Greenies pull an anti-war stunt in dail and walk out

by GreenPartyMike - Green Party USA Wed Jan 29, 2003 18:02 ollamhfaery at earthlink dot net

Thank you to the Greens for this political courage, stir it up continue the debate. As an aside there are now FIFTY cities that have signed Anti-War Resolutions. Ohio just added its name to the list. The list includes San Francisco and Chicago. Resistence is indeed growing. I will keep you all abreasted, including a movement here (of which I am a part of) called the Counter Propaganda Coalition who are organizing a response to the continual Pro-War, Corporate controlled media. The media here is beyond shameful in it's use as a propaganda mouthpiece for the pentagon. We are calling it Mass Perception Management. On TV there is NO Anti-War voices being heard. This country is now starting to polarize and although you would not know by the media we, the anti-war folks are in the majority.

by good stunt Wed Jan 29, 2003 18:46

They probably only did that because they know that the Socialist Party got in before them proposing a motion against the war. But fair play to them anyway.

by d Wed Jan 29, 2003 18:50

if you disagree with the government then you should debate with them and show them the fault in their logic... that means staying in the chamber....

i think this is a stupid thing for the green's to do...

by Graham Wed Jan 29, 2003 19:42

But the government doesn't want to have a debate, despite the constitutional requirement for them to do so. They said they would have a debate this week and now they've postponed it.

by Killian Forde - Sinn Fein Wed Jan 29, 2003 21:52

It is essential that the headlines, tv and radio, are dominated with anti-war actions, statements and support over the next couple of weeks.

The walk out by the Greens may help focus and, hopefully, activate their softer supporters into action.

Effective opposition to the war will hinge on all forms of the media being tangled up by being unable to dismiss the opposition as "cranks" or merely "lefties".

Bear in mind that the hugely popular tabloids here are still backing 'the war' and are powerful and influential on conventional discourse.

See ya all; whether Sinn Fein, Green, Socialist, Socialist Worker or Labour, pick on the 15th.

Together we can make that day the biggest demostration in Dublin since the early 80s.

by one more brain cell than that twit - irish citizen whatever that means Wed Jan 29, 2003 22:05 homeless

"Seamus Brennan said the Government would review the situation if the United States took unilateral military action against Iraq. "

IT WILL BE TOO LATE THEN SEAMUS YOU DUMB FUCK!! HAVE YOU A TIME MACHINE TO UNDO YOUR LACK OF COURAGE AND INACTION??

RESIGN NOW!!!

by fluffy R Thu Jan 30, 2003 00:56

Its now time for the fake labour party to follow the Green Party's example and walk out ot that talking shop. By the way the over paid wasters who call themselves TD's only went back to work today in the dail after their christmas holidays. So where are our extra holidays or a shorter working week?

by Intransigent Thu Jan 30, 2003 01:58

Forget the talk shop of the middle and upper classes. More often than not the debate for debate's sake occurs in front of an empty room. The Dail is little more than a debating chamber through which no action will ever be taken. Reformists must understand that working within the existant boundaries of a system can never lead to the creation of a new system. The previous system must first be destroyed so as to install a new order. War's about oil, profits, influence and domination. But you guys know that already. Just trying to let ya know the fultilty of the Dail.

by problem Thu Jan 30, 2003 07:47

the problem with debating them and showing them the faults in their logic is that it presupposes that they
a. are fundamentally well-meaning
b. honestly mistaken
c. willing to listen to reason

any or all of those points could be completely false assumptions on your part.

by Alan Thu Jan 30, 2003 11:00

While I congratulate the Greens for taking some action in relation to the Shannon situation, I think it would have been better if they'd refused to budge and demanded straight answers from the Taoiseach and his slimy ministers.

This would have forced an adjournment of the Dails business - first a recess, and if the disruption didn't stop, the session would have been adjourned and there'd probably a motion to suspend the deputies. But what if they still refused to move? Yes, SIX democratically elected deputies (plus Joe Higgins, Tony Gregory, Finian McGrath and Sinn Feiners) possibly 14 TDS in todal would have to be PHYSICALLY REMOVED FROM THE DAIL CHAMBER.

NO doubt the TV cameras would be switched off but it would be a fantastic display of civil disobedience inside Leinster House and would have got WORLDWIDE attention. A few paper placards is fine, but this situation demands more desparate measures (a la Mary Kelly, well done Mary!).

by red - sp Thu Jan 30, 2003 11:01

I would agree with your points that the Dail is an institution of the bourgeois. It is not a place where any real change can come from. But I think it is ultra-left to completly reject the idea of standing in elections, and if elected taking a seat and using the position as much as possible.

Joe Higgins was elected to the Dail and has constantly used the position as a platform for the SP's ideas. He has used to increase the profile of particular struggles in the workers' movement. Down through the years revolutionaries have used parlaimentry positions, eg Dave Nellist MP and Terry Fields MP during the poll-tax struggle. You are right to say parliament is not the way to change things, but I think it is ultra-left, or probably more correctly politically immature, to dismiss Parliament altogher

by iosaf Thu Jan 30, 2003 11:29

you have found the font of wisdom and used some of the resources of Solomon and shown contempt for the court.
You can hold your heads high for a while.
You may even think of yourselves as party-political-social-democratic-economic-indicator-tinkering JEDI for a few days.
(till the dust settles).
-------------------------------Now who´s next?

Mr Higgins is constant thorn in their side there and in a way I think he should stay and heckle the little rascals but a bit of a petulant walk out banging of shoe would make good TV.

But this is most mature political action be the Green Party and probably reflects well the feeling of the Green movement, be it in Ireland or mainland Europe or indeed the USA.

by Intransigent Thu Jan 30, 2003 13:28

Not against parliamentary elctions at all. Just don't agree with having your primary focus as building your electoral base. It's great that Joe Higgins can get into the Dail. But in a way it changes nothing. The real change will inevitably only come from the mass working classes. I understand that taking your seat in the Dail may be beneficial in the sense that you may hold up business or better yet bring up your ideas and the ideas of the left. However, don't expect to be listened to or as Joe put it last night, don't expect to be answered.

by OK - SP Thu Jan 30, 2003 13:45

I totally agree with the last posting by Intangient.

And I'd like to just say, it is totally wrong of some people on the left to think that the SP only go around building our electoral base. Just because we have been successful in winning votes and elected positions doesn't mean we are 'selling out'!