Coffee N' Poltics Public Meeting!

by Pat Tue Nov 26, 2002 18:32

In Russia people were poor. But this is not because of Communism, it is beacuse the revolution was not international and international one and dengenerated in a relativly backward economy.

How can you claim that under capitalism we get what we earn? This is really a load of petty bourgeois individualist shit. In capitalism the more you work the richer your boss gets, not you. Under capitalism you will never get the full value of your labour.

by Communism is a Shit System Mon Nov 25, 2002 00:54

Communism: EVERYONE'S Poor.
Capitalism: Some are rich, some are poor.

"they all had food on the table, a job, and a house". I have all that, and more, thanks to our system. And at least I can get that through my OWN enterprise and work.

by Red Terror Sat Nov 23, 2002 20:05

So 'Communism Sucks' do you think you are free under capitalism? The USSR was completely undemocratic, they had no say in politics but at least they all had food on the table, a job, and a house. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater

by Dave Sat Nov 23, 2002 00:57

Congratulations on your really deep political thinking, I would urge you to continue your progress and take out a life subscription to the BEANO!!!

by Communism Sucks Fri Nov 22, 2002 13:20

...there's reason the whole Communist system fell. Because COMMUNISM IS SHIT. I like my freedom.

by Red Trot Fri Nov 22, 2002 12:44

"... most Irish or Palestinian workers who love their National flags."
Did you eveer stop and think that this could be a problem? Surely the workers movement needs to be international?

"The CPI are not going to set the world on fire "
The Stalinists already have set the world on fire, however the fire was not coming from the bourgeoisie it was coming from the workers. Stalinists have butchered and scuppered revolutions all over the place. Why don't you go away and die like your comrades in Russia and leave the workers movement to people that actually want to build it.

by @ Fri Nov 22, 2002 12:39

you know America through her movies, propaganda, historiography, logos, emails, websites, her aircraft that first landed with Lindburg in Mayo, her Presidents seven only one of whom invoked New Ross, her flag and her architecture on the Merrion Road some vicious slight to Joycean Lore.
Her propaganda and her hollywood is a poor imitation of any Hazel wand, any seanachaoi, as open to the wind as any naked emperor´s clothing.

hello!
we´re are assembling

by Depressed Fri Nov 22, 2002 00:32

Do any of ye ever find time to fight the system?

by Dave Thu Nov 21, 2002 23:36

Did you ask your Latvian buddies what their parents or grandparents did during WW11. Worked for the German fascist perhaps? engaged in a little ethnic cleansing as part of their contribution to the "final solution"? how many of them who served with the Latvian SS are still collecting pensions from the German state?
Incidentally, I meet victims of capitialism EVERY DAY, homeless, jobless or both!!!!!

by left bank Thu Nov 21, 2002 21:34

well, done Pat C. angry activist is just a sp or swp asshole, they are always doing their nut about Nationalism, Flags etc. They are totally out of touch with most Irish or Palestinian workers who love their National flags. The CPI are not going to set the world on fire but they are not as bad as these boring trotskisy nutters.

by Trotsky Thu Nov 21, 2002 20:42

Pat c you are right it is correct for Marxists to support national liberation struggles. However Marxists must have an independent working class line, something the stalinist CP never did. Just look at their criminal role in Spain, China... where they backed the 'national bourgeoisie' and as a result hampered many a revolution and lead to the butchering of thousends of the best workers. Stalinists only ever cared about the survival of their own bureacracy, they didn't really care about the workers. In fact they did not want world revolution as it would have lead to a political revolution in Russia which would have seen their overthrowing.

Socialism in one country - Bollocks!
Two stages - Bollocks!
Socialism needs to be international!
Long live the permanent revolution!

by pat c Thu Nov 21, 2002 18:27

the cp are correct to be republicans & support national liberation struggles its the marxist thing to do.

so angry activist, seeing as you seem to be a marxist, i suggest you read, marx engels, lenin and trotsky or stalin depending on your own slant on imperialism, nationalism, ireland & neo-colonialist.

you'll have to do a lot of twisting to find any support for backward pro imperialist sections of the working class such as you'd find in israel & the loyalists in the north.

by Israeli Worker Thu Nov 21, 2002 18:23

Why is it that some on the left think that there is no Israeli working class? there is and we are oppressed as much as any other working class.

by Angrier Activist Thu Nov 21, 2002 18:10

The palestinians over the Isralies.

But, they were never renowned for supporting the Republican cause in any tangible manner when they had a bigger membership & considerable influence in the Trade Unions.

by Angry Activist Thu Nov 21, 2002 17:59

The CPI seem to have a very nationalistic feel to their website. I've no problem with a bi-lingual site, in fact I welcome it! But are the CPI doing it to cater for the needs of Irish speakers or are they making a nationalistic point?

Also the flag of palestine. If the CPI were genuine marxists they would not support nationalistic flags and causes. Marxists should put forward symbols and flags of the palestinian worker, and the Israeli worker also!

Stalinist two-stage shit!

by Stalin hater Thu Nov 21, 2002 17:55

The CPI have more places on the NEC than members! join up and you'll fill a vacant seat!

The CP should realise by now that Stalinism is dead. People are opposed to the failed Stalinist tactics and methods.

The CPI only ever existed because the CP in the USSR bank-rolled them. Ever since the fall of stalinism they have had to sell books that are not just praising stalin. The CPI are a pathetic organisation that didnt even fill this role as main apologist for stalinism, the WP did that!

Even still with a whole layer of young people questioning capitalism the CPI are stuck into the mode of backing up stalinist regimes. Your main activity is backing up Cuba uncritically.

I could go on for ages about the failure of stalinism, but I wont waste my time. Ive better things to do, like build a real democratic socialist movement.

by Amused as fcuk Thu Nov 21, 2002 17:38

There is a photo of their entire membership on their website

by Ray Thu Nov 21, 2002 17:17

I'm all for former Stalinists realising that the exSU was just another dictatorship, but I'm wondering why the Cork members don't leave the organisation (or at least change its name)? Do they not feel that whatever positive things the CP may have done in the past (sending people off to fight fascism comes to mind) are far outweighed by its consistent support for a regime that murdered millions of workers and revolutionaries? At least the Trots will try to argue that this all happened after their hero was booted out* - what excuse do the CPers have?

*Its not true, but as long as they keep repeating it they can insist to themselves that the Bolsheviks really are worthy role models, Trotsky really was a great guy and all that repression was Stalin's fault, yeah, even the stuff that happened in 1917, because Stalin was _so_ evil his influence reached back in time la la la la la la la I can't hear you I can't hear you la la la la la la la

by pat c Thu Nov 21, 2002 17:06

the cork branch (nationalise de banks!)of the cp now produce a paper "red alert" in which they criticise their past behaviour.

you even have one line from cork members & another line from the cp general secretary (a rather grandoise title).

by IMC addict Thu Nov 21, 2002 16:53

that the CPI don't harass people at demos and are not trying to hijack and destroy every radical movement in this country.

by Communism Suck Thu Nov 21, 2002 16:53

I recently had the good fotune to meet 3 Latvians working in Ireland. During conversation, I asked them what they thought of Communism. To say they despised it would be an understatement. They were the delighted when the Communist system fell and they could finally embrace free-market economics, when they could finally promote their own enterprise, and had they freedom to work and travel where they wanted.

Perhaps the CPI could leave their nice Trinity-educated middle-class existence for a while and ask former victims of Communism what they thought of living under such an oppressive economic regime.

by pat c Thu Nov 21, 2002 16:48

this calls for a trot/trot/trot/trot/trot/trot united front.

it also requires an anarchist/anarchist/anarchist/anarchist united front.

these two can then combine to form a trot/trot/trot/trot/trot/trot / anarchist/anarchist/anarchist/anarchist united front.

perhaps the last time (crypto)trots & anarchists stood together & fought stalinists was in barcelona, 1937?

this may have happened in:

vietnam 1945 (remember ta thu tau!)?

Berlin 1951?

hungary 1956?

prague 1968?

anyway:

down with epignones!

smash the stalinist thermidor!

remember kronstadt! (but forget trotskys part in it)

strike together! march seperately!

by Alan Thu Nov 21, 2002 16:46

I bet the entire CPI membership is on its NEC.

by Ray Thu Nov 21, 2002 16:46

I'm trying to remember an essay I read recently where it was argued that people who come right out and say they're going to try to kill you are better than those who tell you they're on your side, and then try to kill you...

Any comparison I could make to the CPI (who'll come right out and say that the USSR was great and if you don't agree then the gulag is too good for you) and the SWP (who'll talk a lot about 'socialism from below', but seem to interpret that as 'we'll be in charge because we are right and anyone who disagrees is counter-revolutionary') would of course be completely without foundation, and just the kind of censorship* that anarchists are always trying to impose on those poor SWPpies.

*'Censorship' is the new word for criticism, of course. Send away for the authorised Newspeak dictionary today!

by Ray Thu Nov 21, 2002 16:24

I'll bet the whole of the city centre went dim when they connected that rotting corpse to the mains. I say we get our pitchforks and torches together and go storm Frankenstein's ca... er, Connolly Books. There are some forces man was not meant to meddle with!