Fascist Europe takes shape

by kokomero Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:34

Unfortunately we will also be required to have biometric information embedded in our passports from next year for visits to the US if I'm not mistaken.

Whereas I agree with the thrust of your post and the civil liberties implications, I do not believe it will be practical for them to implement such a police state as it will simply cost too much.

We can see that even on measures which would generate revenue for the state and improve our quality of life such as the traffic corps, fiscal considerations make the government reluctant to take them on.

As for the border with the North the Germans wouldn't stand any more chance than the Brits did in controlling movement accross the border.

by prankster Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:54

I agree with the previous postee when they reckon it would cost too much to have the biometric info on our licences or personal ID. We haven't even progressed onto credit card drivers licences yet, and with the reluctance of the government to set up a traffic corps, I can't see any of this happening for a long time. OK, so most of the governments in Europe are fascist, but this sort of thing is a long way off. Sure would be interesting having german border guards between the Rep. and NI though, but would it be better than having English soldiers there? And would the Spanish fishing fleet, who are so fond of grabbing our fishies, get along better if the maritime patrols were all spanish? Nah, can't see this happening, although if it does, James, you reserve the right to say 'I told you so'.

by Gaillimhed Tue Aug 26, 2003 13:40

And we in Europe should know better than to ignore warnings like these.

seems unlikely...
nah theyd never do that
...must be a long way off...
it'd never happen here

how many times in history have we heard that?

the more things change the more they stay the same.

James, any chance of a reference or two?

by JMcK Tue Aug 26, 2003 13:45

"I told you so"!

by Anonon Tue Aug 26, 2003 14:27

And the boy cried wolf!!!!!

by Abu Hilal Tue Aug 26, 2003 15:54

Wolf atrocities against us sheep sould not be denied. Wolves exist and they are sharpening their fangs......

http://www.eubusiness.com/afp/030825164643.h6pjevz8

http://www.eubusiness.com/afp/030823204920.85izw1ot

http://www.ueitalia2003.it/EN/Notizie/giustiziaAffariInterni/Notizia_07201610753.htm


http://www.expatica.com/germany.asp?pad=190,205,&item_id=33704

by Seáinín Wed Aug 27, 2003 04:08

Europe's been inundated with riff-raff coming here uninvited. And yes, you people are sheep, glad you admit it.

by Wed Aug 27, 2003 09:25

I know we are not supposed to feed the trolls, but I, and a lot of other visitors to this site, would be happy to shove an entire raw turnip down Seainins throat, both literally and metaphorically.
You are a sad, sad creature, Seainin. Go and get some help to deal with your deformed personality.

by Stephen - SP Wed Aug 27, 2003 15:46

What was the name of the Irish guy shot? I'm sure it got major media coverage in Ireland. I mean really, being shot for using the wrong coins!

Now, I wouldnt want anyone thinking you made that up so give use: location, approx date and name of shootee. That way we can do a search to help you if you cant remember the name.

by Rapper Tandy Wed Aug 27, 2003 15:55

You are damaging your own credibility and that of others with your crap about cops shooting people for misusing 5p coins. This sort of fantasy only helps the State.

by Andy Wed Aug 27, 2003 18:47

James-which side are you on? You seem to have a decent pro immigrant stance but the anti-german sterotypes, whats that all about, fuck the police and all that but dont use FHM level xenophobia to strenghten your hand. Against one type of racisim and for another it seems.

by iosaf Wed Aug 27, 2003 19:00

is indeed led by the German police forces. I am unaware of any case of 5p/1dm leading to shooting, but I am aware that German police have used "resisting arrest" to shoot many people in their transport system. So much so, that one is generally well advised "never skip your fare in Germany!".

unlawful killing in UK:
http://inquest.gn.apc.org/unlawful.html
just to give you an idea of the ethnic breakdown of unlawful killing in the U.K.
also a statewatch bulletin of 2001 focussed on German unlawful killing of "aliens".
http://www.statewatch.org/contents/swbul11n2.html
All apologies to James, but I don't want to add anymore to this thread, as I don't really like the inference. I did make mention of the joint Spanish/Italian border changes in a Sunday article (Sunday articles are never really up to scratch):
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=60500
These matters will come up for EU discussion next year and under Irish "chairmanship". Thus I believe people ought be well-informed.

So get informing.

by James McKenna Thu Aug 28, 2003 09:28

Didn't det the guys name, he was wriggling in pain at the time, but he had a friend with him from Carrick-on-Shannon. I believe they may have had a hotel in Carrick at the time? Don't know if it made news in Ireland or not. It was July 1981 in the middle of Heidleberg, Germany .

I was almost arrested for crossing a deserted street in a village near Heidleberg, also at the same time. The "red man" was showing but being Irish and since the street was deserted I thought it rediculous to stand and wait but stepping onto the deserted street a politie car chased me down and demanded ID. Luckily I had a passport on me (by chance) so they let me go with a severe warning, once I showed I was a good boy, was very sorry and had learned my lesson.

Another day on my way home from work in the same town the cops cut me off on the sidewalk with a car ala NYPD and demanded I spread eagle against a wall be frisked and give up my passport which again I luckily had on me. When finished they took off without a word of apology, just like Irish cops. I asked them if there had been a rape or a robbery or something and they just shrugged and said "no, just routine".

Italian and Spanish police have a similar ethos.

by Lone gunman Thu Aug 28, 2003 12:35

Its like this in Germany; in 1981 Germany had a small terrorist problem called the Red Army Faction.Spoilt middle class German kids playing at left wing terrorism.
Their leaders Andreas Baader and Ulrike Meinhoff finally did the decent thing for humanity and topped themselves in Stammheim prision after the German GSG9 offed a bunch of their scummy pals who hijacked a Lufthansa jet to Mogadishu.
Anyway, RAF had made some contacts with our lot the IRA about "cooperation of the armed struggle of the workers"Or some sort of left wing terrorist drivel along those lines.
The IRA in all fairness told them to basically fuck off and grow up.Funnily enough that meeting was supposed to have taken place around Heidelberg. A very known RED university and a known haunt for RAF.So that might have some explanation as to this mishap.IF of course you are telling the true story. If he was shot,there will certainly be a record of that Germans are regular bears for paperwork.Nope ,there is nothing in the papers about that.
As to crossing on the red man.
Yes that happens.Thats why there not very many pedestrian deaths in Germany.[wish we would enforce our Jay walking laws over here as well].

And Yes it is an accepted norm in most European countries to have some sort of ID with you.Drivers lic in Germany dont cut it as IDs BTW.
Ireland is the last country where it is not mandatory to carry personal ID YET!Somthing worth fighting for that we keep that liberty.

As for been spreadeagled "NYPD style".Hmmmmm I think there is somthing else there James,that you might not be telling us?

OTOH Germans now do take the chance and cross on red occasionally.The trains are now running appx ten mins late.Used to be able to set your watch by them,and the place is becoming a recessed,expensive state.Funnily all this happened when the red/ green colation got into power.

by James McKenna Thu Aug 28, 2003 14:21

Anyone read about these incidents in the papers?

And to all the fascists who have expressed their support and made excuses for the fascist behaviour of the Politie , the Braunschweig immigration authorities and the German Federal Border Police (BDS)......may God forgive you!

http://www.geocities.com/demo4alles/uk/info/business.html

http://www.basicrights.de/police-brutality/Aschaffenburg_police.html

http://de.indymedia.org/2002/12/36729.shtml

http://www.basicrights.de/police-brutality/arnstadt_en.html

http://www.basicrights.de/police-brutality/ramanou-alietou_en.html

PS .To clarify an allegation from "Lone Gunman": there was never any contact between the PIRA and BadeR/Meinhoff. Of course if you don't believe me you could ask some of the "IRA men" of the time who are now doing so well in the Irish Labour Party. Maybe those Labour Party "Official" IRA men were too busy blowing up cleaning ladies in Aldershot or studying to pass the bar to be aware of what was going on in Germany ? The big question is, will they form a coalition with Fine Gael and the PD's next election time! Still wouldn't amout to a piece of doggie-do-dah!

by Lone gunman Thu Aug 28, 2003 21:58

The first is The German border police is not BDS anything It is Bundesgrenzshutz or BGS.
also James maybe you should ask, or read Tim Pat Coogan's book the provisional IRA.[updated version] Classified both here and abroad as the definitive work on that group.But no doubt that wouldn't be good enough for you.So I doubt very much that SF would know anything about this.

Hmmmmmmm...intresting sites you quote,all reddish German sites,apart from indymedia. Sort of like looking up SF site for an unbiased view of the NI problem.

So what did YOU do in Heidelberg in 1981 James??
Schnell vit you ansver.Or ve will haf zer vays of making you talk Irisher Schweinehund!!!

[As clichied German as "top o the mornin",and "begorrah!" is to the irish]

by iosaf Tue Sep 02, 2003 13:52

I have crossed without incident a frontier.
I entered France without papers without passport honestly without intent, quite by accident, and found in place of barbed wire, in place of armed border guards a sleepy hamlet. The children spoke Catalan, the taxi driver at the railway station spoke catalan to his passengers who then spoke french, there was no visible difference, no descernible demarkation of a frontier that has meant war, salvation and liberty for so many.
I returned to the spanish side by train noting the little plaque erected in 1993 to "the republicans of spain who passed through this station on the route of their exile january 1939".

I mused that it took them over fifty years to raise the plaque, I further mused that Orwell and his wife had already left by a different pass in a first class carriage "dressed as bourgoise".
[final chapter of homage to catalonia]

Those men and women who made it january 1939 were not the first nor the last. Today the last town of "Spain" hosts "sin papeles" mostly morrocons and west africans awaiting the right moment to cross a border without guards to make their way north to Paris or east to Marseilles.
IN so doing they leave a political constituency that boasts complete ERC (republican catalan left) representation [no opposition] to a constituency the other side of the valley that boasts councillers of the Front Nationale of Le Pen.

I saw neither guards nor barbed wire but knew something none the less.... ne plus ultra.

The Borders are where we meet the guards.
maybe they happen on the road to Toulouse, or the bus to Paris, or the quays of Dublin just after the boat docks. But they are still there, with the men paid to guard them.