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Crime, a child of need or greed?

category national | crime and justice | opinion/analysis author Friday January 27, 2006 14:42author by Seán Ryan Report this post to the editors

Does the justice system replace the church?

An expose on our justice system, that examines, our court system, our laws, drug laws and points to a system that exercises authority only, not justice.

The single greatest crime within society today is of such complexity that it would require at least a whole book unto itself to start to unravel it all in its genius, its deviousness and its total and utter evilness. So to get a more holistic view of in a shorter space lets look at some of its consequences.

The first consequence is that the vast majority of families in this country both the single parent families and the garden variety type of families, have a future in which their children will not have a better existence than they have had.

It is one of the fundamental conditions that governs the theory of evolution, which has yet to be disproved, that each successive generation must either be better equipped or adapted or both than the previous generation, to deal with and surmount a forever changing environment. It seems that we are destined to violate this sacred law and of our own will and submission.

The second consequence is this. Happiness will be a dream other than short-lived distractions. For everyone, including those who rule, making misery, irregardless of the benefits, is sorry work.

The third consequence is this. Eventually when crime has finished spiralling out of control, law of the jungle shall rule.

The fourth consequence of this is welcome to another third world in the making. Yes we are heading towards a massive waterfall and all I see is fuckwits, paddling against each other or beating each other with the paddles. No water, no food, no electricity, no medical aid, no education, no nothing, just survive (maybe Ron Hubbard‘s story told a better description of society to be, than what man is about).

You think Africa and Asia were always this way?

Where does third world debt come from?

It comes from the parasites who promised to develop them, to educate them to, to civilize them, yah I’ll put fuckin’ manners on ya.

The fifth and most interesting consequence is apathy, yah you can see it coming but just don’t give a fuck. It’ll get sorted out, and sure even if it doesn’t, sure wont we be a wonder to behold, wont we be the world’s first white niggers. I use the ‘n’ word here meaning my darker skinned fellow human beings no disrespect whatsoever. It is us ourselves that I have lost respect for. Which brings me to the sixth consequence.

Sixth consequence. We lose our culture our national identity and respect for each other and ourselves. Social cohesion begins to melt and drift and change.

I say anyone who labels me as an anarchist is in a state of denial. All societies are in a state of anarchy all the time, irregardless to the system of government. We each do as we will and it is the whole of our law. Even if you submit to the will of the state it is an act of your will. If you don’t submit to the state and become a criminal or an enemy of the state then this too is an act of your will. To have and act on the will is to be an anarchist. To be an anarchist is to have a tendency to be a little antisocial every now and then.

I mean our justice system is chock a block full of people in denial, and on both sides of the coin too. It is a funny little system, in a messed up kind of way.

The first set of assumptions the state makes, is that they assume to take the place of the victim of the crime, and they assume the responsibility for the perpetrator. This is what gives them the right to dispense justice.

Look at where assumptions and presumptions got the accused and what they got for the victim. Assumption be the father of fuck ups.

As an extra titbit of information, the criminal justice system long ago removed pain and suffering, as issues when deciding on matters of compensation for victims (From the doomed rainbow coalition). Surely if these factors were removed from the crime itself, there would be no crime as such to answer to. Yes at the very onset, justice is removed from all questions relating to victims and in truth just furthers the crime perpetrated on them.

The next presumption the state makes is that the accused is innocent, until proven otherwise, hence he or she might get bail.

Why are the innocent getting hauled into court?

Getting confused? Wait it gets even better.

The Gardaí must treat you like a criminal even though you are presumed innocent. And they are therefore guilty of false arrest, for arresting the innocent. Of course they too have a right to be seen as innocent, and the vast majority of them are innocents and are therefore not guilty either until proven otherwise if at all.

The criminal even in the perpetration of his crime is innocent. In fact if he skipped bail and never went back to court he would remain innocent spurring a massive manhunt for a guiltless Irish citizen. Even when he is dragged back to court he has not committed a crime until the instant the judge or jury find him guilty. This seems a little unfair that this poor man had not committed a crime until someone decided and told him he had.

This is why it takes years to become a solicitor or a barrister, to swallow all this bullshit and to be able to regurgitate it. How come a jury doesn’t need training surely the jury has more burden than any of the anal retentives prancing around?

It doesn’t really enthuse you with confidence, what with its guiding principles being so messed up and full of shit, does it?

Not to mention, making a complete mockery of the notion of being tried by ones peers. Yes you cannot commit a crime unless your peers say it is thus and has been committed. Which is to say you cannot possess intent or malice that is of your own will, it also takes the will of your peers. This further makes the justice system stumble off into the abstract desert looking for even the illusion of water without so much as a pot to piss into. The jury runs off quick in case they get implicated in all this shit too.

So if you end up in court, all confused and dazed, try not to worry, because everyone else in there, is confused too, you see the Irish justice system is an example of a divine mystery.

Repeat after me, what is the justice system? The justice system is a divine mystery. Now you’re getting it. Exactly. The justice system has a God complex. And it’s full of priests who can waffle on forever about bullshit, charging you and the state an arm and a leg, and actually believing in their fevered imaginings, that they are bettering society and man. This is how you’ve been programmed since before your confirmation.

Even at the sentencing, the, afore impartial judge, will tell you how fucked up he thinks you are. The irony being that he has the right to do so wearing a dress and a wig (a throwback to his english roots). Yes the justice system is the true bride of the church. See what I mean when I say messed up. How could we be other than the land of rogues and robbers?

I mean even the jury system itself is deeply flawed in that all the jury must be human. Being thus, they are subject to emotions. It is quite conceivable that whether members of the jury liked the accused or not, is a factor in deciding his guilt (not including the rich and powerful here as technicalities are their get out or stay out of jail free cards). I mean to say if they had to rely on what was said by the barristers and the judge where would we be?

Guilty beyond a likable doubt.

You don’t believe me? Would you like to try this little experiment? Imagine you are the accused, you know you did nothing wrong and you know the evidence overwhelmingly points to this. So knowing all this why not have a little fun. When you are called to stand, say you will tell the truth not the absolute truth mind you, but adding no bullshit or fantasy, deliberately amen, start breaking your arse laughing at this point for a few minutes. If the thoughts of this dampen your belief that you will be found innocent can you still say you disagree?

Lets make it a little stronger you are having a nightmare you’ve been accused of murder but you know you are innocent. Now imagine in true nightmare fashion you are on the stand and every time the prosecution refers to or names the victim you burst out laughing, short of getting a new coat and some new friends with lots of drugs you are fucked. Your character and behaviour in the courtroom is as important as are the accusations levelled at your character and behaviour in the courtroom and perhaps more so as they are perceived behaviours as opposed to imagined behaviours.

Lets look at some of the crimes, laws and solutions some of these pillars of intellect peddle.

Lets look at one of the biggest ones, the menace of drugs.

Let me explain what a drug is. It is any substance that can be introduced into an organism that produces a physiological change within the organism, whether this produces a beneficial result or not is irrelevant. Everything from crack to oxygen are drugs.

I like to think of the criminalisation of certain drugs, as the privatisation of the Irish drugs industry. And before one spits ones teeth out in outrage, try to contradict this vision.

You see irregardless as to whether the government call the shots or not in regard to this massive industry, it will exist.

Do you want to know why?

Because the day I allow your presumption, never mind the morons in government, to tell me what I can and cannot do with and to my mind or my body, is the day that I will admit to being a slave. And for those who don’t or won’t get that, that’s tough. And I may add that if one has to ask another does one do drugs, in order to ascertain as to whether they do or not, then one should feel equally at ease asking does one masturbate and can one watch?

This be fighting talk so I suppose I’d better elaborate a small bit.

First of all I am in total agreement with Martin Luther King when he pointed out that if one breaks the law one must reap the consequences.

Mr. King often broke laws he felt were wrongful and discriminatory, and often went to prison for his supposed sins.

In fact he paid the ultimate price, when some white trash fellow American finally and irrevocably emancipated him, the only way he ever knew how to, by shooting him. (This is truly reminiscent of the biblical prophecy of where the stars shall fall from the sky.) I believe that any law worth breaking is worth doing the time for, or paying the tax, this is one of the many ways of highlighting the stupidity and the redundancy of certain laws.

Back in the last millennium, we repealed a very repugnant and backward law. We decriminalised suicide. Amongst other things, it stopped the state from burdening further those that suffer the inconsolable loss of a loved one. It took an unbelievable amount of patience and perseverance from incredible organisations, like the Samaritans and already grieving people to bring it about I may add.

Anyway this repugnant law removes one of the state’s chief arguments about the legality of drugs. The state says that drugs are bad for you, this is one of the reasons they are illegal.

Surely the ultimate act of one harming oneself results in death. Allow me to put it this way, the government in a sense recognise that the victim of suicide is not a criminal, yet at the same time he who is hurting himself but not dieing, is a criminal. In other words, if you are dead you are free, if you are not you are a slave.

Another reason drugs are bad, is that drugs are mind altering. Anything that presumes to do what the government feel that they and big business should have the sole right to do is bound to be seen as bad. Maybe this is why education in this country is so bad, education too would hint at being possibly mind altering.

Another reason drugs are bad, is that they actually can and do cause death, I suppose at least you wont be a criminal anymore. It’s kind of funny that drugs are seen as the cause of death and are labelled the bad guy in your stead.

You shall then be perceived as a martyr for anti-drug education and enforcement. Despite this not being your intention when taking the drugs to begin with.

However if you were just being recreational and survive, the emphasis of bad guy is placed on you, and not on the drugs.

Drugs are bad for us. Meaning the state. Yes they decrease the productivity of the state.

Having witnessed many a man do the work of five productive citizens, whilst under the influences of speed and other substances (I do not mean that I was under the influence), and I may add that when the five were tired and cranky these other guys were begging for more stuff to do.

Remember Ben Johnson at the Olympics, anyone who reckons he didn’t make all the other athletes in the 100-metre sprint, look like ‘junkies’, needs medicating.

I reckon sports would be a lot more active and entertaining, if athletes were allowed to self medicate, not to mention how entertaining factory work becomes, for both the participator and the observer. Be all that you can be and all that other propaganda. Let success decide,

Now I’m not for an instant advocating the rights of anyone to drug anyone else. Including the government’s supposed right to do so.

Here’s another interesting thought, you have the right to go and get yourself drugged up to the eyeballs, as long as you pay the state and big business for the right to do so. To make it funnier still, this is seen as a sociable activity and even has buildings provided to encourage it, called pubs.

Yup you can legally be a victim of alcoholism or you can be a criminal junkie drug addict, and depending on how you pay the government for your drugs, you will be or should be labelled as one or the other. According to the government’s terms, to use a substance occasionally is to be habitual, and to be habitual is to be dependant. Therefore, anyone who drinks occasionally, fits into this description and is therefore an alcoholic. Bloody labels!

Yes only the state shall decide which drugs shall be recreational and which shall be illegal.

All this from a shower, who legalised everything from aspirin to thalidomide. I’d trust my own opinion before theirs any day, what with a record, and I may add what should be a criminal record like this, as do most who defy the state by self diagnosis and self medicating.

It’s funny that your only right, when concerned with drugs, is to refuse them, even though this too may cause your death (except of course at times when the state supercedes this right and forcefully drugs you).

Of course one may legally experiment with drugs too, yup no problem. So long as you get them from a legalised drug dealing pharmaceutical company, or more to the point the pharmaceutical company may experiment.

With all this said, I at no time respect a kid’s right to self medicate, for recreation.

I must at least commend the state for setting the legal age to eighteen but at the same time smack them violently with the accusation, that they allow and aid big business to brainwash these same kids, through advertising and other methods through their formative years, that drug addiction when sanctioned and satiated by the state and big business, is a natural and sociable pastime, much in the manner they unleashed the church. Hypocrites for money.

Drugs are the reason for most of the crime in the country. Yes the black-market economy that develops from prohibition is both violent and repugnant. It is everything from a scumbag beating an old lady over the head to try to fund his next fix, to the untouchables, those vague and unrecognisable folk, who have achieved the capitalist’s dream and have wealth beyond their measure. This is usually and incredibly spouted as anti-legalisation propaganda and is therefore seldom reasoned through.

At least if the state bought, grew, manufactured and sold drugs, granny could give presents to big business again without interruption. Drug addicts could go back to just hurting themselves. Not to mention at last providing some indigenous non-privatised industry.

Look isn’t it time the state got off the old moral fence and recognised that their efforts to keep some drugs criminalized, is both totally and wholly ineffectual, and at the same time, is itself the reason for a black-market economy.

Not drugs.

I’m getting sick of the factory blaming the product for being inefficient.

And before the brotherhood of perverts sticks its nose in, isn’t it a fact, that one of the best known miracles in the bible, is when Jesus produced enough drugs at a party for everyone. Furthermore a lot of biblical scholars out there also believe, that this party was the afters of the marriage of Jesus and the supposed prostitute, Mary Magdalen. And I may add the drugs had been sullied by no would be capitalist’s grubby little hands, and were therefore of exceptional quality and purity, and not likely to cause hangovers or death.

Is someone who is taking drugs recreationally, being anti-social?

I don’t know, I am but one, whilst they are many.

I mean look at what would happen if we decriminalized drugs and disbanded the drug squad (Tax auditors).

We might even get to protect the rights of citizens not to be considered prey rather than protecting the state minus most of its people.

And look at all the revenue that the government would get. Imagine all the money that is spent on illicit drugs that could easily be converted into doctors, nurses, hospitals and lifesaving drugs, to mention but a few.

Think of the tourism boom, there would be more than just military planes landing at Shannon.

We could give some of our ex drug squad members uniforms and clubs, to go and round up the rowdy ones, and we could fine them for even more of their money, and later jail them if they repeat. We could make them go cold turkey, and test newly developed drugs, medical procedures, and students on them, sure who better to test new drugs and stuff on than those who actually want to try the stuff out, the only animal I‘ve ever seen volunteer is man. We could keep them in prison until their relatives coughed up for the fines and paid us for keeping them.

The possibilities are endless and lucrative, and are a fun and novel way of introducing America, to the Irish dream which says, don’t fuck with us, lets teach the fuckers the proper way to build an empire. Of course the rest of the drug squad could be integrated back into the Gardaí (guardians of the peace).

For those who think me wrong, for wanting to educate America, allow me to refer to my city’s ancient and traditional and Irish motto; Limerick an ancient city, skilled in the art of war.

Seemingly it has long passed since we were willing to stand up and fight for what is ours.

Anyway.

We’d still have drug users you say.

Yes but now you are dealing with and in a position to deal with them.

I mean you have hit them with everything else, why not try talking to them, debating, educating and being educated. I mean when two countries are at each others throats, we are first in there with little care for our own safety, trying to get them to see reason. Except of course where America is concerned, who’s own draining and ineffectual zero tolerance policy our own is parroted on. Again another example, of a policy that does not reflect the indicative Irish heritage and personality, the humane and traditional method, of deciding policy, or indeed the traditional policy itself, that our first article promises and or threatens (to those who ignore it).

Yes drugs are a form of escapism, for both the users and our government, from each other mostly. Furthermore, one of them, who is in fact, sworn to respect, represent and protect all and by negating and renaging on the other is neglecting its duty.

In the blink of an eye, we would happily and rightly integrate with all our brothers and sisters in the North.

We would just as happily see them decide their own fate.

We are hypocrites, that we would not integrate with our other brothers and sisters, who live amongst us, a massive group, and a society, and a culture unto themselves, who beg for understanding and equality and they do so, with more respect, patience and understanding than they are treated with.

To deny the right to be different is to claim infallibility.

And to think oneself to be infallible, is to be truly fucked in the head.

Ok let’s look at another biggie, murder, premeditated harmful intent, and of sound mind, other than the fallibility of one’s assumed right to take life.

This is the theft of life, and he who has need, that would outweigh the life of a supposedly equal other, is firstly to be pitied, then must be contained.

To take a life without ones own life being at risk, is to show that it is worthless in comparison to he who would take it. It is he who unless he has never felt fear is the most foul of hypocrites, liars and thieves. He believes not in the need for society, but in his need to subjugate it.

Every human being I believe is capable of taking another life given the right circumstances. It is with this in mind when I say redemption is possible.

Of course our courts don’t even begin to look at it this way.

Attempted murder is so rarely tried that we must have the most successful bunch of murderers on the planet.

The victim is not a credible eyewitness.

I would look at attempted murder in the following way. Attempted murder is the charge that must be levelled if the perpetrator would have been charged with murder if the victim had died. Now it seems to me if the state is equipped to deal with murder then it is self evidently equipped to deal with attempted murder. So what is it with lesser charges like gbh. and abh. being used instead of attempted murder? Solicitors and barristers say this is because it is very hard to prove attempted murder.

I truly am dumbfounded; this is admitting there is a serious flaw within the justice system and then just glossing over this fact by condescension and gross negligence.

Lets talk about theft that does not physically harm someone at least not as the prime motive.

The thief who leaves his victims with greater need than he had, in taking that which was not his is a total scumbag as well as a thief.

I reckon Charlie Haughey was only one step away from being a Robin Hood. He robbed from the rich and told them to go fuck themselves. He just forgot to pass it on to the poor.

To spend millions upon millions on a tribunal, that will never result in any criminal prosecutions, is a greater, and more vile a crime, than any processed in this fashion, have perpetrated. And in particular at a time when the present serving taoiseach is a former rubberstamper of cheques, for he who is now supposedly a dirtbag, with no questions asked. The Teflon taoiseach was born, 100% shit resistant.

I really dislike the scumbag variety of thief.

The Gardaí.

This is again a question of where do I start. I’ll start by being nice for once and in this case rightly so.

This is not a condescension on my behalf, it is a fact. Every garda knows when he or she puts on his or her cap, they may not live long enough to do so again.

It is a high adrenaline job and therefore very stressful. For the criticisms I will shortly heap upon this group of would be courageous people, many who would and who have died for this country, I direct against the state and the institution of the Gardaí.

I say the proper training, backup and help that Gardaí should rightly receive, has to be non-existent and that this is the cause of what will shortly follow.

Some of the Gardaí that I have met I would give the highest rating that I could give to another human being. They gave of themselves at cost to themselves, for no other reward than to help a fellow human being.

I have seen a single young officer rush to the aid of someone being attacked by a mob, with no thoughts of his own personal safety and with no sign of backup in sight, where I must confess, that I myself lacked either the courage or I may add, the legal justification or backup should I have done so. This was a moment of true education for me, in that I learned, that I was not as I wished to be, and at the same time I learned never to judge a book by the cover.

Ok nice stuff said. I have also seen many examples of Gardaí singular and in groups behaving like lower lifeforms too. This being all the worse as there is no hope for justice. The word of the garda is always taken before the word of an ordinary citizen and is thus another example of inequality within our so-called justice system.

Why is it that the Force seeks to turn, those who are of our finest and noblest of spirit, into that which they are sworn to fight?

I mean it’s like social welfare all over again.

Here is my problem; I’ve seen Gardaí do very illegal stuff; from violating the rights of prisoners etc., to not using indicators when turning. I know and believe lots of others who say they have seen and been treated similarly. How come a garda is very rarely arrested? Particularly when those who associate with these people must see them in action much more than I would.

Fair enough I could be a liar or deluded.

Depending on where you live, you may need to wait hours, for a response from Gardaí, even though you and they may feel your life is at risk. I may add this is not relative, to how far you live from the nearest active response center either. Having been a victim of this myself, I defy anyone to call me a liar.

Also, should you take a report of a crime to the Gardaí, it is again obvious that whatever rung of society you hang from, decides the response to your complaint, if any. Again being a victim of this type of disrespect and non-cooperation, I defy anyone to call me a liar.

The funny thing is that I am not a victim by nature or action, I am certainly not a pacifist. But that didn’t stop the state from turning me into one (a victim I mean).

Again, yes it is possible I could be lying, I might have dreamt it all. I am not and I didn’t, but I do concede I could have if you will concede that I may be telling the truth.

But John Carthy isn’t a figment of my imagination. Of course after the murder of this citizen the first thing the government wanted to do was to set up an inquiry, instead of making individual arrests and God forbid, using the criminal justice system.

At no time did this citizen, and fellow troubled human being, deserve a death sentence, and anyway our law forbids it. The Gardaí still have to show a single justification for this homicide.

I mean before shooting him, they denied him contact with his family, his psychologist, they wouldn’t give him any cigarettes. This poor and desperate man was slowly isolated from all he knew and when he finally cracked, instead of incapacitation the Gardaí employed a shoot to kill policy.

No trial, no judgement of guilt, very cheap, the cost measured in life and lead. Again, remember no death penalty in this country, seems to me to suggest, that the only time one may start to think about taking a life, is when that life is an immediate and direct threat to the life, or lives of other human beings. And I dont care what excuse is given I refuse to see John Carthy as a threat to anybody other than himself once the Gardaí became involved, I would also suggest that this would be the point of Garda intervention in the first place, I would also suggest that John Carthy at all times was and is an Irish citizen, and that his peace should also have figured in their dealings with him.

Yes we’ll let them police themselves. Garda ombudsman, don’t make me laugh the state will hardly find fault with its demoralised would be heroes that the government tries so hard to turn into a pack of storm troopers either.

Newspapers and other media take heed, this is your solemn duty, it is not too late to turn back. We all get lost sometimes. There was a time that some newspapers were as courageous as their journalists, this time needs to come again, please enough of the gossip, celebs and the hard sell. Enough of the sewer it is time to look up again. Here is a prediction, and a warning. The Internet will replace you should you not take the reins now. This will be a bad thing. It will take Internet sites generations to build the respect and heed that you but inherited. We need newspapers who will charge into the mob to protect us and be damned be the consequences. (Most of this was written a few years back, currently I believe traditional media services to have failed completely, it is now up to the people to be their own voice, through such excellent forums of opinion like Indy.)

As for the Gardaí and state, as I said earlier you recruit those who wish to give of themselves for their people. You have no right to take this from them, or us.

Shame on you.

Sláinte
Seán Ryan

author by Observer2publication date Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:40author email observer.two at gmail dot comauthor address author phone Report this post to the editors

To refer to Ireland having a "crime" problem is misleading. What we have is a social problem.Crime cannot be taken in isolation, it cannot be seperated from it's community context. Under the present system that is what happens. The community has no voice in the process. It is largely alienated from it.

It is also not in the interests of anyone involved in the "criminal justice" system to seek to change it. There is too much personal financial gain for solicitors and barristers for them to even consider a move toward restorative justice systems.

New Zealand have had a RJ system in operation for some time for juvenile offences. One of the main orchestrators of that system , Jim Considine, spent some time in Ireland a couple of years ago and gave some talks(at Dublin Catholic Worker) on this subject. From what I recall of listening to him he indicated that the RJ system resulted in better outcomes for both the perpetrator and the victim, I also recall him pointing to studies(i cant provide references as i'm operating from memory) which showed that RJ resulted in much lower rates of recidivism.

The primary differences between the British criminal justice system (which is what is in place in R.O.I) and RJ systems is that the context is retained and the system is accessible and easily understood by the entire community.

author by Seán Ryanpublication date Sun Jan 29, 2006 04:43author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Exactly, observer 2. I personally like the idea of restorative justice, but I think it needs more development. Maybe not the principles of it but how one could introduce it into a society like ours. We have generations who've learnt not to face those who victimise them. They've learnt not to want to have to face them. I think it could be introduced, but only if our whole system got overhauled at the same time. Can you imagine the effect if the current shower of idiots in the Dáil introduced it? Possibly it could be introduced in stages by the current idiots, but I have my doubts. Your points reminded me of something I've thought about a lot since writing this. Even if we had no crime whatsoever, we still could not tell whether our "justice" system worked or not. It's not a logical process, any planned for results must at best be considered wishful thinking. When you couple this with the fact that we do have a smidgen of a crime problem, it comes out that our system might be imaginary, it might not, but as far as crime is concerned, it's irrelevent. Excepting of course unless you belong to a special clique. I think if our government introduced restorative justice its final outcome would be similar to merging the health service with the justice system and prison service. I think restorative justice could be introduced over a generation, or rather it would take a generation to suss it out, but I seriously think it would work. It reminds me of American Indian culture before the current occupants arrived.

As for sorting it all out so that such a system could be introduced. We have to simplify it all. Every law has to be understood by everyone and everyone must be aware of every law. I don't mean this in a black & white way, common sense should gauge and temper the law, not an unfeeling or an unthinking and constrained legislation.

Everyone is under the Constitution, it's the primal law here. Up until very recently this contract that doesn't require your actual signature to consider you legally bound to it, was out of print, and it probably will be again before long. Anyway, maybe a good idea might be for the state, to hand out a copy of the Constitution with each and every birth certificate it hands out.

Educate people, dumb down justice.

Seán

author by observer2publication date Sun Jan 29, 2006 01:47author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The law, is a completely different thing to justice. In Ireland our concern is with the law and the continuation of a legal system that was imposed on us and serves no one except the professions employed in it's administration. It's perpetuation is in the interests of those who rule. And yes, it's language and ritual hark back to the tridentine mass, designed to keep the masses in deferential ignorance.

Restorative justice presents a much better system than the present one.

http://www.restorativejustice.org.nz/

author by Seán Ryanpublication date Sun Jan 29, 2006 00:43author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I haven't read the book but I'm familar with it through other books and media.

It's a complex issue, the rights of citizens to march on criminals. I'd suggest had they marched on politicians they would have been more correct.

Their stance showed they had no faith in our justice system, and yet their faith was restored when the justice system acted on them, amidst other acts by criminals on them.

I think this "faith" issue is the real issue. Either the law exists or it doesn't. Force cannot constitute a proof either. Only witnessed justice can.

I think in this particular case that the residents got it wrong and that they didn't cast a wider net. They should have marched on Dáil Éireann, shouting "pushers out!!"

There are more legal drug deals done in ireland than illegal ones. Walk into any hospital, walk up to a doctor and ask to borrow his pen. You'll get the name of a drug dealer he likes written on the side of it.

Now don't get me wrong, you see someone take your community apart, you return the favour. I'm just saying that the residents didn't plumb the depths of criminality.

As for Joe, worried about cash and guns, me too.
Unlike Joe, I don't see individuals or perverting the system as the problem, I see the whole system as being at fault. Squeezing the problem here or there will not fix it, it'll just cause it to bulge out elsewhere. The whole sorry mess has to go, political system included. We must think and start again.

Sláinte
Seán

author by Con Carroll - Class-Warpublication date Fri Jan 27, 2006 16:07author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Sean
have you read the book pushers out?
it is how the state tried to criminalise communitties and activists for standing up to the drugs trade

Joe Costello (labour party)
has asked how did a large sum of money to the value of 40,000 disappear from Fitzgibbons garda station along with firearms
the property confisicated belongs to a drug pusher Murphy from D.1

 
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