Veteran republican suspended from Sinn Féin

by BBC Report Tue Nov 22, 2005 19:53

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4460636.stm

by . Tue Nov 22, 2005 20:54

for him

by pat c Tue Nov 22, 2005 21:48

Have SF adopted democratic centralism? I remember when Justin was able to criticise the SF decision not to support the Snannon GrassRoots Demo.

This action will damage SF.

by jim bean Wed Nov 23, 2005 01:07

I'd presume the reduction in councils is part of the deal they've brokered with the British government. Thus, fully understable on their part?

The council plan has been on the agenda for a while now, and it's helped by direct rule. That's not to say any of the northern politicians would have prevented it if the Assembly was in place, as they've made no real move to defend them so far. The reduction plan is actually helped by the general sectarian nature and general uselessness of the councils. And, for the powers they do have, they are exercised by functionaries. So, perhaps, reducing the council's may in fact increase democracy, by reducing the number of functionaries and combating their other problems, but I doubt it. Further, I seriously doubt that would be Sinn Fein's or NIOs motives!

In regard, to the shock at SF's actions, SF have always been a disciplined organisation. As are most serious political parties.

by Gonzo Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:24

I would suspect that they were only waiting for their chance to get rid of Francie Molloy, he has been a thorn in "the leaderships" side for a long time now.He was never one to agree with the revisionist republicanism of Adams and co.

No room for dissent in S.F. As for it being a "disciplined" political party, what a load of cobblers!!!!

by Wacker Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:48

It is a disciplined party. Ask the McCartney family or Jeff Commander.

by Con Carroll Wed Nov 23, 2005 14:45

has anyone forgot the night Mitchel Mc Laughlin was on the platform the night before Bush visit to hillsbourgh?
Mitchel was heckled when he was speaking on the platform
certain elements of people within Sinn Fein are talking about coalition of the right if you read o Caolains statement.
the last thing the powers to be within Sinn Fein want is someone who is opposed to their political plans iof cosy cartels. nod nod wink wink.

by Liberal Wed Nov 23, 2005 14:59

Mitchell was heckled by trots & crusties who were imported into the area. Some of those heckling were from the virulently Anti-Republican SP and Organise. Times change, its not so long ago that you were a great Shinner. Telling anyone who would listen about your latest conversation with Gerry.

by Sharon. - Individual. Wed Nov 23, 2005 15:27

" I would suspect that they were only waiting for their chance to get rid of Francie Molloy, he has been a thorn in "the leaderships" side for a long time now.He was never one to agree with the revisionist republicanism of Adams and co." - by Gonzo Wednesday, Nov 23 2005, 9:24am

" Republicans are prepared to work an Executive . We are really prepared to administer British rule in Ireland for the foreseeable future . The very principle of partition is accepted . "

--so said the same Francie Molloy in early 1999 .

Partition = no problem.
'Re-partition' = bad.

Sharon.

by Amused Wed Nov 23, 2005 16:10

The only ones to agree with the Brits on local government are the Provo's.
Q. What's the difference between the provo's and the sticks?
A. 35 years

by Con Carroll Wed Nov 23, 2005 16:24

Liberal I make no apologises of been a ex member of Sinn Fein listening to Mr. Adams speeches
even dialogue with mr. Adams. been on protest marches.
Indeed Liberal I have worked with Sinn Fein members against the racist referendum nice treaty
what is your point Liberal?
if one can't stand the heat then one should not debate.

by . Thu Nov 24, 2005 01:16

sticks didnt surrender arms

by Con Carroll - ClassWar Thu Nov 24, 2005 14:24

no the sticks didn't surrender their arms, they gave them to the UDA/UVF to murder innocent people.
the sticks also armed criminals to rob banks.
Rabbitte, De Rossa cleary forgets about thier links to Russia.
also their phot copy money scam in Dublin 1.

by pat c Thu Nov 24, 2005 16:01

Heres the latest from Francie

SF member critical of suspension

Mr Molloy is a councillor on Dungannon District Council

Sinn Fein members should be allowed to express their own opinion, a suspended party member has said. Francie Molloy was suspended from the party pending a disciplinary hearing after going against party policy on the Review of Public Administration.

Speaking on BBC radio on Tuesday, he spoke against SF policy by opposing the move to reduce the number of district councils to seven.

"There has to be room in all parties for a dissenting voice," he said.


"I think we need discussion. As Gerry Adams said a short time ago at a dinner in Dublin, he doesn't need sheep and he expects people to have different views."


Full story at link.

by Clarification Sat Nov 26, 2005 02:29

From memory the "crusties", catholic workers,anarchs et al held the line with the riot squad while the political parties retreated back to the speaking platform.

The same platform that the crowd initially swept past to get as close to Bush as possible.SWP announcing that the buses were leaving for Dublin to lead the rertreat.

by Boulcolonialboy - Organise! Sun Nov 27, 2005 00:43 organiseireland at yahoo dot co dot uk

When y'have an 'anti-war' Shinner addressing people from an anti-war platform while his party colleagues are inside Hillsborough Castle shaking hands with Bush heckling is well deserved.

Yes members of Organise! - imported from Belfast and Derry among other places in Ireland - were involved in heckling while one of our members was among many arrested in Hillsborough that evening on the other side of the police lines.

Just as a point of information though a shit load more people than are in Organise! or the SP were heckling the suited Shinner.

Don't you see any contradiction at all in Sinn Fein having the audacity to address an anti-war rally while their representatives shake the hands of the warmongers? Or, on topic, for that matter the irony of suspending a party member and councillor for stating his opposition to British policy as imposed by direct rule ministers?

catch yer sel' on.

by pat c Sun Nov 27, 2005 14:56

Beware of clever trolls. That was just an attempt to derail the story. Its about freedom of speech in SF not anything else.

by Duvet Man Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:38

Who's In Charge Around Here, Anyway?

Eamonn McCann • 24 November 2005

I suppose Francie Molloy can count himself lucky that it’s only from Sinn Fein membership that he’s suspended and not from the end of a rope.
Francie was accused at lunchtime on Tuesday of not only thinking things which Sinn Fein chiefs hadn’t approved, but of expressing them within earshot of voters. Within ninety minutes---give or take---Mitchel McLaughlin had conducted a preliminary hearing in his head and decided that Bobby Sands’ director of elections had a prima face case to answer. So he’s been cast beyond the Pale, pending a full hearing.
Mitchel helpfully explained yesterday that it’s his job as general secretary to take these difficult disciplinary decisions. This came as something of a surprise to those of us who’d been reminded by Tuesday night’s “Spotlight” programme that in the wake of the killing of Robert McCartney, Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams had personally suspended seven members of the party without, apparently, feeling a need to consult anyone else.
Are President Adams and General Secretary McLaughlin the only SF officials with this awesome power to remove party members from the organisation at will? Or are there others? Could Sinn Fein, please, publish a list? It is surely not healthy to have party members walking around not knowing whether it’s safe to look sideways at Barry McElduff.
I raise these matters only because no Sinn Fein member whom I managed to consult in the pub last night was clear about the procedures which had been followed in the Francie suspension. None could quote the party rule or policy decision which had conferred these unusual powers on the President and Gen. Sec. (and possibly on a range of others.)
I have to wonder, too, whether my old friend Mitchel isn’t being a mite foolhardy in exercising his disciplinary muscle with such evident alacrity. I’d proceed with a certain circumspection, if I were in his defiantly unfashionable brogues.
It is Sinn Fein policy not to welcome or facilitate new investment in Northern Ireland unless the inward investor meets a number of conditions to do with ethical practice and workers’ right to trade union membership and representation. The policy was enthusiastically endorsed a few years back by Sinn Fein’s supreme decision-making body, the Ard Fheis, the motion having been proposed by a Derry delegation led, if memory serves, by, er, Mitchel McLaughlin.
And yet, long hours fine-tooth-combing through Mitchel’s many subsequent pronouncements on economic policy have failed to yield a single example of this particular party policy being espoused. Indeed, many may have formed an impression from Mitchel that there’s isn’t an unbridgeable gap between Sinn Fein policy on investment and workers’ rights and the policy of the DUP---or even of New Labour.
Is Mitchel not running the risk of finding himself sin-binned with Francie?
I suppose he’s safe enough if it’s only President Adams who’d have the clout to declare him non grata. After all, Generalissimo Gerry isn’t averse to the odd solo run himself when it comes to economic matters.
There’s been a major kerfuffle down South in the past fortnight about the chances of the Shinners going into government with Fianna Fail. Bertie Ahern says he won’t hear of it, on the ground that Sinn Fein economic policy would be fatal for the Celtic Tiger. “Marxist,” the policy was described as, to the delight of those Shinners who are chuffed to be thought of as Marxists.
Right enough, higher income tax, higher capital gains tax, higher corporation tax, a 30 per cent tax on banks, a desire to tax property and opposition to greater European integration---the policy mix would be bad medicine for Fianna Fail’s business friends.
But then I read in the Sunday papers that no less a person than General Adams himself has been giving “private briefings” to Dublin media outlets making it clear that it's the peace process and the “equality agenda” which will be make-or-break for Sinn Fein in relation to coalition---not the party's economic proposals, which will be "negotiable."
Something of a pattern here, is there not?
When it comes to communal questions, issues of Orange versus Green, party members must offer no backchat, take their lead from the top, and stay in tune as they all sing the same song.
But on economic questions, on class issues, policy is there only for the optics. You can say anything you like, especially if it advances the party towards power.
Thus it was just days ago that Peter Hain gave an interview to a New York newspaper explaining that Britain now wanted to solve its Northern Ireland problem by privatising the whole place, and the only aspect of the interview which exercised Sinn Fein (or the DUP) was whether we are to be sold off on our own or as a job lot with the Republic.
Still. At least things are bring clarified, are they not?

by SH Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:52

It is amazing that McCann from the "democratic" SWP should talk about suspensions in Sinn Fein. How many people have been expelled from his own party for extremely dubious reasons. While I certainly support freedom of speech within Sinn Fein I disagree with this issue being used by the likes of Eamonn McCann who refuses to acknowledge the undemocratic nature of the SWP and their disgracefull methods of expelling people and then slandering thier names after it.

by pat c Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:30

You are certainly correct about this. Eamon McCann should remember he lives in a glasshouse/ All I'll say is: Remember Rathmines Eamon?

But SF are wrong also, Francie should be allowed to dissent.

by SH Mon Nov 28, 2005 13:13

I agree with you 100% that their should be freedom of speech within Sinn Fein. I just believe that it is absolutley ridiculous of Eamonn McCann to criticise Sinn Fein for this. How much freedom of speech is there in the SWP? None

by Kop on Mon Nov 28, 2005 15:52

E McCann from the SWP speaking about the right of freedom of speech in political parties!!
The SWP are ten times worst, surely McCann knows that.

by Barry Mon Nov 28, 2005 17:38

Leaving McCann and the SWP hypocrisy aside , another high profile MLA , John Kelly , was turfed out for supporting political status for republican prisoners last year .

Whats astounding about this though is that the diference of opinion seems so trivial . Francie Molloy is not exactly what youd call a "dissident" .

Francie made a highly public gaffe in the Irish Times a few years back when he said " we have accepted the unionist veto . The very principle of partition is accepted . We are prepared to administer British rule for the forseeable future " Although a perfectly honest appraisal of Sinn Feins position it was SERIOUS loose talk . It was only intended for the high ups in Sinn Fein and not the hoi polloi who still reckoned the ceasefire was a huge trick on the Brits , as theyd been regularly told . Sinn Fein even denied he had said it at all and that the interview was faked .

A few years later one of the tactics employed by the shinners concerning decommissioning was to tell their activists it was only a ploy , so as to numb the sting of what was quite plainly the surrender of arms on Britains insistence . " we can always go back to what we do best" Francie announced . You were only supposed to say this in private to the hoi polloi to calm any worries that the statement Francie made in the Irish Times might actually be TRUE !!

Francie made the gaffe of saying this publicly at a commemoration when he knew there were rumblings of discontent among those who attended . Particularly at his very public statement on accepting British rule . Theres no sense in having a dedicated party hack when he keeps getting his left from his right mixed up in front of the media and cant remember which particular brand of bullshit is appropriate for which particular occasion .

Given the task of persuading the DUP who still refuse to accept decommissioning actually happened , poor hapless Francie has become a millstone around Sinn Feins neck . All the DUP has to do is point a finger in his direction and say " you will go back to doing what you do best" . And who can blame them .? He said it after all .

It looks to me like Francies big mouth caused the Sinn Fein leadership one embarassing headache too many . Knowing them they were just waiting on him to make another slip so they could have him and his decommissioning quip airbrushed out of history . Theres more to this than the usual control freakery , in my opinion .



"

by as it has bells on it Mon Nov 28, 2005 17:50

McCann of the SWP talks of political freedom within parties, sheer and utter hypocrisy.
The SWP are the most undemocratic party on this island and every 'leftie' activist outside the SWP knows that. His report will have no credibility becasue of that

by Badman Mon Nov 28, 2005 17:58

Word is that the shinners are lining up Peter Canavan as a candidate in Tyrone. Could it be connected ? Another example of cleaning out the old guard for the New Sinn Fein media-friendly types?

by Townie Mon Nov 28, 2005 18:03

I wonder will Francie be proposing him the way Cllr Nicky and Cllr Christy will be proposing Mary Lou. Ten out of ten for party loyalty.