Oblivion?

by Black Catholix Sat Sep 18, 2004 19:52

The Church is dead long live the church!

We Irish have for quite some time thrown out the spiritual baby with the religious bath water and embraced coinsumerism with a passion for a source of identity.

We have a special relationship with our new colonisers - faking orgasm while being raped!

Jesus was radical Jew, radical christians expect no better treatment from their Church bureaucrats than he got from his. Liberals in Niccodemus style will move at night and provide the tombs.

The grassoots church in Ireland will emerge smaller and stronger from shaking off the inherited faith that has found a long accomadation to the state in Ireland and the colonisers it represents. This system is now in crisis - financial and recruiment.

Bring it on..... "This system we collapse under it's own weight, all we have to do is give it a few kicks and stay high" Abbie Hoffman

Be the church, realise the kingdom!

by Archbishop Michael Desmond Hynes - Order of Marian Apostles Sun Sep 19, 2004 00:09 archbishophynes at eircom dot net 0863380894

In relation to Gerard Clifford's article in the Dundalk Democrat it reveals that the commercial church as a business is having manpower problems as not enough guys are responding to a call from the Holy Spirit. Maybe The Holy Spirit feels that there will be a much lesser need for clergy as the world has shrunk due to modern technologies such as the automobile etc sighting that many churches could now be closed as it has become easier for people to get to church in the car rather than the days of the horse and cart.

In rural areas we see a decline in weekday Mass attendance and this makes me feel that we have too many churches as many are under used by the Faithful. Supply may be equalling demand here as long gone are the days when the clergy had to travel on their bicycles or carts which was rather time consuming. The farming area has lost many of its man power too as machinery has taken over. Gone are the days when people had to work hard on the land as Gerard's dad Tom who had a nice little red tractor to farm his small farm which was next to my late fathers small farm in Bellurgan.

At present the secular clergy should prove a very good career for young men as with fewer priest they have the boot at their foot so to speak as all work falls on them and that means more cash for them say for example only 1 priest in a parish means the priest gets all the weddings etc.

I forsee church attendance falling to 10% similar to France as we become a more secularised society as well as a post christian society which is a knock on affect that world wide goes with developing economies worldwide for example.

Yes let us pray now that the Holy Spirit delivers a more devout clergy based on quality rather than quantity as we approach the last days.

by Disbeliever Sun Sep 19, 2004 00:55

I see no advantage for humanity in the continuation of the catholic church (and its splinter groups, such as the tridentine cult as represented by "bishop Hynes" above).
None of them have anything positive to offer humanity. These backward and reactionary institutions were at their height during the "dark ages", and are part of the problem, not part of the solution. They are the source of much human misery.
The sooner the catholic church, and indeed all religions, vanish off the face of the Earth the better.

by the Holy Spirit. Sun Sep 19, 2004 02:33

If half the Irish RC parishes wanted they could have a missionary priest from the Third World.
Why don't half the Irish RC parishes want a missionary priest from the Third World?

Perhaps because the same PDs who collect money on the gate are doing their best to discourage any sort of multicultural society which a multiethnic ministry reflects.

I don't normally pass comment myself, for obvious reasons, so in this case I have used Iosaf as my instrument. +++

by Tom Sun Sep 19, 2004 13:54 olearys at oceanfree dot net

Archbishop Hynes

"At present the secular clergy should prove a very good career for young men as with fewer priest they have the boot at their foot so to speak as all work falls on them and that means more cash for them say for example only 1 priest in a parish means the priest gets all the weddings etc."

This is one major reason why church attendance is falling worldwide. I for one do not want to be guided spiritually by some man who took the job because of its attractive remuneration package. There are very few effective and sincere spiritual guides in the church(es) today and, as a result, people are seeking other, more personally meaningful, vehicles to respond to their spiritual needs.

I'd rather see a much smaller church led by honest people with a true spiritual quest for truth rather than a large organisation led by clever men doing whatever necessary to balance the books (to include creative marketing for job opportunities in the organisation!). Substance over market-leadership! If you have a good product, people will come to your door to get it.

Then again, perhaps I am in the minority here? Perhaps most Christians prefer a religion that requires less devoutness so that they can continue on with their consumerist, materialistic and worldly rather than godly pursuits? Perhaps the church IS responding effectively to the needs and desires of their followers?

It could be said that this entire agenda is steered politically, as it is argued that there are more practising muslims in the world today than Christians....there are certainly more practicing Muslims than practicing Catholics, or other Christian denominations when removed from under the "Christianity" umbrella.

* Contemporary figures for Islam are usually between 900 million and 1.3 billion, with 1 billion being a figure frequently given in comparative religion texts, probably because it's such a nice, round number. The largest and best known branches of Islam are Sunni and Shi'ite.

Many Muslims (and some non-Muslim) observers claim that there are more practicing Muslims than practicing Christians in the world. It seems likely, but we would point out that there are different opinions on the matter, and a Muslim may define "practicing" differently than a Christian. In any case, the primary criterion for the rankings on this page is self-identification, which has nothing to do with practice.

See: http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

by Pretty sure Mon Sep 20, 2004 00:20

Pretty sure there are more practising Muslims in England than Anglicans at present!

by Archbishop Hynes - OMA Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:24 archbishophynes at eircom dot net Greenore Co Louth 00353429373525

You have a free choice in this world. Believe in nothing if you wish! But are you better to give the benefit of the doubt and be better sure than sorry. Eternity is a long time. Maybe you are some super human who knows more than us all? Well! It is your choice not mine. It is you who will be at the loss. As they say "if you are not in you can't win"!

by TT Tue Sep 21, 2004 16:40

"But are you better to give the benefit of the doubt and be better sure than sorry"
Ahh, so there are grounds for doubt, and we should err on the side of caution "just in case" all that hellfire stuff might be true?
You don't sound overly confident in your "beliefs". But then you probably realise at this stage that you don't really know any more than anyone else about the universe, eternity and all that stuff.
I would imagine that if there is some kind of "god" or more developed and highly intelligent being than us out there it would probably regard you as a heretic for claiming to know the "will of god", and for being so arrogant as to try to dictate to it as to what happens to people after death.

by Tom Tue Sep 21, 2004 16:51 olearys at oceanfree dot net

I suppose that's what is so frustrating to me....I do believe, but have found that my beliefs are not supported in any practical way by any organised religions developed by man. My God does not want me to wage wars (or crusades) as the leaders in organised religions have done historically. My God does not want me to abuse children and women as the leaders in organised religions have done historically. My God is loving and caring and will not send those who are not Catholic or Lutheran or Jewish or Muslim or Protestant to damnation.

...and I am happy to get my spiritual fulfillment directly from Him, without paying a Church to help me. He understands me like no man can. He alone is the truth and the light. There is no man, priest, reverend, bishop or pope that God loves more than me, that is closer to God than me. God is in everyone and everything.

I am at peace...and I pray that you may be at peace as well my brother Hynes.

peace out....

by Archbishop Hynes - Order of Marian Apostles Tue Sep 21, 2004 17:51 archbishophynes at eircom dot net Greenore Louth 0035342

I have no doubts about the next world. You have and I am sympathetic to you in your frame of mind. The truth can hurt! My role from Scripture is to try and help humanity to find Salvation. You can take a horse to water but you cannot make him drink!

Have you any knowledge of scripture from both protestant and catholic ideoligies or perspectives? It would be a good idea for you to get involved as you are a nice person seeking the truth and like a wee puppy you like ripping things apart. Lol! Wuff wuff wuff!

Remember there is no skin of my teeth. It is your soul. Think about it before it is too late as you never know the hour or the minute you will be called form this life. Amen.

by Archbishop Hynes - Order of Marian Apostles Tue Sep 21, 2004 18:02 archbishophynes at eircom dot net Greenore Louth 0035342 9373525

I hope you are so pefect yes God loves all humanity but hates sin! What is so special about you???? I would have thought like you many years ago. Gosh I will pray for you. You make it all seem so simple. Lol. My oh my!

by Tom Tue Sep 21, 2004 18:22 olearys at oceanfree dot net

I never thought that I'd hear an archbishop say "what's so special about you?"...

we are all special in the eyes of God! God is in everyone, even in Osama Bin Laden, for he was created by God like you and I and born to this earth by God's wonderful creation. As man (and woman), we are ALL imperfect and ALL sinners too. But God will forgive both of us Archbishop, if we ask Him to. I will pray for you too.

God be with all of us....

peace out...

by Tom - olearys@oceanfree.net Tue Sep 21, 2004 18:35

...it really is simple. Life is simple, if you don't get bogged down in the worldy complications that we have created.

Perhaps you should reacquaint yourself with the Little Flower, St. Therese.

You don't need a degree in theology to be in God's grace or to understand God's infinite love. You don't have to be a Catholic either, or a Protestant, or a Baptist or a Lutheran....

God is for everyone and everything....He is all things.

....I wish I could be as loyal and unconditionally loving to my Master as a puppy dog by the way. How wonderful would that be?

Peace be with you...

by Archbishop Hynes - Order of Marian Apostles Wed Sep 22, 2004 01:13 archbishophynes at eircom dot net Greenore Co Louth 042 9373525

God is for everyone and everything....He is all things.

....I wish I could be as loyal and unconditionally loving to my Master as a puppy dog by the way. How wonderful would that be?

Well Tom we will keep trying and with the Grace of God we will succeed. God's Love remain with you Tom.

by Mary J Wed Sep 22, 2004 02:09

I notice you'se keep referring to God as "he". What makes you'se so sure that "God" is a male? How will you'se react on the day of judgement when you discover god is a female, and that "She" takes a dim view of the way that males have behaved throughout history?
Your "Sacred Scriptures" will not be worth much then.

by Elaine Wed Sep 22, 2004 02:31

Being a believer, in the Christian tradition, I have no problem referring to God as a 'He'. However you can just as easily say 'She' if you so please. It's only semantics etc. God looks on the heart and all that. But I do wonder... if you happen to be an omnipresent, all-powerful God who created the world out of nothing and also happen to be the only one of your kind, what need have you of genitals? Surely they are only an earthly consideration? Like the old adage, God created man in his own image and man has been returning the compliment ever since.

by moonwolf Wed Sep 22, 2004 03:31

Perhaps it is worth considering that "GOD"is both male and female. The christian tradition has a male figure,christ jesus and a female Mary. This provides the "believer" with a choice of gender. This complimentary system of dual images is found throughout world religious systems going right back to Isis and Osiris.

Does it really matter whether "GOD" is male or female or both or indeed neither?Is it not more relevant whether one is living ones life along spiritual lines?Are not the basic tenets of most religions the same? Love thy neighbour, though it harms none do what thy will,etc.

blessed be!

by Voice of Reason Wed Sep 22, 2004 15:00

Religion will never go away because most people seem to need it in their lives. Possibly its just part of our human nature to look to religion for the unanswered questions. Its certainly does seem irrational.

I think the Catholic Church (all-powerful no more) can easily find a niche market for its services in Ireland, just like in other Western democracies.

by Archbishop Hynes - Order of Marian Apostles Wed Sep 22, 2004 22:35 archbishophynes at eircom dot net 0871389426

Hello all. We have sure got a good discussion going thanks to Bellurgan man Gerard Clifford Armagh Auxiliary bishop who wrote an article in Dundalk Democrat and Sean Crudden an Ardee man who adopted Jenkinstown as his maternal home who quoted from the Bellurgan mans article where he (the Most Rev son of the late Thomas Clifford) was rinting on about ageing clergy and available clergy for future policing parishes in Armagh basically.

It is fair to argue that we in Ireland are undergoing vast socieconomic change! The family has changed as now it is more safer to use the term partner etc now than husband or wife especially when selling goods or canvassing etc. The day of the old thatched cottage has long and gone as motorways take route accross the countryside coupled with speeeding motorists rushing and racing as the daily urban and rural system keeps momentum.

As well: the day of respect for law and order has also come to question as is witnessed often when we hear or see the news via the media. Has it by the way? Or is there more respect in that area now? OK! Our social system via welfare has improved vastly since the poor old days of the 1950's etc. Many may feel we all have got more rope in our own hands as liberal laws take route within our society. Oh! Maybe we have revolved in a complete circle and we have become deliberalised, controlled, trapped in a system of far too many do's ad dont's etc? Many see the modern system as progress while many may disagree!

The main stay of the Church was the family. The family has become under much pressure these days but has the family not always been under pressure in the past? Think about it? It was very tough rearing a family in years gone bye too I understand!

For many Church may have differing meanings for differing religions. However due to the fact the the family structure is changing it makes sense that the church will be changing too. During the famine the state let people in Ireland starve to death yet there was plenty of potatoes being exported. The problem was the Irish had no cash to buy the spuds so the either emigrated or starved to death if they could get food themselves in Ireland etc. So in that light we should be thankful that our government agencies looks after our populous much better now than in bygone days. Or do they?

I feel that we shall in time see a great transformation within the Church worlwide and allow a new phoenix to arise from the ashes. Give it time. Be optimistic. Go on spoil youselves- and give it a chance.

Love to hear your replies. + Michael OMA

by Pope Patrick Thu Sep 23, 2004 02:31

"It was very tough rearing a family in years gone bye too I understand!"
Yes it was tough. And it was not helped one bit by the arrogant and dogmatic fundamentalists who lorded it over us. At least now people have copped on to them and dont kowtow to them any more.
I would hate to have to sit through a sermon from you. You do tend to waffle on and on without saying anything new. Its just as well that you are not a real bishop, just a self-appointed one. If you can call yourself a bishop then I can call myself a cardinal. Or maybe I should go the whole hog and call myself the pope.

by Archbishop Hynes - Order of Marian Apostles Thu Sep 23, 2004 04:39

Bishop?
by Pope Patrick Thursday, Sep 23 2004, 1:31am


"It was very tough rearing a family in years gone bye too I understand!"
Yes it was tough. And it was not helped one bit by the arrogant and dogmatic fundamentalists who lorded it over us. At least now people have copped on to them and dont kowtow to them any more.
I would hate to have to sit through a sermon from you. You do tend to waffle on and on without saying anything new. Its just as well that you are not a real bishop, just a self-appointed one. If you can call yourself a bishop then I can call myself a cardinal. Or maybe I should go the whole hog and call myself the pope.

What fundalmentalists are you talking about? How did they Lord over us? Who is us? You should explain who you are speaking for? That is if you wish to be understood! Who have copped on to what? Catholic Churches are full in our part of the world. What is the meaning of [kowtow]? I think you have had a big large feed of something obnoxious as you appear to be full of dung by the way you are talking. You may be having hallucinations or maybe it is due to a loss of sleep! A good dose of Epsom salts might clear you out. You appear to be taking it out on me as it would appear that you have had a tough time rearing a family you at least understand that chore in bygone days.
Furthermore, I do not call myself a Bishop but was called to be a bishop elected and consecrated. So if you want to call yourself a pope I would have great sympathy for you. Maybe you need help. I shall pray for you and wish you get well soon.

by Good grief Thu Sep 23, 2004 13:50

I am disappointed and saddened to see the abusive way that Bishop Hynes has responded to the previous poster:
"I think you have had a big large feed of something obnoxious as you appear to be full of dung by the way you are talking."

Being abusive is not really what we should expect from a man of the cloth.

by Archbishop Hynes Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:18

RESPECT FOR THE CLERGY

The Orthodox Christian respects and loves the clergy. Knowing that the
clergy are servants of God and man, devoting their life for the
salvation of their flock, the Orthodox Christian expresses his
gratitude and respect to them on every occasion.

First, the Priest is addressed as "Father" by all, for he is the
spiritual father of his flock: he is their teacher, confessor,
sanctifier, and healer.

There are people that belong to Christian denominations that do not
call their clergy, "Father". But let us consider the words of St.
Paul, "For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you
would not have many father; for in Christ Jesus I became your father
through the gospel" (I Corinthians 4:15). When we also read the gospel
according to St. Luke, we find the rich man calling up to Abraham in
heaven with Lazarus in his bosom and addressing him as "Father
Abraham" (See Luke 16:20-31). Abraham's response was not, "Do you not
realize that only God the Father is to be called Father?" Rather, he
replied, '.Son, remember".

Second, when people greet their Priest they kiss his hand as an
expression of respect, as recognition of his Priesthood, and as a
veneration to the holiness of his sacred office and duties.

The fact that the Priest handles the Holy of Holies, that is, the Body
and Blood of Christ, when he offers the Divine Liturgy, is recognized
by Orthodox people, at all time throughout the world, as a great and
awesome privilege.

The hands that touch and offer the Bloodless Sacrifice on the Holy
Altar; the hands that give to us the Body and Blood of Christ; the
hands that baptize and anoint us with Holy Chrism; the hands that
absolve us in the Sacrament of Penance; the hands that bless our
wedlock in the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony and anoint our bodies with
the healing oil of the Sacrament of Holy Unction; the hands that
sprinkle upon us the Holy Water of Sanctification; the hands that
bless us, alive and dead, these hands are the instruments of
salvation. For this reason Orthodox Christians through the centuries
have kissed the hand of our Priest when we greet him either in church
when he distributes the "Antidoron" at the end of the Divine Liturgy
or outside the church whenever we meet him.

We close these remarks with the words of St. Paul: "Remember your
leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God; consider the outcome
of their life and imitate their faith; Jesus Christ is the same
yesterday and today and forever. Do not be led away by diverse and
strange teachings. Obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are
keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account.
Let them do this joyfully, and not sadly, for that would be of no
advantage to you" (Hebrews 13:7-9, 13, 17).

Parents are the primary religious educators for our children. Teach
them well.

by Archbishop Hynes Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:22

Addressing Clergy

Note that priests and their superiors and religious should be treated with the utmost respect. The rules of etiquette that apply when dealing with people of different social standing apply here as well, for example: during introductions, laymen are introduced to priests or their superiors and religious (e.g., "Father, I present Mrs. Doe. Mrs. Doe, this is Father Smith."); clergy and religious should be seated at the right hand of a host (or hostess, as the case may be); at social gatherings, they should be seated in the place of honor, etc.

A note on kneeling:
Kneel on the left knee for persons (Kings, Bishops, Archbishops, Patriarchs, Cardinals, Popes, etc.);
Kneel on the right knee for Christ in the tabernacle;
Kneel on both knees when the Eucharist is exposed.






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Latin Catholic
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Pope

Face-to-face Greeting
Holy Father
Your Holiness
Most Holy Father
Envelope Address
His Holiness, Pope John Paul II (abbreviated: H.H. John Paul II)
Letter Salutation
Your Holiness
Most Holy Father
Abbreviations
His Holiness: H.H.
Other
Kneel on your left knee and kiss ring as sign of respect for his office. If kneeling would be awkward or impossible, bow at the waist and proceed. Stand when he enters the room and remain standing until he invites you to sit. Men must remove their hats in his presence. Repeat reverential gestures when leaving his presence.


Cardinal

Face-to-face Greeting
Your Eminence
Your Grace (British)
Envelope Address
His Eminence, John Cardinal Doe, Archbishop of Erewhon
("Cardinal" goes between first and last names)
Letter Salutation
Your Holiness
Most Eminent Cardinal
Abbreviations
His Eminence: H.E.;
Eminence: Emus. (Eminentissimus)
Other
Kneel on your left knee and kiss ring as sign of respect for his office. If kneeling would be awkward or impossible, bow at the waist and proceed (do not do either if the Pope is present). Stand when he enters the room and remain standing until he invites you to sit. Men must remove their hats in his presence. Repeat reverential gestures when leaving his presence.


Patriarch

Face-to-face Greeting
Your Beatitude
Envelope Address
His Beatitude
Letter Salutation
Your Beatitude
Other
Stand when he enters the room and remain standing until he invites you to sit. Men must remove their hats in his presence. When it is your own Patriarch, kneel on your left knee and kiss ring as sign of respect for his office. If kneeling would be awkward or impossible, or if he is not your own Patriarch, bow at the waist and kiss his ring (do not do either if the Pope is present). Repeat reverential gestures when leaving his presence.


Archbishop/Primate

Face-to-face Greeting
Your Excellency
Your Grace (British)
Envelope Address
The Most Reverend John Doe, Archbishop of Erewhon
Letter Salutation
Your Excellency
Abbreviations
Archieps. (Archiepiscopus), or Arch.
Other
Stand when he enters the room and remain standing until he invites you to sit. Men must remove their hats in his presence. When it is your own Archbishop, kneel on your left knee and kiss ring as sign of respect for his office. If kneeling would be awkward or impossible, or if he is not your own Archbishop, bow at the waist and kiss his ring (do not do either if the Pope is present). Repeat reverential gestures when leaving his presence.


Bishop

Face-to-face Greeting
Your Excellency
My Lord Bishop (British)
Envelope Address
The Most Reverend John Doe, Bishop of Erewhon
The Right Reverend John Doe, Bishop of Erewhon (British)
Letter Salutation
Your Excellency
Abbreviations
Ep., Epus. (Episcopus)
Other
Stand when he enters the room and remain standing until he invites you to sit. Men must remove their hats in his presence. When it is your own Bishop, kneel on your left knee and kiss ring as sign of respect for his office. If kneeling would be awkward or impossible, or if he is not your own Bishop, bow at the waist and kiss his ring (do not do either if the Pope is present). Repeat reverential gestures when leaving his presence.


Monsignor

Face-to-face Greeting
Monsignor
Envelope Address
The Very Right Reverend Monsignor Doe
The Reverend Monsignor John Doe
Letter Salutation
Dear Monsignor
Abbreviations
Right Reverend Father: RR. (for Reverendissimus)
Other
Stand when he enters the room and remain standing until he invites you to sit. Men must remove their hats in his presence. Repeat reverential gestures when leaving his presence.


Priest

Face-to-face Greeting
"Father," "Reverend Father," or "Your Reverence." Though it is common, it's not proper to address a priest using his first name, as in "Hi, Father John!"
Envelope Address
The Reverend Father John Doe
Letter Salutation
Dear Father
Reverend and Dear Father Doe
Abbreviations
Father: F. or Fr.
Fathers, Plural: FF.
Reverend Father: Rev. Fr. (or "R.P." for Reverendus Pater)
Other
Stand when he enters the room and remain standing until he invites you to sit. Men must remove their hats in his presence. If a priest visits your home, it is customary to ask for his blessing; the simple words, "Father, bless" are fine. When blessed by a priest, kneel on both knees until he is finished. It is also customary for many people, especially those in Latin cultures, to kiss the priest's hand to honor the Eucharist, as they alone are able to consecrate (unless the Pope is present).


Deacon

Face-to-face Greeting
Deacon
Envelope Address
Reverend Mr Deacon
Letter Salutation
Dear Mr. Deacon


Abbot

Face-to-face Greeting
Father Abbot
Envelope Address
Right Reverend John Doe, (Initials of Order)
Ex. Right Reverend Doe, O.S.D.
Abbreviations
Abbot: Ab.
Letter Salutation
Dear Right Reverend Father
Dear Abbot


Brother

Face-to-face Greeting
Brother
Envelope Address
Brother John Doe, (Initials of Order)
Ex. Brother Doe, O.S.D.
Abbreviations
Br. or Bro.
Letter Salutation
Dear Brother


Mother Superior

Face-to-face Greeting
Reverend Mother
Envelope Address
The Reverend Mother Jane Doe, (Initials of Order)
Ex. The Reverend Mother Jane Doe, O.S.D.
Abbreviations
Rev. Mother
Letter Salutation
Dear Reverend Mother


Sister

Face-to-face Greeting
Sister
Envelope Address
Sister Jane Doe, (Initials of Order)
Ex. Sister Jane Doe, O.S.D.
Abbreviations
Sr. (for Soror)
Letter Salutation
Dear Sister
Dear Sister Jane Doe





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eastern Catholic
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Patriarch

Face-to-face Greeting
Your Beatitude
Envelope Address
His Beatitude
Letter Salutation
Your Beatitude


Metropolitan

Face-to-face Greeting
Your Beatitude
Envelope Address
His Beatitude the Most Blessed John, Archbishop of Erewhon and Metropolitan X Church in ErewhonII
Letter Salutation
Dear Metropolitan Doe


Archbishop

Face-to-face Greeting
Your Eminence
Envelope Address
His Eminence the Most Reverend John, Archbishop of Erewhon
Letter Salutation
Dear Archbishop John
(it is customary to begin letters and phone conversations with "Bless, Your Eminence". It is customary to end letters with "Kissing your right hand" and to end phone conversations with "Bless, Your Eminence.")


Bishop

Face-to-face Greeting
Your Grace
Envelope Address
The Right Reverend Bishop John
Letter Salutation
Your Grace
(it is customary to begin letters and phone conversations with "Bless, Your Grace". It is customary to end letters with "Kissing your right hand" and to end phone conversations with "Bless, Your Grace.")
Other
When greeting a Bishop, make a bow by reaching down and touching the floor with your right hand, place your right hand over your left hand, with palms facing upward, and say “Bless, Your Grace.” The Bishop will bless you and and place his right hand in your hands. Kiss his hand.


Archpriest

Face-to-face Greeting
Father
Envelope Address
The Very Reverend John Doe
Letter Salutation
Dear Father
(it is customary to begin letters and phone conversations with "Bless, Father". It is customary to end letters with "Kissing your right hand" and to end phone conversations with "Father, bless.")
Other
When greeting an archpriest, make a bow by reaching down and touching the floor with your right hand, place your right hand over your left hand, with palms facing upward, and say “Bless, Father.” The Priest will bless you and and place his right hand in your hands. Kiss his hand.


Priest

Face-to-face Greeting
Father (First Name)
Ex. Father John
Envelope Address
Married Priests: The Reverend Father John
Monk Priests: The Reverend Hieromonk
Letter Salutation
Dear Father John
(it is customary to begin letters and phone conversations with "Bless, Father". It is customary to end letters with "Kissing your right hand" and to end phone conversations with "Father, bless.")
Priests' wives
Greek: Presbytera Jane
Russian: Matushka Jane
Serbian: Papadiya Jane
Ukrainian: Panimatushka Jane
Other
When greeting a priest, make a bow by reaching down and touching the floor with your right hand, place your right hand over your left hand, with palms facing upward, and say “Bless, Father.” The Priest will bless you and and place his right hand in your hands. Kiss his hand.


Deacon

Face-to-face Greeting
Father
Father Deacon
Envelope Address
Married Deacons: The Reverend Deacon
Monk Deacons: The Reverend Hierodeacon
Letter Salutation
Dear Father Deacon
Deacons' Wives
Greek: Diakonissa Jane
Russian: Matushka Jane
Serbian: Papadiya Jane
Ukrainian: Panimatushka Jane


Monastics

Female
Sister Jane
Formally: Nun Jane
Abbess: The Very Reverend Abbess
Male
Father John
Formally: Monk John
Abbot: The Very Reverend Abbot
(Do not refer to them as "Brother" per the Latin tradition unless you are also a Monastic. Do not use family names when addressing monastics)

Back to Being Catholic

by Tom Fri Sep 24, 2004 12:06 olearys at oceanfree dot net

Archbishop Hynes pens "Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings. Obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account. Let them do this joyfully, and not sadly, for that would be of no advantage to you" (Hebrews 13:7-9, 13, 17)."

Throughout history, interpretation of Christian scripture has diversified. As a result, the Roman Catholic church has splintered and new organisations have formed whose leaders adapt "the way" for new followers.

As a minister of the Thucite clergy in the Province of Ulster and Cooley Peninsula, you yourself have disagreed with previous church leadership views:

"...we refute canon law as unnecessarily bureaucratic, and in the following early Church tradition we support married clergy... Our links with Rome have been 'conveniently' overlooked, but nevertheless we remain faithful to Almighty God, to his Blessed Mother and to Holy Mother Church."

In regards to the use of titles, it is as common in the military and any other organisation that requires structure of responsibilities and authority. Slaves in the states called their "owners" master as well, not so much as a sign of respect, but of obedience. While the use of a title doesn't bother me so much....I have been called "Mister" for years...I do object to anyone with a title feeling that because of it they deserve respect from others without it. Respect must be earned. Blind obedience to any man is tantamount to ignorance.

Leadership should constantly be questioned and we are in a much better place now where transparency is required in any organisation, whether it be corporate or religious.

...peace out

by Archbishop Hynes Fri Sep 24, 2004 20:04

Well Tom I enjoyed your last comment and see much of the same viewpoint as you do. Now I like to take this a little further Thomas.

You Quote as follows "In regards to the use of titles, it is as common in the military and any other organisation that requires structure of responsibilities and authority. Slaves in the states called their "owners" master as well, not so much as a sign of respect, but of obedience. While the use of a title doesn't bother me so much....I have been called "Mister" for years...I do object to anyone with a title feeling that because of it they deserve respect from others without it. Respect must be earned. Blind obedience to any man is tantamount to ignorance".

Words like music can mean many things to many people as a result we many numerous opinions of what is righ and wrong in the civil world of ours. I feel that you will agree that we have become saturated in the past with Victorian values and ethos's etc. Before the Reformation the British establishment had great influence in the Roman Sector of the Church. Our name is a title if we think about it. Today we are seen as numbers from paying a bill to buying a new Rolls Royce. (not me though). We are fastly becoming a classless society thanks for that. However there is a problem now in the social structure as too many often resent all forms of authority and respect. Many may have a grouse to pick with the establisment of which we are apart of for the way they or their friends have been treated. So now it does not matter what they call you if for example you re in the Gresham for a meal once you have got the cash to pay for the said. Our society respect [lolly] what some call cash. In a sense money is the Supreme Power for many in society to day. I agree that there is a a fall off in church attendances in certain areas etc. Titles respect and earning respect is equated to how much cash you have so to speak in your a..e pocket.

Many people are cracking up and landing in mental homes with the pressures of life the mortagage, keeping the job coupled with keeping up with the Jones's next door etc. The results is many people feel lost and trapped in a form of ignorance. They may after time see or realise we live for approx' 3 score and 10 and with many of our frieneds being called from this life at ages far younger.

I feel we have a form of revolution brewing in a psychological sense. The disaster in society is near at sinkage level where titles do not matter like say for example if you were on the Titanic going down been thrown into the sea you would not give a hoot what rank you held in the social world when struggling for the lifeboat. I feel with the pressures of sociey now many feel like the Titanic victims at the time they were sinking and seeking to be saved.

So we are now at a stage in history where all is being called into question. So let us live in hope for all and the good people who come after us that something good comes out of what Sean Crudden was suggesting when he asked "Will the Church transform itself or will it decay and allow a phoenix to arise from the ashes"?

Hopeful

by True believer Sat Sep 25, 2004 01:20

You have waited long enough. it now looks like your long and patient wait for the Messiah is over. Click on the link and all will be revealed:

by miao. Sat Sep 25, 2004 13:36

nothing sillier than an american messiah.
i'd say it comes on slowly, it's not like just wake up one morning proclaiming your divinity and _will to chastise_ your fellow humanity, it takes time.

by Anti-rabies Sat Sep 25, 2004 16:34

I still have not figured out if the comments above apparently posted by Bishop Hynes were in fact posted by him or whether someone else is copying stuff from his site and posting it here. Either way I think the protocols outlined for addressing clerics, kings, etc. are an interesting example of the medieaval mindset.
Yes, miao, the whole idea of a messiah, whether American or otherwise, is not only silly, it is absolutely deranged.

"The reason there are so many religious nutters out there - is because religion itself is intrinsically nutty."

http://ffrf.org/index.php
http://www.infidels.org/index.shtml