The Sleeping Giant Stirs - Irish Labour on the March

by Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group - Indymedia Ireland Fri Dec 09, 2005 07:39

Latvian trade unionists have been speaking out in favour of the protests as they've been fighting the attempt by employers to exploit them in the construction industry in Sweden:

by R. Isible Fri Dec 09, 2005 07:45

The English Court of Appeal decided on 3 November to lift the injunction against the Finnish Seamen’s Union (Suomen Merimies-Unioni, SM-U) and the International Transport Workers' Federation (ITF). The injunction had been imposed by the High Court of Justice in London in June 2005, barring the two union organisations from taking any action against the Finnish shipping company Viking Line which had planned to reflag its vessel m/s Rosella to Estonia and to start negotiations on a collective agreement with Estonian unions, thus replacing its existing agreement with SM-U.

by Ciarán Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:11

What's the march route in Dublin? Can't make it to the Garden of Remembrance for 1.30pm but would like to get to the speeches etc. Where will the march end?

by Guesser Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:44

Just guessing now. I'd say it's going from the Garden down O'Connell Street, across the bridge around by TCD, down Nassau Street, up Kildare Stree and around to Government buildings. That's defo where the speeches are.

by eeekkkkkk Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:47

calling all metropolitan indians

"more sacrifice, more work, less pay"

by Capitalist Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:55

I am against this march. Why don't you do it on a sunday so you won't be disrupting ordinary people?? Also, you can't have it both ways, we democratically expanded the EU so you have to expect this sort of enterprise to happen, especially if it means Irish companies can survive and compete in a global market. Your policies will fails and the union movement is a dying beast...

by pat c Fri Dec 09, 2005 13:11

ordinary people will be on the march, its meant to annoy people like you. the EU is not just for the bosses, its also for the ordinary people. far from being a dying beast the the labour movement is a raging wolf which will tear the capitalist fatcats asunder.

by Starstruck - Grassroots Dissent Fri Dec 09, 2005 13:13

I am for this march. Why don't you do it on a monday so you will be disrupting more greedy businesses?? Also, you can't have it both ways, they expanded the EU so you have to expect this sort of exploitation to happen, especially if it means the west can keep profiteering,survive and dominate in a global market. Their policies will fail and the union movement is a powerful beast...

Hurrah!

by Capitalist Fri Dec 09, 2005 13:27

Unfortunately, I am not a boss and i am an ordinary person last time i checked.. Like it or not, the country is rolling in dough and you and all your union heads benefit nicely so you should get a grip pal and stop going on like you and all your 'ordinary people' are living in squats and earning the minimum wage which is one of the best in Europe anyway.
You are trying to spread a fear and panic among your 'ordinary people' that their jobs will be given to eastern european people and then try to mouth that you are doing all this to save them (eastern Europeans) from exploitation. Yeah right. Its your skin and yours alone that you are trying to protect under this false guise. You cannot and will not stop the natural growth of a thriving open economy. It will be done in a fair to all way but the unions will do their best to screw it all up if they are let and they will not succeed.... NEVER

by pat c Fri Dec 09, 2005 13:31

so you are an ordinary person. well its altruistic of you not to mind that the rich pay little or no taxes. the union movement has the interests of the ordinary people at heart. last time i checked there were 750,000 union members on this island, add in relatives kids etc and you will see that we are the economic majority.

immigrant workers should be paid at the same rate as irish workers and have the right to join a union.

europe is for the ordinary people. for a social europe, not a bosses europe.

by being helpful Fri Dec 09, 2005 13:36

if we see what is already here and coming down the line in particular from China and India - cheaper and better made products and services - and no rhetoric and marching about the streets of dublin will stop those changes.

by pat c Fri Dec 09, 2005 13:55

chinese and indian wage rates will apply in ireland now? i think not.

if irish ferries try and sell their ships they will have a hard job getting the irish crews off them. they will also find that they wont be allowed to sail or dock by port workers. lets see your judges issue injunctions. how many thousands are they going to lock up?

by via txt msg 13.18 Fri Dec 09, 2005 14:22

Heavy garda presence, chopper overhead. More arriving steadily.

by via txt msg 13.38 Fri Dec 09, 2005 14:39

Can hear the choppers overhead. Revolt is in the air.

Michael

by via txt msg13.40 Fri Dec 09, 2005 14:40

Something is up . . .

by txt msg 13.47 Fri Dec 09, 2005 14:49

opf the square maybe. 15,000 so far? March is just about to begin. Horseback cops moving now.

by via txt msg 13.49 Fri Dec 09, 2005 14:50

sound of choppers becomes more deafening

michael

by Capitalist Fri Dec 09, 2005 14:52

i am a paye worker and pay my fair share of taxes and i do mind rich people not paying tax but there are obviously reasons for this that are not straightforward. I am sure there are plenty of the ordinary people on your protest blocking up my city that are fond of a few cash transactions!! I hear there are alot of builders on your march. The cheek of yous. They are the best paid workers around with some earning crazy money. It all has a knock on effect to average joe and rip off ireland. No wonder they are marching..
Its the enterprising people in this country that have had to drag it out of the hole it was in and if the likes of unions and certain left political parties were to have their way years ago, this country would still be in a hole. Yous had to be dragged into the celtic tiger and now yous want to try and stop the economy developing and growing naturally..

by txt msg 13.48 Fri Dec 09, 2005 14:52

from the onlooking crowd

michael

by via txt msg 13.54 Fri Dec 09, 2005 14:57

to a bunch of bus eireann workers. Schottish and aberdeen trade union council banners now passing marked "unity is strength'

by via txt msg 14.01 Fri Dec 09, 2005 15:04

Huge crowd with a multitude of big banners. The gardai are only leaving people go in sections the crowd is so big. Could do with a bit more noise though. It is a tame atmosphere. Loudspeakers and chanting is needed. This is where the organisational skills of political parties is so handy

michael

by via txt msg 14.03 Fri Dec 09, 2005 15:05

.

by imcer via phone Fri Dec 09, 2005 15:09

'Polish against exploitation' banner spotted ,

David begg and Pat rabbite joan Burton, john Gormley and other leftie td's leading march. Number is only a rough estimate.

by via txt msg 14.16 Fri Dec 09, 2005 15:20

divided we are sunk. Divided it's plain sailing. The onlooking crowd applauds everytime another section is let forward. It's like the dublin marathon! Also reminds you of the big anti war march the crowd is so big. Very hard to say on numbers but defo in the tens of thousands

michael

by via txt msg 14.36 Fri Dec 09, 2005 15:38

V hard to count though. Lots of families towards the rear. Unions from UK here. Also lots of messages of solidarity with immigrant workers.

by txt msg 14.38 Fri Dec 09, 2005 15:40

and there is still no end in sight looking back up to garden of remembrance. Looks like all the political parties are at the back. So far it's been one union after the other.

michael

by via txt msg 14.41 Fri Dec 09, 2005 15:43

.

by via txt msg 14.43 Fri Dec 09, 2005 15:45

I'm guesstimating 30.000. A left wing activist tried to get workers going with a loudspeaker. They looked blankly at him. If only all these workers could get politicised in some way. Things in Ireland, indeed the world, would change rather rapidly.

michael

by txt msg 14.46 Fri Dec 09, 2005 15:48

Only spotted the band that has been playing all the time as each section of the crowd starts off. Things seem very calm with people in good spirits on what has probably been the mildest day in months.

by via txt msg 14.52 Fri Dec 09, 2005 15:55

Very good atmosphere as you walk down o'connell street with good support from onlookers. The crowd is enormous. The atmosphere is great. Unfortunately for me capitalism calls and it's back to work.

michael

by Darren Fri Dec 09, 2005 15:59

Is is common to have the garda chopper on marches?

by tom jones Fri Dec 09, 2005 16:07

.

by Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group - Indymedia Ireland Fri Dec 09, 2005 16:10

Polish banner

Polish banner

by Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group - Indymedia Ireland Fri Dec 09, 2005 16:21

ICTU

ICTU banner

by via txt msg 15.20 Fri Dec 09, 2005 16:22

we will have fotos up soon

by Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group - Indymedia Ireland Fri Dec 09, 2005 16:33

Dogs Against Exploitation

Dogs Against Exploitation

by Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group - Indymedia Ireland Fri Dec 09, 2005 16:35

Lots of banners

Scotish Unions

Patients Together

Sink That Idea!

More colourful banners

Some offical looking people?

by juan pablo Fri Dec 09, 2005 16:37

About 3/4,000 in Cork,wound its way around city centre from Connolly hall-Parnell place-Merchants quay-Patrick st.-south mall and back outside Connolly hall. speeches ongoing

by edel daly - wap/akat Fri Dec 09, 2005 16:39 autopart at iol dot ie

Can't be on the marches but want to register our support.
David Cowhie, Lynn Cowhie, Edel Daly and all the staff.

by Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group - Indymedia Ireland Fri Dec 09, 2005 16:39

Bertie We're Not Impressed

Bertie We're Not Impressed

by eeekkkkkk Fri Dec 09, 2005 16:48

.

by chekov - wsm (personal capacity) Fri Dec 09, 2005 17:02

The rally at the march has just finished and the workers have retired for refreshments. The anarchists, as is customary, were at the back of the march and the front of the march had reached the Dail by the time we left (about 2.25, 45 minutes after the front of the march had left).

It's difficult to give details of who marched and how many since it was so big, but there was a sea of union banners, more than I've ever seen before in the one place. It was not as big as February 15th 2003, but it wasn't smaller by much - a figure of at least 50,000 seems reasonable.

by Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group - Indymedia Ireland Fri Dec 09, 2005 17:10

Yet more pictures from earlier today

I.N.T.O -Teacher's Union

by Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group - Indymedia Ireland Fri Dec 09, 2005 17:13

1

National Bus and Rail Union

Belfast Unemployed Center

Ryanair

TUI

Kid supporting decency

by Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group - Indymedia Ireland Fri Dec 09, 2005 17:17

Construction and Allied Trades Branch (SIPTU) An Injury To One Is The Concern of All

An Injury To One Is The Concern of All

by Indymedia Ireland Editorial Group - Indymedia Ireland Fri Dec 09, 2005 17:21

Pics 2

INTO

corpo

National Union Rail Maritime and Transport Workers

National Womens Council of Ireland

Irish Bank Officials Association

by capitalist Fri Dec 09, 2005 19:48

folks, as emotional as it all was, watching you march around with your flags and banners, it was really a funeral for unions as they are dying in ireland with have no chance against out economic power. RIP Unions

by Radoslaw Sawicki - Polish Group of Independent Workers Union Fri Dec 09, 2005 20:45 szerszun at o2 dot pl 085 730 85 98

Polscy robotnicy z Polskiej Grupy Independent Workers Union w pelni popieraja dzisiejsze marsze przeciwko polityce Irish Ferries oraz sprzeciwiaja sie tendencji do wykorzystywania robotnikow z Europy Wschodniej.

by Rottweillerfan - n/a Fri Dec 09, 2005 22:03

Aw!!! Cute dog. I love it. They should put in hi-vis vest!!!!!!!!!!!

by Human - Ireland Fri Dec 09, 2005 23:17

By the look of today, the unions and the public support, you are the dying breed, (hopefully). We are always a step behind, I think we are going to leave the whole greed is good thing alone. It's not working.
p.s: you're a twat :)

by observer2 Sat Dec 10, 2005 22:20

....

by AgainstPoliticalCorrectness - none Tue Dec 13, 2005 07:18

The root cause of this problem is the unregulated immigration of cheap labour from Eastern Europe. I voted for the Nice Treaty both times but now it is clear that the warnings at the time from the No side about cheap labour taking Irish jobs were factually correct. Now you can say all you like that the solution is simply enforcement of the labour laws. I agree they should be enforced, but does anyone seriously believe FF, the PDs or FG will agree to this? Despite the much vaunted commitment to "multiculturalism", this is not the real motive of these parties in supporting mass-migration into Ireland.

The true agenda in my opinion is to reward the fatcats with cheap labour, and to destroy the trade-union movement. Immigrant workers are so desperate that many remain silent on abuses of their rights. Many have a poor knowledge of English and this makes understanding these rights harder. The minimum wage in Estonia is just 0.98c per hour, and 1.50 an hr in Latvia. In that context, is it really so surprising that immigrant workers are getting paid so low and are so willing to work for such low pay?

By all means increase the labour inspectorate that is supposed to be policing the minimum-wage, and the number of inspections. But remember that in a Coalition government Labour will find it extremely difficult to get its own way on this issue fully. And even if we had an adequately-resourced inspectorate, it would do nothing for the estimated 100,000 who are working in the black-economy. We should let some immigrants in, but the rates of immigration into this country at present are far too high. 162,000 PPS no.s were issued to nationals of the new EU member states since Enlargement. But we only have 31 inspectors (on paper and it is alleged that some of these are still in training judging by Tony Killeen's unsure answer in the Dail to a question from Brendan Howlin) i.e. 1 inspector per 500,000 workers. The number of inspections has fallen from 10,000 in 2004 to 5,000 now. Why is this? I have a very good idea...

Irish Ferries is a wake up call for the Irish Left. We need to recognise now that it is possible to support tighter immigration controls without being racist. The race to the bottom represents an excellent reason to call for tighter controls. The new EU services directive will allow companies (if passed) on land to reflag and pay their workers Eastern European pay-rates. As Irish workers would refuse such rates, their jobs would go to the compliant Eastern Europeans. We need a cap on immigration at 30,000 per annum until the rest of the EU lifts their immigration controls on the new EU states. 12 of the original EU member states imposed such temporarily controls, which are allowed until 2011.

by R. Isible Tue Dec 13, 2005 07:39

How many of the Ukranian replacements sailors are going to try and live in Ireland? Trying to tie anti-immigration arguments into this issue is pretty desperate and unconvincing. The actual boats probably won't even be flagged in Ireland in the future.

If we were all as monomaniacally obsessed as your good self with immigration then we'd miss the boat on this issue.

If that's all that racists like yourself have to offer on this issue then you'd do better keeping silent. Thanks for the laugh though. (ps I don't for a minute believe that you're the innocent lamb that you pretend to be).

by AgainstPoliticalCorrectness - none Tue Dec 13, 2005 08:08

R.isible, I notice you haven't replied to my specific points. Presumably you must agree with them then, if your only reaction is to call people names. I am NOT a racist. In the long run, displacement of Irish people by cheap foreign labour can only increase racial tensions. It is people like me who are trying to avoid racism. It is people like you that want to close the door after the horse has bolted. Prevention is better than cure.

Displacement is where Irish people are replaced by cheap labour from abroad. By definition then, foreign labour is needed for displacement to occur.

by redjade Tue Dec 13, 2005 08:12

Wonderful photos, great Indymedia volunteer coverage - just great stuff - wish I was there :-) All these photos made me feel like I was.

The Hungarian news stories about this protest were disappointing.

People involved in and organisations leading this protest need to know how Ireland was portrayed.....

This was a protest against 'cheap labour' and low wages that migrant workers bring to Ireland.

huh?! I know this wasn't the case - but how did that become the message by the time it reached Central/Eastern Europe? Understand that the news reports were condensed into 45 seconds at most - so they explained it as simple as possible.

The essense of the news story was: 'Ireland protests aganst foreign workers' and NOT 'Ireland protests for equality in the workplace, including foreigners'

Activists and unions need to be very aware these days that their audience is global.

by AgainstPoliticalCorrectness - none Tue Dec 13, 2005 08:12

The unions themselves have admitted that exploitation and displacement are rampant throughout Ireland and not merely on ships, so my point stands. The EU services directive will allow companies to pay the Estonian minimum wage by re-locating their HQ there. We are next unless we introduce controls. Immigration for its own sake is blind ideology. It should be harnessed according to the needs of the economy, insofar as this is compatible with Irish people retaining their jobs and national identity. Seamus Brennan says we need 50,000 immigrant workers. Why then are we letting in over 150,000? When supply increases relative to demand, the price of something - in this case wage-rates - fall. Unions are right to oppose exploitation and displacement. However, the best way of preventing it is to reduce the supply of cheap immigrant labour. This has nothing to do with racism. Using the R word didn't do your side any good in the Citizenship Referendum. France is Ireland 20 years from now if we don't listen to Irish people's legitimate and non-racist concerns. The Far Right have 20% in France and are in government in several EU countries, because of the refusal of governments to countenance immigration controls. We need to avoid that happening here.

by AgainstPoliticalCorrectness - none Tue Dec 13, 2005 08:19

Redjade, of course we must stop exploitation. However, the very fact that immigrants come from poor countries means that they are going to be less demanding about pay and conditions, thereby driving down wage rates and working conditions. They are being used by politicians and companies to keep down wages and displace Irish people from their jobs.

I am not blaming immigrants, but I am partly blaming immigration. So it is the process, rather than the people, that I am attacking, and that distinction is important. For too long, debate on immigration has been silenced, in the name of "anti-racism". Such a device as namecalling like this tries to make out that anyone wanting immigration controls is a racist, which is a total nonsense. We need to openly debate this issue, with all sides of the argument getting the right to be heard. It's not good enough to simply call people who disagree with you names and expect everyone to toll in behind you. A lot of people who voted Yes to the Citizenship referendum were appalled by the arrogance of the No side on their high moral perch, demonising everyone else and claiming that they were Holier than Thou and far be it for anyone to actually express a different viewpoint. Such arrogance borders on dictatorship and needs to be replaced with a calm debate on the issue. If those with liberal views on immigration raise the temperature, then they are inciting others to do the same.

by redjade Tue Dec 13, 2005 08:39

AgainstPoliticalCorrectness - my comment was not directed at you - so chill.

One of many problems with your argument is that many im/migrants do work that Irish people are not interested in. Consider Dublin's Chinese population that wake up early early in the morning just so you can have your 'Irish breakfast' by 8am at neighborhood Spar. Just because they are willing to have relatively lower wages than the Irish is no excuse for exploitation - especially illegal exploitation.

'I am not blaming immigrants, but I am partly blaming immigration'

I remember the debates around EU Expansion - people that opposed entry of the 10 Accession States were saying the Irish economy would implode - well, it hasn't has it? There are many problems with the Irish economy, but immigrants seem to be proping it up rather than pulling it down.

'If those with liberal views on immigration raise the temperature, then they are inciting others to do the same.'

This is what's called 'paralysis of analysis' - the belief that if you do nothing, say nothing, act on nothing - all will be well.

by AgainstPoliticalCorrectness - none Tue Dec 13, 2005 09:58

"I remember the debates around EU Expansion - people that opposed entry of the 10 Accession States were saying the Irish economy would implode - well, it hasn't has it? There are many problems with the Irish economy, but immigrants seem to be proping it up rather than pulling it down.
"

Only a year yet. Overall unemployment numbers among Irish people have gone up by 10,000.. This is concealed by the % figure staying around 4.3%. The only conclusion we can draw on this is that foreigners must be taking the jobs. CSO figures also show that the rate of pay increase was just 2.7% this year, compared to 4% under Sustaining Progress. When you have Irish people working alongside cheap immigrant labour in the knowledge that the latter are being paid less, it makes Irish people afraid to speak up to demand pay rises, as they know foreigners will replaced them if they do. Immigration is being used to depress Irish wages.

If a situation is allowed to develop where our roads, schools, hospitals etc. are being built by cheap foreign labour instead of Irish people, then the taxation-revenue going to the Government will collapse, and then our economy will collapse with Irish jobs being lost under the "No Irish Need Apply" rules that Irish Ferries and their land-based counterparts seem to be introducing. The EU Services Directive, which allows landbased companies to reflag, will make things 100 times worse. We all have to look over our shoulder in the light of recent events and ask: am I next?

by R. Isible - AgainstStupidity Tue Dec 13, 2005 17:33

You haven't made any point other than that you think there are too many people immigrating and that you think stopping that will improve wages for people working in Ireland.

Your simplistic analysis completely ignores the problem that this news item is about: even if we implemented your policy it would NOT help the Irish Ferries workers. The ships would be reflagged and the jobs would go the way that most seafaring jobs have gone over the last 30 years, to exploited lowpaid outsourced labour.

As long as there is not strict enforcement across the EU of a decent, basic standard of life ensured by a minimum wage, good health care, schools and pensions (in other words a fundamentally SOCIALIST program) we'll be seeing people getting exploited or else getting laid off.

Immigration is a complete non-starter in this situation as a root cause: the Estonians aren't LIVING IN IRELAND! You and your ilk will be sitting on their arses wondering what happened when Eastern Europe emerges as the center of low-wage capitalist relocation. Well done.

Don't bother replying unless you have something new to add on the subject of the Irish Ferries dispute.

by AgainstPoliticalCorrectness - none Tue Dec 13, 2005 18:22

While the Latvian replacement staff are not living in Ireland, the GAMA workers were, and so are around 150,000 people who came here since EU enlargement. The forthcoming EU Services Directive will legalise reflagging for landbased companies, and this will certainly increase the relevance of immigration to this question.

by AgainstPoliticalCorrectness - none Tue Dec 13, 2005 18:23

I would also call for a European minimum wage to help deal with this issue.

by brow Tue Dec 13, 2005 18:43

Theres a good article here by Brian Lavery, which brings up the xenophobic undertones, he quotes Paul Smyth who's very aware of it and most of the Union leaders have made a point of saying "Protection for all workers", although its has been only when Irish workers are under threat that the public have taken an interest. Most foreign/wire stories I've see have the headline "Irish protest against cheap labour" but in the text don't detail it as as an anti-immigration protest.

by Capitalist Tue Dec 13, 2005 20:33

I'm glad you enjoyed your walk on friday. wish i could have made it but i had to get my hair cut. looks like the march really worked!! looks like the irish ferries workers are going to loose 25% of their redundancy money. great. keep it up guys.. whos the twat now.. idiot.