Is violence necessary?

Friday May 10, 2002 19:06

by shane

is violence necessary?

i open this discussion with an open mind, and i ask is violence necessary for any REAL change, and i must emphasize not reformist, conservative change, but actual and thorough change in our circumstances as citizens of an unjust world. it looks like the gardai will be held accountable for what happened on monday. but if they had not brutalised the protestors would this have happened?
on the other side of the coin, should we use violence to achieve our aims? i was sickened by the pictures of robocop corcoran mauling kids who held up the peace sign. that says it all really doesnt it, the baton is always stronger than peace. i put it to you all that peaceful protests are all good and well, but when it comes down to it violence wins out in every situation. anyway the majority of protestors belonged to left-wing groups, many of whom preach worldwide revolution. how is this to be achieved, by asking nicely for justice........with a cherry on top?

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Comments (8 of 8)

open mind

by shammy shane

Fri May 10, 2002 20:38

You're taking the piss surely. Unless you've had a brain transplant or you're not connected to the other shane who repeats the same mantra - everyones a fascist but me

Violence is needed

by Comrade Jim

Fri May 10, 2002 20:46

Just one worh martyr. It all their is needed to force real change. Peaceful protest against the ones who uses violence.

Picture this 10,000 demostraters in china and on the other side soliders. The first wave of demostrater walk on their marach and the Army shoots them then the next wave and the next wave each person falling is recruiting 10 more or the Army will relise it can't win and change side either way we have won.

Just look at India..... Martain Luther King. MARTYRS are more effective than a dead cop.

Both

by Cormy

Fri May 10, 2002 21:07

whizine at hotmail dot com

That's not a clear question, and the answer has to be that both are the answer, depending on the situation. For insance, on one hand look at Ghandi's non-violent stance and what it gained in that situation. In the middle, look at the non-violent direct actions that took place in Seattle, Prague, etc and the success that came from that. And on the other hand look at the various large scale uprisings against governing opressors throughout the course of history. In my opinion, at this point in time, it would take a mixture of all three, and that's exactly why we have to remember who the real enemy is and not be sidetracked by impotent & pointless discussions on peaceful versus forceful tactics, and scapegoating those whose tactics we don't agree with. The whole reason that the forces of authority worldwide have not been able to successfully undermine the surge in anti-capitalist activity over the last few years is because of our diversity and propensity to twist and turn changing to suit the situation. Personally, I think that those with money & power in the early 21st century ar NOT going to give it up, and will fight us every way, be it "democratically", through politics and propaganda, or on the streets. This power will most likely have to be taken from them physically and given back to the people, and if you completely rule that option out, then they've already won. We already know that they're willing to maim and kill to keep the power in the hands of the few...the question is, are we willing to fight them back?

ironic

by john

Fri May 10, 2002 23:18

your isolation of the above guard is in total contradiction of your beliefs, civil rights were totally ignored for garda corcoran as a result of the abuse his family and friends will have to endure over the next few weeks. If garda corcoran was unprovoked then his actions were over the top, but until we know the fulll facts no conclusion can be taken from his actions, there werea number of incidents against the garda which indymedia failed to capture on videotape. ironic.

It ain't the Late Late

by Harry Pollit

Fri May 10, 2002 23:38

Difficult for people to comprehend, so used they are to being passive consumers/workers/voters etc.. (and I include myself in that), but John you are Indymedia. If you observed or have empirical evidence of attacks on garda post it to this site. Why not take photos of gardas being attacked and post them here. No one is stopping you. Then you can't complain.

my 2C

by ste

Fri May 10, 2002 23:39

to john.
I don't see any batons in any of the hands of those people that garda was beating up. that's prove enough for me.

To Shane.
I'd have to admit to aggreeing with Cormy. I've been pretty much deadicated to non-violence in my protesting so far.
But when the time comes I don't think the boys are going to give over the power without a fight.

@ pink & silver perspective=:-)

by da sista agogo

Sat May 11, 2002 05:01

Why pink & silver?... well 'cause Rosie said...

silver is for clarity / pink is for passion

the Pink and Silver tatics are growing and becoming more diverse. Let's recognise
our differences and that diversity will be a stronger force of resistance.

We do not put ourselves opposite to the black bloc. We are all on a spectrum, and we're moving. If we have to protect ourselves we will.

In Prague, three blocs worked together and achieved a common goal with an organic diversity of tactics.

Do you think they shut down the IMF summit because our dancers from Tactical Frivolity got into the delegates hotel and started drinking their champagne, or was the coordinated ferocity of the black bloc something to do with it ?

Clearly we seek a peaceful option. We will go round police defences where we can. We are more effective when we follow the path of least resistanceactually. . Obviously the whole non-violence debate is more complicated now,
but we wont get stuck in the pacifist dilemma.

Our Carnival is insurrectionary, we hope there'll be more dancing than fighting, but lets not forget the goal is the dissolution of power, and the current holders will fight back.

So i hope we can maintain a healthy debate and work towards a common goal.

No party but the proletarian partyings

C'yas in Strasbourg?

Oops posted our link wrong =:-)

Sat May 11, 2002 05:08

the right link for rhythms is:
http://www.rhythmsofresistance.co.uk/

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Is violence necessary?

Comments (8 of 8)