European Media's Anti-Semitism

by wibble Mon Sep 01, 2003 22:48

surely theres a difference between sympathising with the palestinians and anti-semitism?

i understand concern at bias in the media, but isn't your article just as biased in the opposite direction? for example, i believe you're downplaying the effect of the wall - "at worst expropriating land...severing certain Palestinian towns and villages from commercial activity". These are no small problems and should not be so understated.

by Torque Wench Mon Sep 01, 2003 23:35

First of all, I think Israel's supporters need to distinguish between criticism of state policy and attacks on the Jewish faith.
People criticise Israel for state-sanctioned murder and the systematic oppression of a people and this somehow equates to anti-semitism? I'd like to know YOUR definition of anti-semitism.
I don't think the history of Israel can be summed up in nice tidy absolutes of right and wrong. It can't be said to be either "Good" or "Evil". It has commited terrible atrocities and continues to act in bad faith in regards to achieving peace in that region. But it has also been the victim of aggressor states around it in the past and has had to contend with Islamic fundamentalism.
The Jewish people have suffered terribly and noone here is denying the horror of the holocaust but your evocative description of the Nazi holocaust is no justification for Israel's holocaust of Palestine. It's like a child thats been abused and grows up to be a bully.
As for anti-Israel reporting in the European media, I have found the European media to be far more level handed than the American media which consistently censors any story with anti-Israel sentiment. After all, when an Israeli helicopter gunship destroys and entire apartment block, killing 15 people, nine of them children, just to kill one "suspected militant" it's hard not to see Israel in a negative light. Though I do concede that there is alot of Anti-Semitism in the world, I don't believe it to be the motivation for the critics of Israel - rascists usually target the people not the state and I suspect most skinheads couldn't find Israel on a map anyway.
Nazi comparisons are pretty hard to avoid though, when Israeli soldiers detain Palestinians in illegal prison camps and write prison numbers on their foreheads with magic marker. Israel's state policy is also becoming increasingly rascist with a new law being enacted where-by if a Palestinian from outside Israel marries a Palestinian living inside Israel, the couple must either leave the country or live apart! Though this is an outrageous law, Israel justifies it (as they justify the wall and indeed most of their actions) by claiming it is necessary to protect themselves from terrorists wishing to infiltrate their country. But just to put it in perspective - over the years around 100,000 Palestinians have gained Israeli citizenship through marraige. Of this number, 20 have turned out to have been terrorists.
I have nothing against Jews or Judaism, infact I can understand why Israel's population are so willing to accept its government's brutal tactics. I sympathise with these people who must wonder every time they get on a bus if they're going to get blown up. But Israel's self-destructive policy towards Palestine, its treatment of both Palestinians and its own people, its flagrant disregard for human life and its reckless authoritarianism can't just be swept under the carpet by saying all Israel's critics are anti-semites and bigots.

by palmiro togliatti Tue Sep 02, 2003 00:42

dar ndóigh bainim sult i gcónaí as ábhar ón Jerusalem Post a léamh, ach tá suíomh idirlín dá gcuid féin acu agus is air sin a mbíonn mo thriall nuair a bhím ag iarraidh a leithéid a dheanamh, chan ar ICS na hÉireann. Níl sé tuigthe i gceart agam ca na thaobh go mbeadh an t-alt seo ar fán ar an suíomh seo...

by Kev Tue Sep 02, 2003 01:15

Ireland has its own anti semitism as the above link will show.

by kokomero Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:00

Contrary to the posters view anti-semitism is not mainstream, and in this country it is reduced to a few attention-seekers like David Noone, who are being ignored by the vast majority.

While not being anti-semitic in any way the majority of the Irish people are sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. We are also familiar with crude propaganda which attempts to discredit entire national liberation movements from our own experience.

Trying to cast all those who disagree with Israeli policy towards the Palestinians as anti-semites, and attempting to blacken the name of the Palestinian people and cause will fail as any student of history will agree.

Israel's supporters would make much better use of their time and effort if they pressured the Israeli government into a peace agreement with the Palestinians whose only desire is for peace in a country of their own.

by David Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:43

I know from speaking to a lot of people that one of the main reasons people might look poorly on jewish people is because they are always accusing everybody of anti-semitism and it's just getting annoying. I don't care what religion a person has, (personally i think all organised theocracies are misguided) But I have a real problem with the concept of zionism.
Anti zionist is the appropriate label for most people who are accused of anti semitism just because the majority of zionists are jewish.

Think about it this way. If during the crusades or the reformation a jewish or muslim person stood out against the atrocities being committed in the name of the catholic heirarchy should they be accused of anti-christianism?

The comparisons between jews and nazis is, admittedly, often meant in a racist and abusive way, but looking beyond the sensitivities, the state of israel is following similar policies to those pursued agaisnt by the nazi german government circa 1940. The state of israel is just as valid a target for outrage as any other state or corporation in the world. Just because it's a jewish nation does not mean it's immune and it's getting annoying being called an anti-semite every time somebody condenms the ethnic clensing of the palestinian people

by Ali la Pointe Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:43

The only evidence of Anti-Semitism I can detect in the examples cited in the above (out-of-date and C&P)article is in the cartoons which are reported to portray "Jews" as the crucifiers of Palestinians - nasty because it resonates with the the anti-semitic "crucifiers of christ" comments of the likes of OJ Flanagan. The rest is just straight forward criticism of Israel, whether you think it's valid or not. For example Portraying Sharon as a baby eater is valid lampooning, there is nothing anti-semitic about it. (And BTW he is a war criminal. That's not conjecture, it's a fact.)

The article finishes with a quote from the attention seeking carpetbagging political clown Conor Cruise O'Brien. It the kind of unfounded normative assertion that might sound good in the Jerusalem Post, but it doesn't hold any water with me. For the record, I don't think Zionists or Israelis are Nazis (and no such assertions are not anti-semitic) but the IDF, Zionists ideologues, Colonists and the Israeli State are carrying out the systematic oppression of Palestinians. It is wrong. Apologists for Israel's agressive policies have appropriated the memory of the Shoah to shield themselves from criticism for what the are doing. That's abit like the Irish in south Boston citing the Great Hunger to claim immunity from blame or responsibility for purging African-Americans. It is an insult to the victims and survivors of the Holocaust.

by query Tue Sep 02, 2003 15:04

Can you give one specific example of a cartoon published in an Irish paper where Jews, or Israelis, are portrayed as "killers of Christ"?

by Avi H. Tue Sep 02, 2003 15:55

Those who speak do not know, those who know do not speak.

by Ali la Pointe - an t-intifada fáda Tue Sep 02, 2003 16:59

Those whose arguments do not hold water corrall and shoot their adversaries.

by Makhnist Wed Sep 03, 2003 07:28

So you actually expect the European media to show the "truth"?
The only reason the EU is bashing Israel is in order to get control at what the US holds in the region.
It`s like saying that France opposed the war in Iraq because they`re peace-loving.
haha

by kokomero Wed Sep 03, 2003 09:52

There is no conspiracy by the European media, they are simply telling things as they are in common with many Israelis and Jews who are not afraid to speak out.

As for the assertion that the EU wants to control a region "controlled" by the US, I see very little evidence of any control.

You've got Iraq, Afghanistan and the occupied territories that are completely out of control, a full blown nuclear arms race between India and Pakistan, the Kurds fighting a guerilla war for their own state ... need I continue?

If this is what is on offer from the US it is the kind of "control" we and the world can do without.

Israel being tied economically to the US makes as much sense as Cuba relying on the Soviet Union, ie NONE. The reason the EU is trying to bring the Israelis to heel is obviously a precursor to allowing them to join the EU. Obviously under the present circumstances where Israel is attempting to ethnically cleanse the occupied territories this cannot happen.

by Makhnist Thu Sep 04, 2003 01:38

The EU has a bit of control in the region,it managed to get control over Lebanon and Syria, and it is not a secret that the money from the EU to support the Palestinians goes to terrorists, but it`s not because the EU hates Israel, it`s because it wants control!
The reason they opposed the war on Iraq was because the Iraqi oil fields were under the control of French businessmen.

by Makhnist Thu Sep 04, 2003 01:39

Oh, I forgot, the European media has showed not once news reports on Israel which were complete bullshit.
Eh, massmedia.

by kokomero Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:22

Eventually Israel will have to come round to dealing with it's neighbours as the US will not be able to maintain it in the style it has become accustomed to forever, as the Soviets couldn't support the Cubans forever.

Instead of supposing what the EU might want in its relations with Israel from your own preconceived perspective try informing yourself and you will see that the EU has a benevolent interest from the point-of-view of any but the most die-hard Zionists.

From the offical EU website: http://europa.eu.int/comm/external_relations/israel/intro/

In terms of the political policy of the EU it is covered by the Euro-Mediterranean Partnership which focuses three objectives:

1). creation of an area of peace and stability based on the principle of human rights and democracy

2). creation of an area of shared prosperity through the progressive establishment of free trade between the EU and its Mediterranean partners and amongst the partners themselves

3). improvement of mutual understanding among the peoples of the region and the development of a free and flourishing civil society

The domestic Israeli market is tiny so the Israeli economy is reliant on foreign trade for its survival. In spite of the fact that Israel is the only country in the world that has FTAs with both the U.S. and the EU, America is it's biggest export market even Europe's is the natural outlet for Israeli products.

"But the outbreak of Palestinian unrest in late September 2000 with a worsening security situation and the declines in the tourist sector was further aggravated by the global high-tech crisis. GDP declined in 2001 and 2002.
In addition to that Israel’s unemployment shows an upward trend. Its balance of payment deficit has grown, and growing expenditures on security put pressure on the budget. Additional information on Israel’s economic situation can be found on the following DG ECFIN site."

"The EU firmly believes in Israel’s right to live in peace and security. It has condemned, in the clearest terms, terrorism and all acts of violence.
In this respect, the EU has pointed out the Palestinian Authority's responsibilities in fighting terrorism. The EU will continue to press the Palestinian Authority, as the governing body responsible for maintaining law and order in the Palestinian territories, to do everything possible to prevent terrorist acts, bring to justice perpetrators of criminal acts and dismantle all terrorist networks.
The EU continues to call on Israel to withdraw its military forces and stop extra-judicial killings, to lift the closures and all restrictions imposed on the Palestinian people, and to freeze settlement activities. A lasting peace settlement can only be based on respect for international law, including resolutions 242 and 338 of the Security Council of the United Nations."

by kokomero Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:46

http://zena.secureforum.com/Znet/chomsky/ni/ni-c10-s20.html

Noam Chomsky:

There is no space to comment here on the vicious racist depiction of Arabs in novels, television, cartoons and cinema.

The leading official monitor of anti-Semitism, the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai Brith, interprets anti-Semitism as unwillingness to conform to its requirements with regard to support for Israeli authorities.

These conceptions were clearly expounded by ADL National Director Nathan Perlmutter, who wrote that while old-fashioned anti-Semitism has declined, there is a new and more dangerous variety on the part of "peacemakers of Vietnam vintage, transmuters of swords into plowshares, championing the terrorist P.L.O.," and those who condemn U.S. policies in Vietnam and Central America while "sniping at American defense budgets."

He fears that "nowadays war is getting a bad name and peace too favorable a press" with the rise of this "real anti-Semitism." The logic is straightforward: Anti-Semitism is opposition to the interests of Israel (as the ADL sees them); and these interests are threatened by "the liberals," the churches, and others who do not adhere to the ADL political line.114

Anti-Semitism, in short, is not merely conflated with anti-Zionism, but even extended to Zionists who are critical of Israeli practices. Correspondingly, authentic anti-Semitism on the part of those whose services to Israeli power are deemed appropriate is of no account.

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/1998/396/eg2.htm

According to Abdel-Moneim Said, founder of the Cairo Peace Society, the report was unfair "because it focused on anti-Jewish anti-Semitism and did not mention anti-Arab anti-semitism which is abundant in Israeli literature and school texts."

Said quoted Netanyahu's book A Place Under the Sun which he said described Arabs as dirty, aggressors and bloodthirsty.

http://www.geocities.com/aamirror/anguish.htm

When Jewish liberals move to censure flagrant anti-Arab conduct such as the offensive cartoon of Prophet Mohammed by an Israeli settler, one must draw a clear distinction between the intolerance of an extremist Jewish settler and the frustrations of a Palestinian, Lebanese, or Syrian refugee denied basic human rights and deprived of liberty and the pursuit of a decent life. One should not feel compelled to engage in a quid pro quo simply to placate Jewish liberals in the absence of a level playing field. The difference in circumstances between an Israeli and a Palestinian are very much different. The former has all and the latter lost all.

When expressing hate from a position of power and total control, it is a sign of bellicosity and intolerance deserving of condemnation. When expressing hate in response to the distress brought upon by the loss of life, liberty, and property it merits sympathy not scorn. To equate both is to ignore the distinction between culprit and victim. To deny the victim the right to anger and indignation is to worsen the tragedy. To equate hate statements by a Jew living under the safety of Israel’s nuclear umbrella to that of a beleaguered refugee whose only shot at life has been reduced to a daily exercise of poverty and deprivation, this comparison simply does not hold.

With the Israeli right using its coercive and lethal powers to silence political opposition and with the Israeli left waving the Peace Baton and the threat of withholding brotherly love, most voices of reason in the Arab World have been neutralized leaving the refugees alone to fend for themselves and for extremists to take up their cause. And never forget that both Israeli right and left are in agreement on their denial of Palestinian victimhood. No official apology was ever contemplated and no one is in sight. The price Israelis demand of the Palestinians in return for a promised peace is to accept the role of the defeated villain so Israel can continue to play that of the underdog turned generous victor. To put an end to the conflict, many Palestinians have accepted this bitter barter. Now Palestinians find themselves deprived of both peace and the right to freedom of expression.

Even the Palestinians' attempt to erect a memorial for the fallen in Gaza was denounced and blocked by Israel's Labor, the party of the New Middle East. The Israelis remind us they shall forgive but never forget. But they turn around and demand the Palestinians forget to be forgiven. This is not the spirit of peace.

by Al Jihad - Palestine Free Press Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:05

JENIN, West Bank- A militant group affiliated with Palestinian President Yasser Arafat's Fatah faction claimed responsibility for killing an armed Zionist Settler near the West Bank town of Jenin on Thursday.

A member of the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades said its gunmen carried out the ambush, in the ensuing firefight the colonist was killed. The al-Aqsa commando unit suffered no casualties.

by Jamey Thu Sep 04, 2003 18:04

Is there a problem with calling them colonists ? To be honest I think the fact that Israel apologists resort to accusations of anti-semitism shows the weakness of their case.