Herr Bush and Herr Hitler

by spin doctor Thu Nov 14, 2002 21:57

I would accept most of the explanation given above,most American and Isreali workers are just as brainwashed by their 'free' corporate media as were the Germans under Hitler. However the swp do make extremely crude points as one would expect them to do. This is just one way they have ensured that the anti war movement is totally ineffective and going nowhere here.

by MG Thu Nov 14, 2002 13:12

American worker,

If you read my earlier comment carefully, without editing the start of my sentences, you will see that I said *IF* American and Israeli workers are too blinkered to see that comparisons between Hitler and Bush's imperialist tactics, then that's their flaw. It cannot be blamed on Sinn Fein, it cannot be blamed on the SWP, it cannot be blamed on communism, it cannot be blamed on the entire left-wing movement.

I was making the argument that Hitler-Bush comparisons are perfectly valid, something you said annoys you. I was attempting to demonstrate WHY I believe such comparisons are valid. I was not trying to offend American and Israeli workers. But the fact remains that their media do not educate them about the reality of the global situation. They are fed pro-imperialist propaganda from the day they are born until the day they die and most of them swallow it hook, line and sinker (By the way, the same is true here in Ireland) Therefore, they are blinkered. I personally blame the US and Israeli Governments and the "free market" system for this, not the workers.

by iosaf - rts Thu Nov 14, 2002 12:46

It is they who suffer the policy of their state as well. It is they who are forced into uniform, it is they who are sent to occcupy some of the disputed setlements.
I remember recently posting a mail I had been sent by a Reclaim the Streets grouping in Isreal who try to organise rave parties on cross ethnic basis, they had previously "raved against the occupation" with 5000 young ordinary people listening to arab and israeli djs. Hardly politics but indicative as the earlier publication here of over 600 members of the Israeli academy saying "NO".
As indicative as the constant presence of disobedience in the Israeli state. I recieve s much correspondance from Israelis as Arabs both saying the same thing. IT is their state that terrorises. To use the semiotic devices of star of david equals swastika is to my mind anti-semitic and a sign of appaling fascism, it dismays me that so many anti-war pro-peace groupings in Europe have chosen to make such a connection, it is flawed and will not serve us any longterm good.
Heart and Mind.

by American Worker Thu Nov 14, 2002 11:07

"American workers and Israeli workers are too blinkered to see it, then that's their flaw."

That attitude is what I really hate. And unfortunatly it's all too common among many on the left.

The fact is that the USA working class are probably the single most important working class. They are the workers in the worlds greatest capitalist power. US workers experience great poverty, and are denied many basic social right and conditions that many Europeans enjoy.

Israel too has a working class that experiences great poverty. To write off the workers of USA and Israel is greatly idiotic. Without Israeli workers on your side there will be no middle east peace. Without USA workers there probably wont be a worldwide revolution!!

by MG Thu Nov 14, 2002 09:55

Mr American worker,

I think 'Post No Bills' was comparing the duplicity of Bush and Hitler, not their actions or policies.

Whether you like it or not, Hitler told the Brits that he had no territorial ambitions in Europe and then tried to take over the entire continent.

Bush has told the world that he has no territorial ambitions, but he has already installed a puppet in Afghanistan and is on the verge of doing the same in Iraq. My guess is that Iran or Saudi Arabia will be next.

This, in my view, is a valid comparison and if American workers and Israeli workers are too blinkered to see it, then that's their flaw.

by ..... Wed Nov 13, 2002 22:31

though anarchy found best ground to grow and develop in Europe due to the particular co-operative tradition of the western mediterrean, the unfurling of that flag did not go unfollwed in a noble tradition of american worker and oppresed resistance.
witness Mamu.
witness the black panthers.
witness the American Socialist party candidates who polled between 900,000 and 2000,000 votes between 1912 and 1934.
witness ACORN and the development of occupation ideas and tactics.
and we could go on.
Comparison of Hitler and Bush is as cliched as I believe the first writer to declare the above Robert Anton Wilson. I too rather dislike the equation of swastika star of david. It is symptomatic of shoddy thinking and any victory it would bring would be pyrhic.
Hitler did not reach power on the tails of his father. there are many similarities "enabling acts" "terrorist events" "lies" in foreign and defenc policy statements, but they are not really comparable.

by American Worker Wed Nov 13, 2002 19:59

To compare GW Bush with Hitler is absolutly mad! GW Bush is not a fascist nazi. He is a very bad version of a capitalist leader that is backed by some christian fundementalists in the US.

Hitler was a fascist, he was a nazi. Comparing him to GW Bush is blatently wrong.

As an American I really hate the way some elements of the left attack America. Yes, by all means, attack the US political and commercial elite. But to blatently attack them in a crude manner. Calling the American establishment "stupid white men" is correct, but using those words could alienate many ordinary white male americans.

Also the opposition to the US when it comes to the war on terrorism. I'm sick of the likes of the SWP putting out vitriolic anti-American and anti-Israeli propaganda. I'm opposed to these governments and their actions, but SWP do it such a crude way and do not try to get the support of ordinary US and Israeli citizens.

Those of the Left out there that are crude and label all Americans as rightwing capitalists why dont you see that the American working class are key in any workers' revolution!