One in five use Irish daily

by Roy Mon Sep 06, 2004 11:54 onkel1994 at hotmail dot com

Hi,

this is an old thread, but however I wish to add some few of my language experiences.

I am a native Norwegian-speaker, and visited Galway yesterday for the very first time. I chatted with a girl on a pub, and she said: "Your English is very good."
Well, I explained her how children learn English in my home country, and the reason why virtually every child and adult below a certain age in Norway can speak english fluently if needed: In Norway is the television programmes, and movies, in contradiction to other countries in Europe, not dubbed, but displayed with subtitles.
Due to that, most children know good english in the age of 8-9, and when English is introduced in school at the 4.th junior level, at the age of 10, the teachers usually have a very easy job.
I've noted that many in your country complains that too much time is spent on complex grammar, without learning how to actually speak the language.
Well, my first English class when I was ten was starting with singing the children song "If you're happy and you know it, clap your hands" - no grammar at all!
Of course, grammar and rules are introduced, but in a careful manner in the early stages, with increasing importance in the higher levels.

I have also studied russian language, both on College, and by living in Russia in three months, and I can assure you that learning a language only by studying complex grammar is like trying to learn to play chess by only studying the rules. Before the 3 month stay in Russia, could I read and write Russian, but was not capable of actually speaking and understanding it orally before after 6-8 weeks in Russia. The first weeks was awful, that is something of the toughest experience I lived trough in my whole sinful life, but after that was I capable to communicate, and to day, by using internet resources and using the proper technique, am I still able to communicate with russianspeakers once a month here in Dublin, with a better performance than when I left Russia, eventhough I don't use it on a daily basis.

I know about military schools in Norway, that guarantee, that if you pass, you can speak Russian fluently with a vocabulary at no less then 10 000 words! The technique they utilize is besides using ordinary grammar training, also orders the students to memorize one A4-piece of written text every day, and repeat it by heart the next day simultaneously as they understand the meaning of it - it is not like parrot talking.
Of course, this is a very extreme way of learning, and is only possible due to strict millitary dicipline and very skillfull and top motivated students.

However, maybe it is a question of technique?
If you wish to learn the language fluently, you don't learn word by word, but by learning complete frazes and sentences that can be combined - the human brain treat the frazes like objects, and the more different frazes and expressions you learn, the more versatile can you combine them. When I need to recall a word in Russian, I just think about a fraze that contains the word, strap it out, and construct a new sentence with the word on the fly.

So, maybe the academic style of studying language is a little bit outdated? Maybe we should learn be the experience of those like me, who have taugh a 3th language almost fluenty as adults? Look to the military intelligence services around the world - they would never have employed those technique's if they didn't work - the militaries are not stupid, eventhough they are in a dirty business;)
I don't mean running a junior school with military dicipline, but maybe we can start using the same pedagogical principles?

And besides, much is dependent of the attitude of the parents. My grand mother was a Saami speaker, the language of the indigenous people of the North, but that language died out in my family, because she didn't talked it to my mother when she was a baby. However, even in my country, attitudes are changing, and most young families in the Saami areas speak the language to their children, simultaneously as they get compulsory education in school.

regards
Roy

by Seosamh Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:45

For starters the fact that three quarters of those admitting they spoke Irish on a weekly basis are schoolgoers shows that, even accepting these figures, the fraction of adults how have left school and speak Irish weekly is only one in twenty. The next question is what percentage of these hold meaningful conversation in the language as opposed to using the cupla focal, such as "Slán leat" at the end of a phone call.

No way are there 1.57 million fluent Irish speakers. If the number exceeds 250,000 I'd be surprised. That would be made up mainly of teachers, civil servants and the few who have a genuine belief in Irish as a living language.

Caith me ceithre blian deag sa scoil ach to an chuid is mo den ghaeilge caillte agam. D'fhag me an scoil fiche blian o shin.

I do make an attempt to speak Irish now and then even though it's very rusty and I am interested in the language before anyone accuses me of being another Gaeilge basher. People should just accept reality and accept that the method of teaching the language in this country over the last 70 years has been a disastrous failure. While I am an implaccable opponent of the Israelis vis a vis their policy towards the Palestinian people, at least they've really done something in the area of reviving their own language(s). Maybe we could take a leaf out of their book, if not their racist, sectarian and imperialist politics.

by PH Pearse Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:48

I'd like to believe this figure, but it is patently false. Walking around Dublin, I would doubt that I hear the language spoken on the streets even once a month. So the definition of "use" is meaningless--it assumes that I am "using" the language if I passively recognized cupla focal here and there. But just reading "An Lar" on a bus don't amount to a hill of beans, as the Americans might say. Ta an Ghaeilge ag fail bhais, agus ni feidir e a sheanadh.

by Seán Fri Jul 18, 2003 09:49

Dúirt Seáinín, "Silim go dtabharfadh líon lucht éisteachta RnaG pictiúr níos cruinne ar an líon daoine a labhraionn gaeilge sa teaghlach."
B'fhéidir ach ansin fágfa roinnt mhaith de lucht labhartha na Gaeilge sna Sé Chontae, i Rathcairn, i mBaile Átha Cliath srl. amach, mé féin san áireamh.

Ach tá an ceart maraon le gach suirbhé a ndéantar faoi aon teanga tá sé deacair figiúirí beachta a fháil.

Pointe is do na 26 contae amháin atá na figiúirí thuas. Tá pobal na Gaeilge sna sé chontae ag dul ó neart go neart.

by Seáinín Fri Jul 18, 2003 02:42

Na daoine a mheasann go bhuil siad ina ann Gaeilge a labhairt, silim nach mbíonn an eolas acu níos mó ná 'ba mhaith liom guinness eile' agus cupla nathanna eile. Táim amhrasach ar fad faoi na daoine a bhíonn ag maíomh go bhfuil eoals maith acu ar an nGaeilge.

Is deacair í a fhoghlaim agus a labhairt, tá níos mó scrúdú de dhíth ar an méid Gaeilge agus an saibhreas líofacht atá ag an bpobal.

Silim go dtabharfadh líon lucht éisteachta RnaG pictiúr níos cruinne ar an líon daoine a labhraionn gaeilge sa teaghlach.