Christmas-Is it becoming commercial?

by Lefty type Wed Dec 21, 2005 13:31

...it would go away

by easter bunny Wed Dec 21, 2005 13:39

or will the GFA deliver?

by d'other Wed Dec 21, 2005 14:08

Psst.....don't say a word but a little birdie told me that one of the main reasons a lot of people buy presents for their loved ones is because they are harangued into from about two weeks before Halloween, when a god almightly barrage of ads starts plummeting down at their kids from all angles leading to weeks of pestering , something corporations quite happilt cultivate. For those without kids, there's enough sentimental slop staring muppets like Hugh Grant pouring out of the tv screen to have us all running off the edge feeling guilty because the love narrative in our own lives isn't as exciting. And if we're all so happy then why the constant myth of suicide rates being higher at Xmas? It may not be true, but its certainly on people's minds.

by guydebordisdead Wed Dec 21, 2005 15:38

Come shopping in Coolock or Santry, look at the stress on peoples faces. Working over-time to buy worthless crap for their kids who have been convinced by ads that they have to own it. Look at the single Mothers or Fathers who can barely afford their heating bill let alone a turkey, presents, tree and all those "wonderful" nights out. Some have to resort to buying stolen goods from local arseholes, borrowing money from scumbag money-lenders or putting it all on their credit card and hoping somehow they'll find the money next year.

You won't see them shopping on Grafton street or Dundrum, there is a real world out here slightly beyond your bourgeois bubble.

Is Chrismas commercial?
You're a fool to think it's anything other than a huge marketing campaign. Yes, giving is good and family is good - but what happens to those values the other 11months of the year.

by W Wed Dec 21, 2005 15:47

Marsh, the world's leading risk and insurance services firm, has nearly 30,000 employees and annual revenues exceeding $5 billion.

I imagine they pay you well down on Adelaide road, maybe that's why christmas is so magical and fun for you?

by hmmm Wed Dec 21, 2005 15:50

* the last weekend in july, when most in fixed employment go on holidays. THere are more lay-offs and unpaid wages that weekend than any other.

* The beginning of September, most in precarious work do not earn above their average annual income during the summer, September carries higher bills and for those with children the extra costs of schoolbooks. Note that Ireland is the only state in the EU not to provide free school books.

* Christmas. Unlike the holiday or back to school period, christmas is particularly difficult because avarice and materialism are now embedded in our society. And most can't afford to play the "keep up" game, other domestic costs also change fuel bills go up, and january brings "inflation".

The only good weekend to be poor is that around Mayday, when you can join with us and tell them we're still in struggle.

Is it a pyramid? no it isn't. Its the square of tallaght where rampant commercialism is breaking hearts..

by COLLEGEHEAD Wed Dec 21, 2005 17:03

Oh My God, you lefties are always trying to ruin everything. Christmas is the most benevolent of seasons, and youd try to ruin it by politicising it. Christmas is about Jesus, and family, and fun. If you want to focus on the material side of things, go ahead, your as bad as those people who accept it. Christmas is the only time of year people stay put, and look at Daniel O Donnell or Pat Kenny on the TV. Nobody like to be alone at Christmas, so it has a uniting effect. Presents and Santa Claus are minor parts of a traditional Christmas. I mean lefties try and ruin everything, especially Christmas. ILefty type you are stupid. "If we Ignore It Mabye It Will Just Go Away" thats the stupidest thing i have ever heard
Christmas Unites people
If people want to get into huge debt over Christmas, let them, its their choice, and as such they should be able to deal with the concequences, they should not make martyrs of themselves.
The reason behind bright cvolours is because "its the season to be jolly" people unite, and friends wish each other happy christmas

Those who focus on the commercial side are cranks, grinches and Scrooges. Christmas is a happy time for many. Some people are ill and others may have had deaths in the family, and then its not a good christmas. But those who put themselves in debt over christmas, its their bad choice

Of all thing i believe in the benevolence of Christmas, so dont ruin it

by joe Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:06

Save Xmas!
Happy Holidays.

Don't commercialise Xmas!

by redjade Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:26

Well, if the Pope is trying to be Santa Claus by wearing that hat - I'd say Christmas is dead.

Does that Red Hat have a subliminal message? Is it 'Things Go Better With Coca Cola™ or Christ™?

. . . . .

Snopes.com debunks the urban myth that Coca Cola invented Santa Claus - but does back up the idea that Coca Cola is chiefly responsible for our secular/commercial idea & imagery of Christmas and Santa Clause. Interesting read....

The modern image of Santa Claus
'...The Santa image may have been standardized before Coca-Cola adopted it for their advertisements, but Coca-Cola had a great deal to do with establishing Santa Claus as a ubiquitous Christmas figure in America at a time when the holiday was still making the transition from a religious observance to a largely secular and highly commercial celebration. In an era before color television (or commercial television of any kind), color films, and the widespread use of color in newspapers, it was Coca-Cola's magazine advertisements, billboards, and point-of-sale store displays that exposed nearly everyone in America to the modern Santa Claus image. Coca-Cola certainly helped make Santa Claus one of the most popular men in America...'

http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/santa.asp

Coca Cola: Bigger Than Jesus

by on of santas ho's Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:36

I'm happier that xmas is commercial than being a celebration of christianity. Christians have murdered raped and pillaged in christs name, committed genocide in Africa, the Americas, the middle east, fought wars in europe, christian against christian and mistreated human beings of other faiths. In Ireland christians have been discriminated against because of their 'brand' of christianity. Children raped and abused by christs 'chosen ones' .

Kids are better off thinking christmas is a time to get stuff than to celebrate a fairy tale that has caused so much pain for humanity.

by sun worshipper Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:36

The last time he was photographed in one was 7/12/05 when he put on the "tricorn" of spanish fascism, you can see it here :- http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=73019&results_offset=270&condense_comments=false#attachment16055
Now this hat above is not your vulgar common or garden Hen night party beanie.
Oh no.
its a camauro, has been part of the papal wardrobe since the 12th century. But it has not been worn in public since the death of John XXIII in 1963.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4551348.stm

There you go, indymedia ireland a wonderful resource for sun worshippers and anti-captialists.
Tomorrow of course I'd take great pleasure in uploading the real Sun God Photo you know from Brugh na Boinne thats of course if they still do the newgrange thing.

by angry sun god Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:48

This morning's winter solstice was obscured by cloud caused by capitalist pollution and the ancient ones disregard for the FF/PD transport policy.

this is what our God looked like 2 years ago.

brugh na boinne 2003

by Lefty type Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:52

ah come on now, we all know that pollution causes smog in built up areas, and that increased capitalism leads to increased emissions but "cloud caused by capitalist pollution"...in meath... I assume youre taking the piss man, otherwise you need a lesson in geography

by angry sun god Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:56

& whats even niftier is, my sister pushes the heavenly orb. Now what has your mortal geography to say?

by Setanta Thu Dec 22, 2005 15:27

I can see why the pope would endorce santa.

After all he's God for Kids -"he knows if you've been bad or good ETC"

I both like and dislike Christmas.

I like the giving and the reflections and the time people are supposed to take out to relax and cherish each other.

I dislike the crap presents that are shoved down our throats. What I like about christmas one can't buy.

I feel bad for thoses out there who are being left behind, but no matter how rich or poor a society is, there are always thoses who are left behind.

by Santa's little helper Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:58

Look this christmas is a commercial thing comes up every year, and a slanging match braks out between the overly festive types who see no wrong, and the wet blankets who can't enjoy anything that isn't perfect.

The simple answer is that christmas is a lot of things. At its core its an ancient celebration that spans many cultures and predates christianity whereby in the depth an dark of winter, people have a massive party to cheer themselves up.

Now in recent time commerical concerns have latched onto christmas bigtime, but they've latched onto everyother elment of culture too, so its not a special case.

At the end of the day you can take from it what you want, you can allow yourself to get sucked into the commercialism, or you can just put your feet up, have a few beers and have party like people have done for eons 'cos its even though its cold and dark it can oly brighter from here on in!

So stop moaning for one day (even though your concerns are valid and I agree with them) and just chill out and have a good time.

Merry Christmas, Happy Solstice, May the reborn light illuminate your year

by Barry Fri Dec 23, 2005 16:10

these guys have probably shown a very christian attitudeto the whole commercialisation thing . Moneylenders in the temple sort of thang

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FA4E9FDA-1FDF-40FD-872D-29214FB08F88.htm

by redjade Sat Dec 24, 2005 02:29

After 'The Changes' in Hungary (the euphemism people use to say end of Stalinist communism and Soviet occupation) all the commie symbols were happily pulled down from everything - and I do mean everything. Red Stars were everywhere, as were hammers and sickles, red flags and so on. You can see on many of the buildings in Budapest where old emblems were chiseled off and some new (or rather, old) Hungarian symbols were placed (or replaced?) in.

This is a country still reclaiming its past and defining itself after Nazi and Soviet occupations and dominance. And like Ireland, History is still not 'settled' after its independence.

As in many countries in Europe the Swastika is banned. Maybe this is true in other former commie countries, but Hungary also bans the Red Star. Here it is seen as synonymous.

Last November a leader of the Hungarian Communist Workers' Party received a one-year suspended sentence for wearing a red star ( http://tinyurl.com/exb6u ).

I was remembering that story this week as ex-Pioneer and I have been buying christmas presents and decorations for our small tree. In many of the kitsch christmas shops you can buy a red star for your tree.

No one seems to be arrested for this. There was some debate in the press here about Heineken Beer's symbol, but I don't think anything came of it. Red Stars seems to be ok for capitalism and christmas, but not for politics.

Yes, there's a lot of hypocrisy about this - but considering history I can understand way.

ex-Pioneer and redjade's christmas tree

illegal christmas tree ornament

by dickens - non union represented writer of journals and - novels by the chapter on contemporary themes. Sat Dec 24, 2005 18:32

``A merry Christmas, uncle! God save you!'' cried a cheerful voice. It was the voice of Scrooge's nephew, who came upon him so quickly that this was the first intimation he had of his approach.

``Bah!'' said Scrooge, ``Humbug!''

He had so heated himself with rapid walking in the fog and frost, this nephew of Scrooge's, that he was all in a glow; his face was ruddy and handsome; his eyes sparkled, and his breath smoked again.

``Christmas a humbug, uncle!'' said Scrooge's nephew. ``You don't mean that, I am sure.''

``I do,'' said Scrooge. ``Merry Christmas! What right have you to be merry? what reason have you to be merry? You're poor enough.''

``Come, then,'' returned the nephew gaily. ``What right have you to be dismal? what reason have you to be morose? You're rich enough.''

Scrooge having no better answer ready on the spur of the moment, said, ``Bah!'' again; and followed it up with ``Humbug.''

``Don't be cross, uncle,'' said the nephew.

``What else can I be,'' returned the uncle, ``when I live in such a world of fools as this Merry Christmas! Out upon merry Christmas. What's Christmas time to you but a time for paying bills without money; a time for finding yourself a year older, but not an hour richer; a time for balancing your books and having every item in 'em through a round dozen of months presented dead against you? If I could work my will,'' said Scrooge indignantly, ``every idiot who goes about with ``Merry Christmas'' on his lips, should be boiled with his own pudding, and buried with a stake of holly through his heart. He should!''

``Uncle!'' pleaded the nephew.

``Nephew!'' returned the uncle, sternly, ``keep Christmas in your own way, and let me keep it in mine.''

``Keep it!'' repeated Scrooge's nephew. ``But you don't keep it.''

``Let me leave it alone, then,'' said Scrooge. ``Much good may it do you! Much good it has ever done you!''

``There are many things from which I might have derived good, by which I have not profited, I dare say,'' returned the nephew: ``Christmas among the rest. But I am sure I have always thought of Christmas time, when it has come round -- apart from the veneration due to its sacred name and origin, if anything belonging to it can be apart from that -- as a good time: a kind, forgiving, charitable, pleasant time: the only time I know of, in the long calendar of the year, when men and women seem by one consent to open their shut-up hearts freely, and to think of people below them as if they really were fellow-passengers to the grave, and not another race of creatures bound on other journeys. And therefore, uncle, though it has never put a scrap of gold or silver in my pocket, I believe that it has done me good, and will do me good; and I say, God bless it!''

The clerk in the tank involuntarily applauded. Becoming immediately sensible of the impropriety, he poked the fire, and extinguished the last frail spark for ever.

``Let me hear another sound from you,'' said Scrooge, `` and you'll keep your Christmas by losing your situation. You're quite a powerful speaker, sir,'' he added, turning to his nephew. ``I wonder you don't go into Parliament.''

``Don't be angry, uncle. Come! Dine with us to-morrow.''

Scrooge said that he would see him -- yes, indeed he did. He went the whole length of the expression, and said that he would see him in that extremity first.

``But why?'' cried Scrooge's nephew. ``Why?''

``Why did you get married?'' said Scrooge.

``Because I fell in love.''

``Because you fell in love!'' growled Scrooge, as if that were the only one thing in the world more ridiculous than a merry Christmas. ``Good afternoon!''

``Nay, uncle, but you never came to see me before that happened. Why give it as a reason for not coming now?''

``Good afternoon,'' said Scrooge.

``I want nothing from you; I ask nothing of you; why cannot we be friends?''

``Good afternoon,'' said Scrooge.

``I am sorry, with all my heart, to find you so resolute. We have never had any quarrel, to which I have been a party. But I have made the trial in homage to Christmas, and I'll keep my Christmas humour to the last. So A Merry Christmas, uncle!''

``Good afternoon!'' said Scrooge.

``And A Happy New Year!''

``Good afternoon!'' said Scrooge.

His nephew left the room without an angry word, notwithstanding. He stopped at the outer door to bestow the greeting of the season on the clerk, who, cold as he was, was warmer than Scrooge; for he returned them cordially.

``There's another fellow,'' muttered Scrooge; who overheard him: ``my clerk, with fifteen shillings a week, and a wife and family, talking about a merry Christmas. I'll retire to Bedlam.''

This lunatic, in letting Scrooge's nephew out, had let two other people in. They were portly gentlemen, pleasant to behold, and now stood, with their hats off, in Scrooge's office. They had books and papers in their hands, and bowed to him.

``Scrooge and Marley's, I believe,'' said one of the gentlemen, referring to his list. ``Have I the pleasure of addressing Mr Scrooge, or Mr Marley?''

``Mr Marley has been dead these seven years,'' Scrooge replied. ``He died seven years ago, this very night.''

``We have no doubt his liberality is well represented by his surviving partner,'' said the gentleman, presenting his credentials.

It certainly was; for they had been two kindred spirits. At the ominous word ``liberality'', Scrooge frowned, and shook his head, and handed the credentials back.

``At this festive season of the year, Mr Scrooge,'' said the gentleman, taking up a pen, ``it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.''
``Are there no prisons?'' asked Scrooge.

``Plenty of prisons,'' said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.

``And the Union workhouses?'' demanded Scrooge. ``Are they still in operation?''

``They are. Still,'' returned the gentleman, `` I wish I could say they were not.''

``The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?'' said Scrooge.

``Both very busy, sir.''

``Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,'' said Scrooge. ``I'm very glad to hear it.''

by Robbie Tressel Mon Dec 26, 2005 02:03

You'd be better off reading The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists.

by wenceslas (protomartyr and victim of fraticide) Mon Dec 26, 2005 13:21

we have online books now. A quick reminder of your preface to the work you're still plugging from the "other world" (for though born in 1870 you're dead since 1911)

"In writing this book my intention was to present, in the form of an
interesting story, a faithful picture of working-class life - more
especially of those engaged in the Building trades - in a small town
in the south of England.

I wished to describe the relations existing between the workmen and
their employers, the attitude and feelings of these two classes
towards each other; their circumstances when at work and when out of
employment; their pleasures, their intellectual outlook, their
religious and political opinions and ideals.

The action of the story covers a period of only a little over twelve
months, but in order that the picture might be complete it was
necessary to describe how the workers are circumstanced at all periods
of their lives, from the cradle to the grave. Therefore the
characters include women and children, a young boy - the apprentice -
some improvers, journeymen in the prime of life, and worn-out old men.

I designed to show the conditions relating from poverty and
unemployment: to expose the futility of the measures taken to deal
with them and to indicate what I believe to be the only real remedy,
namely - Socialism. I intended to explain what Socialists understand
by the word `poverty': to define the Socialist theory of the causes of
poverty, and to explain how Socialists propose to abolish poverty.

It may be objected that, considering the number of books dealing with
these subjects already existing, such a work as this was uncalled for.
The answer is that not only are the majority of people opposed to
Socialism, but a very brief conversation with an average
anti-socialist is sufficient to show that he does not know what
Socialism means. The same is true of all the anti-socialist writers
and the `great statesmen' who make anti-socialist speeches: unless we
believe that they are deliberate liars and imposters, who to serve
their own interests labour to mislead other people, we must conclude
that they do not understand Socialism. There is no other possible
explanation of the extraordinary things they write and say. The thing
they cry out against is not Socialism but a phantom of their own
imagining."

_______________________________
impressed? then read it all online for free-
http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/readfile?fk_files=6412&pageno=8

by jesus Sun Jan 01, 2006 14:36

xmas is becomin 2 commercial wat happened 2 the birth of jesus and him bein the savior of the world and the incredible journey joseph and mary took to get to bethlehem. the shepards and the wise men etc.

by redjade Wed Jan 04, 2006 18:35

This is a rather surreal ramble of disgruntlement coming from the Meath Chronicle (owned by Sir Anthony O'Reilly, right?)

Starts with the 1916 Rising, segue ways into Ireland's new multiculturalism and migrants, then segue ways into an increase in crime, smears Residents Against Racism along the way, then uses RAR to slap at the Shinners - oh my! and only in 611 words!

anyway... the Quote:

'Such media outlets also blindly uphold the nauseating lunacy of twisted political correctness and perhaps inadvertently encourage friction with our migrant population. One example of this in the public sector was during Christmas when St James’s Hospital in Dublin decided to remove its Nativity crib because it might offend non-Christian employees or patients.

Apparently management were “very sensitive” to the multi-denominational nature of the hospital. The solution? Disrespect our own traditions so as not to offend others.

Even groups like Residents Against Racism appear oblivious to the current wave of crime when exercising their energy as to what takes priority in voicing anger - despite 30 per cent of households burgled, 40 per cent violent theft victims, 60 per cent households vandalised, 50 per cent assault victims (CSO 2004) and our health service crisis. But just mention the word ‘Deportation’ and they’ll be out on the streets - with the support of Sinn Fein, unless it’s a ‘Brit’? - with placards picketing the Dail or Department of Justice, despite the legitimacy of the legal decision.

Yes, we’ve come a long way from that other country of yesteryear and it can at times be confusing to grasp what it is to be Irish in today’s complex culture.

What would the Easter Rising heroes make of today’s Ireland? What would they make of the way in which senior members of Sinn Fein have skilfully distorted history?'

reposted at:
http://tinyurl.com/8uual

by Deirdre Tue Jan 17, 2006 18:18 deirdre at autistici dot org

but... it isn't right!
The pope's hat is a traditional hat called "camauro", which was typical of the popes of the past (before than Santa Claus).

I don't understand why you say he commercialize xmas, while he's the first against capitalism

by Me Tue Jan 17, 2006 18:28

...was commercial. The little blighter was brought gifts.