to some extent all humans conform, for example especially
in the way people follow fashions, whether that be the type of clothes they wear,
their hairstyle, films they watch and so on. There was probably clearly some kind
of advantage to generally go with the crowd in our evolutionary past, and it may
be part of our instinct. Clearly media and marketing organisations discovered this
long ago (even if they are/were unware of the actual reasons or mechanism) and so
would seem to explain why saturation coverage of something, even when the message
is pure lies, still works. It gives the impression to the individual they are the
only ones thinking 'wrong' even though they may have information to the contary.
It is here that one assumes logic would take over and they would vote No, but it is
likely the emotional side of our thinking kicks in and in a fairly large percentage
of cases causes us to 'go with the apparent majority'

And lastly the exposure of Barret in the last week and far right-wing leanings have
been very useful by the Yes campaign to paint the No campaign with the Neo-Nazi brush. In
the rush to dis-associate from the likes of Barret, the Yes campaign are aware in the
ensuing confusion, few will want to hear anymore from 'that side' and so for the Yes
campaign they will have succeeded in the last week, of keeping people away from the message
on the Left and the real truths they have exposed about this rotten treaty.

So effective has the strategy been, that last night I actually met somebody who thought
the whole NO campaign was only being promoted by the Right-Wing. He was completely un-aware
that sections of the Left were against it, because he incorrectly concluded that because
Labour were for it, then all of the rest of the Left were too. And when I told him about
Article 133 and the privatisation, he became visibly angry, that he had been had. So while
I picked up at least one No there, without access to the mass media, it will be hard get
our message out.

Maybe we need some kind of Direct Action to push the truth about NICE out above the
clamour of lies by the Yes cabal.

by barry - gluaiseacht Mon Oct 14, 2002 11:36

better not send european democracy too far diwn the toilet, when the nice treaty gets passed we'll have ceeded all governmental power to them, then it's just a matter of when things get implemented. eurojust, europol, limited human rights, etc. soon our american cousins will be freer than we are (first time they'll have fallen behind in the race to the bottom)

by Roo Mon Oct 14, 2002 08:40

Looks like it..Most people at the minute seem to think that it doesnt matter which way they vote their goin to get screwed anywase, one way or another. So why not just vote yes and keep everyone in charge happy??(even if it does mean sending European democracy down the drain...not that many average Irish people seem to give a shite about Europe...)