Should the USA attack Iraq? Let the US know what you think

by BlackPope Sat Jul 06, 2002 11:38 BlackPope at operamail dot com A Cave-Hideout someplace inside occupied Europe !!

Before jumping to sign this warmongering poll, please carefully consider the following:

Even participating with a negative 'vote' in such a poll is in itself offering ammunition to the warmongers, since -

1. The question posed is illegitimate - a proposed war-crime of aggression against a sovereign state, obviously precluded by the rule of International Law.

2. They can then say, 'wow, look how many kiddies paricipated in our warmongering poll'.

3. The results will *always* indicate the exact amount of support from *public opinion* that the US Government deems necessary to successfully swing the war-crime.

4. It's not called 'CIA-Noise-Network' for nothing you know!!

5. This bullshit has all the typical, stinking hallmarks of an operation of 'Manufacture of Consent', or at least the appearance thereof, which, for the immediate practical purposes of the warmongers, is the very same thing.

6. This time-wasting ploy organised by the very interests engaged in preparing to execute the war-crime is deliberately designed to subvert and divert energy away from any effective effort or strategy to hinder the prosecution of same.

7. The equally illegal attack against Vietnam wasn't stopped by shitty CNN polls, but by large-scale actions of civil-disobedience and resistance on the streets and in the Universities. Try to remember this!!

So, YankAbroad, sorry to shred any illusions you may have been nourishing there, but it is necessary, if you seriously want to have any *EFFECT* in stopping planned war-crimes. My recommendation to you - Rethink your goals (the first of which should be: 'I will not propagandize for my enemy'), organise, plan strategy, and then get it out on the streets!!

Schalom, BlackPope

by YankAbroad Sat Jul 06, 2002 17:48

>3. The results will *always* indicate
>the exact amount of support from
>*public opinion* that the US Government
>deems necessary to successfully swing the
>war-crime.

I wonder is that true. Personally I suspect that you are wrong. It is far more likely that the sample of participants that self-selects for a CNN online poll consists of people that absorb the skewed information put out by CNN. You seem to be suggesting that CNN/CIA will rig the vote. It's not impossible, but I am skeptical.

>6. This time-wasting ploy organised by the
>very interests engaged in preparing to
>execute the war-crime is deliberately designed
>to subvert and divert energy away from any
>effective effort or strategy to hinder the
>prosecution of same.
>
>7. The equally illegal attack against Vietnam
>wasn't stopped by shitty CNN polls, but by
>large-scale actions of civil-disobedience and
>resistance on the streets and in the
>Universities. Try to remember this!!

Two excellent points with which I whole-heartedly agree. I don't agree that this counts as "propaganda for my enemey" though. However I do take your comment seriously. In the same vein I offer back to you the following advice: the tone of your last paragraph really set my teeth on edge as it smelled faintly of superiority and preaching.

by BlackPope Sat Jul 06, 2002 23:02 BlackPope at operamail dot com A Cave-Hideout someplace inside occupied Europe !!

Dear YankAbroad,

yes, it's so easy to preach but not practise - I do make genuine efforts to restrain myself, sometimes!

That last sentence was actually more a generic idea for general consumption than specifically directed at you, as I have no way of knowing what your levels of organisation and action are.

Are 'Polls tools of the devil?!' - my answer: if it is political, then yes, predominantly they are just that, and in the case of CNN the certainty actually exceeds 100%.

As to at which velocity streams of Government Propaganda gush from every orifice of CNN's stinking corporate cadaver, you will find some interesting notes here (TENC)
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/devries/love.htm

.. and here (FAIR)
http://www.fair.org/activism/cnn-psyops.html

This indicates a level of sophistication in the control of mainstream-media content that many people would find incredible - so, yes, it's a tie-break really; they probably don't stoop to rigging the results *afterwards*, seeing how they don't need to, as the whole shitty gig is rigged from the get-go. End result, da house always wins!

It was far from my mind to imply that you would *willingly* make 'propaganda for the enemy', although I suppose I should have been more explicit on that point. The system is, if anything, certainly subtle, possibly not even centrally coordinated and approaching an almost matrix-like perfection of infiltration and coverage for those with incurious and sheepish minds.

Speaking now for the broad majority, I would say we were all subject to these pernicious propaganda influences to a large extent for the better part of the average childhood, at the very least - it is not so easy to just dump a way of thinking so ingrained, therefore, the degree to which people *are willing* to free themselves from the same will vary widely, and even in those who are fully willing, complete success is hardly guaranteed and certain vestiges will perhaps always remain in their thought-processes.

Ultimately, we are not responsible for what we have been exposed to, but we are individually and collectively responsible for extricating ourselves from the resulting mess.

I do know one thing for sure - the US-Army (among others) doesn't spend millions training up Doctors of Psychology just to have them sit around eating twinkie-bars outta their own asses for ever after, with maybe occasionally getting up and putting on some clothes to deal with the General's between-wife crises every couple of years - these jazzed-up monkeys are into controlling/manipulating opinion and thought in whole continents, and they are bizzziiy as beeaavverrrss, yes Beevers!!

If I may make some long-term recommendations to you on this whole topic, they would be, first, if you have not already done so, study the books 'Manufacturing Consent' by Chomsky and Herman, and 'Brave New World' by Aldous Huxley, then listen to this speech by Huxley, 'The Ultimate Revolution' as presented in 1962 at the Berkley Language Center: ( http://www.sweetliberty.org/audio/hux1.ram )

Also, this author, who is himself a psychologue by training, seems to have a pretty good idea what he is talking about: ( http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/ )

Finally, let's both keep those points 6+7 in the mind's eye and get on with doing what so urgently needs to be done. If you think, as I do, that we could usefully stay in touch, then please email me.

Yours sincerely, BlackPope

by firechicken Mon Jul 08, 2002 07:48

Personally I think polls by CNN, ABC, BBC and all their friends are not rigged....in the results; however the questions are almost always leading you do a certain conclusion. Say for example "do you support a U.S attack on dictator Saddam Hussien" as suppossed to "do you support an attack on Saddam Hussien". You are obviously being pushed in one direction.