SF Protest for Leinster House - Thursday

by Moe Greene Mon Mar 31, 2003 22:43 moe4551 at hotmail dot com

How can anybody seriously consider Sinn Fein to be anti-war.
Are they not the spokesmen and apologists for (and often the members of) one of the most vicious and brutal organisations in the world, an organisation which is responsible for the death of thousands of people in Ireland over the past 30 years and for the horrific maiming of thousands of others, an organisation which set the standards of violence and brutality for every other criminal organisation in the country and which has terrorised many of the poorest communities in the country into submission.

Come on, don't be fooled by their cynical propoganda machine.
If you want allies, there are many genuine peacemakers about.

Moe

by Tim O'Brien - The Irish Times Fri Mar 21, 2003 12:40 tobrien at irish-times dot ie D'Olier Street D2. 01 6792022

Hi

I am seeking to make contact with the lady in red paint who left her mark on Senator Terry Leyden. Also If the lady who was pictured in today's paper earnestly making a point to Minister O'Donoghue could see her way to giving me a ring, I would like to talk.

Thanks to anyone who helps/passes on the message.

Tim O'Brien

by Richard - SWP Thu Mar 20, 2003 04:29

Heres the real truth why SF have sold us out!

Sinn Féin Donation Statement 2001
$295,740 Cheques FSF USA 67 Wall Street, New York, NY 10005.
$48,950 Cheques FSF Australia Leederville, Perth, Australia.

Seems to me like SF raise a massive amount of money in the US & Oz, I wonder how anti-US they’ll be now that the war in Iraq has started!

I’m sure their principals will come first!

by Intransigent Thu Mar 20, 2003 00:39

That SF only are opposed to the form of Imperialism that comes from the British government. No secret that they hate the Brits, and yes to the poster of the previous comment the Prods. But as has been utterred on many occassions Nationalism is a dead end. And no you don't talk to madmen and try and make threm listen because all YOU end up doing is making huge compromises.

by Pat c Wed Mar 19, 2003 19:19

SF are genuine anti imperialists, unlike the SP. At least SF are prepared to take on the Brits and the Prods up there. They might socialise with George Bush but as Justin said it is needed sometimes that you talk with these people.

by Justin watcher Wed Mar 19, 2003 18:39

SF have not mobilised seriously for Day X. This is a FACT Justin. Has every member in SF been contacted and encouraged to mobilise for Day X in their workplaces and schools etc? No thet have not.

I am active in the anti war movement and I know of people that are in SF that are in my workplace. They have done nothing whatsoever to help even after I approached them.

What about SF members in the schools and colleges? again SF have done nothing at all.

Everyone that visits indymedia know well that SF are not genuine about being active in the anti war movement, you know it too so why do you bother trying to pretend that this is no the case.

SF are not anti imperialists inreality. Genuine anti imperialists would mobilise among workers and the oppressed in order to combat imperialism. Do you not realise that imperialism rests on economic power, the only effective wat to challenge imperialism is through fighting their economic power and harming their profits through the workers movement. Nice cozy chats and elitist deals do not work. Remember James Connollys quote 'the cause of Ireladn is the Casue of Labour'??

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Wed Mar 19, 2003 18:15 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

Few points:

1. Justin-watcher, I didn't stick my head in the sand, I debated the issue but I can only spend a limited amount of time on indymedia all day and when a subject disappears off the top couple of pages I generally forget about it. I attach my email address specifically so those interested in debate or who want to contact me, can do so.

2. SF is serious about mobilising for Day X and your opinion on whether we are or not is irrelevant. SF is not here to live up to what other people want us to do or what other parties think we're capable of.

3. SF is an anti-imperialist party, but we're also aware that we need to negotiate with imperialist powers like Britain and the US to push forward the Peace Process in the North. I'm sorry if that upsets you. I'm not happy with it either, but I am able to recognise political reality, Your arguments suggest you are not.

4. If I am insulting it is in response to deliberate lies and personal abuse. I tend to enjoy debating with reasonable, intelligent people, rather than those indulging in soundbites and yelling things looudly rather than making a point.

5. Partnership. SF is the only significant political party to come out against Partnership and the issue is up for debate at our Ard Fhéis this year. In practice, APRN gives the pro and anti side equal space and then editorialises in terms of Partnership and occasionally in other issues such as Zimbabwae for example. I don't know what editorial you are referring to as the nes I am aware of editorialised against those deals. An Phoblacht is not an unbiased newspaper y any imagination, but it does try to provide other people's opinions every now and again.

I'm done with this, mail me with further comments.

by Justin watcher Wed Mar 19, 2003 17:21

Justin you did not debate with us on another thread about the fact that SF were sipping brandy by the fireside of the oval office while plans were being drawn up for the invasion of Iraq.

As usual on that thread when it got tough and you knew you could not justify your position you stuck your head in the sand made mutterings about the peace process and slagged off the other posters. YOu did not give any real justification for your party being there.

Justin, you know as well as I do that SF are not in any way serious about mobilising for Day X. SF are a fairly large party with a large membership and good resources behind thme. If they fully mobilised it would make a huge difference to the Day X mobilisations. It would be noticed by others in the movement. The fact is that SF have not been serious, they have left it up to a handfull of genuine types that exist in SF to do the work themselves while the TDs made noises in the Dáil to get the publicity. At least the SP and the SWP have mobilised properly and are serious about building for Day X.

The point made by Kenneth is very good. If SF are anti imperialists why are they hob nobbing with the biggest imperialist and whay are they letting the US get a foot hold into the North? Maybe its just British imperialism your opposed to?

by sucking satans cock Wed Mar 19, 2003 16:01

"Why are you bending over backwards for the largest imperial power..."
for the same reason Monica Lewinsky did....

by eamonn devil era Wed Mar 19, 2003 15:31

Well personally I do think that it's all very encouraging ... Sinn Fein are well on their way to becoming an established political party like Fianna Fail in their day.

Patience my friends, one day they may yet produce a great statesman on a par with CJH:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/2862457.stm

by Kenneth Owende Wed Mar 19, 2003 15:13 africanlion at hotmail dot com

The specture of Justin Moran haunts Europe....

Remember at the time of the budget? SF's little stunt in the Santa costumes. Justing you look very fetching in red!

I have to say that SF are hypocrites for going to the White House last week. At a time when the Bush administration are launching a vicious war on the people of Iraq you guys are enjoying brandy by the fireside with good ol' GW.

Even to say that you went for other issues (ie peace process). I thought you guys were anti-imperialist. Why are you bending over backwards for the largest imperial power to get a foothold into N. Ireland? Why do you accept cash from your US big business imperialist friends?

Justin, you know and I know that SF are not serious when it comes to mobilising for day X. You are happy to be in the Dail and make a few noises for Oireachtas Report. You are not serious on the industrial front. You do not have a position on 'Partnership'. Last time around An Phoblacht had an article for and an article against, and the editorial said to make up your own minds!

by liam mellowes Wed Mar 19, 2003 14:29

Having read your comments about the peace process, I now realise that it was inappropriate of me to criticise SF's participation in the Paddy's Day Circus- sorry I mean Celebrations ....

I had forgotten the peace process ....
You are right, if you chaps f**k up there, Uncle Sam might just loose the bap and drop a few MOABs to teach you a lesson ...

That's what can happen to people who don't decommission in time when they are told to ....

PS: Are my kneecaps safe now ?

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Wed Mar 19, 2003 13:40 migh_nuad at yahoo dot com

Well I had Bushmills myself but despite my best efforts George W wouldn't take a bit of it, preferring to stick to milk and other wholesome nourishment. We hung out and watched football for a while and discussed Bin Charges with us and we explained how we'd betrayed the left by opposing them when they wanted us to support them to give them something to accuse us of. Highlarious.

Oh, how we laughed.

by iosaf Muppet. Wed Mar 19, 2003 13:27

_Ye take yourselves too seriously.
don't youthink after almost a hundred years you could chill out a bit?
which Whiskey did ye drink last week at the White House?
how much money has been guaranteed for investment in the wee north?
how long do we have to wait for a new 'generation' in SF leadership?
or is the hypocrisy engrained?

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Wed Mar 19, 2003 12:23 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

Justin-watcher:
That first post actually isn't mine, though I'd have posted it if some-one else hadn't.

Aunties
Our TDs will be arguing the point inside but not all 166 TDs are speaking at the same time.

Justin-watcher/Liam Mellowes:
Our party is supporting the Day X walkouts and is mobilising our support base for it. But we have never run away from any field of struggle and we will be presenting our arguments in Leinster House. This does not mean we don't support the Day X walkouts. And I debated the GW Bush Patricks Day thing with other Indymedia users who in their anti-war passion have forgotten about other issues, like the Peace Process for example. Go look, not repeating myself.

by Justin watcher Wed Mar 19, 2003 12:10

That's the best you can do?

A token protest outside the dail on Day X. You are more concerned with your little debate in the Dáil than building for Day X work stoppages.

Will SF call on their supporters and members to organise work-time stoppages on Day X?

SF are not really opposed to the war. Only last week you guys were lording it up with GW Bush in the White House.

by liam mellowes Wed Mar 19, 2003 11:20

They didn't seem to be doing much protesting over in Washington on Paddy's Day ....

by Auntie WAr Wed Mar 19, 2003 11:05

I'd prefer to see the TDs in the Dáil arguing their case. Every TD protesting outside is one less TD harrassing the government inside.