Attempt By Loyalist To Stall Irish Peace Process Fails

by Mary anne Sun Nov 26, 2006 08:39

Found this old postcard pic

by Johnny Jump Up - non-aligned Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:45

As a nationalist/realist, I have to say that it's not as black and white as SinnFein being helpful, DUP getting cold-feet.

Sinn Fein have to accept the policing body, and still they don't, publicly. It is not entirely in the interest of the loyalists for SinnFein sympathisers to be joining the PSNI, but they seem quite happy to accept that, yet the Shinners just won't concede.

There are plenty of Catholic PSNI members who are not excited about Sinn Fein signing up to the Policing Boards. They fear that their new bosses and colleagues, will shun them, overtake them in promotion and make their lives a misery for joining up without the PSNI getting the SinnFein imprimatur.

From my understanding, if Sinn Fein say publicly that they will support and participate in the Policing Board, as agreed at St. Andrews, the DUP will nominate Ian Paisley and everything will progress smoothly towards the elections. End of story.

As for Michael Stone, he is not a part of any loyalist conspiracy, he is not a patsy.

He is just an unhinged, idiot with half a brain who has got caught up in all the fervour of the troubles. That became a large part of his identity and he is afraid of watching that identity slide away. I don't feel sorry for him, he is a killer after all. But I don't think that he has support from any quarter in Northern Ireland today. If he does have support, it is from the pubs buried within loyalist strongholds who themselves are drifting into irrelevence. There might just as easily be a Michael Stone on the republican side of the fence.

The growth in the economy brought about by political stability is like a good tide raising all boats. Financial comfort encourages a degree of apathy, and thus peace. It is the same apathy which causes a lack of protest about Rossport or Shannon Airport. But it is not malign. It is perfectly healthy for people not to feel that they must protest. It is entirely normal. What would be more of a concern would be if people felt so desperate that they have to gather in the streets to voice a concern for any cause. People just don't feel the need anymore. We've grown up.

by Jimmy Jumped Up Sun Nov 26, 2006 13:19

Your wishful thinking is quaint and touching, JJU. Unfortunately for you, people haven’t forgotten about protesting because of your beloved “prosperity” and “maturity”. 100,000 people marched against Ireland’s support for the US invasion of Iraq. Most of those people have stayed at home since, not because they are apathetic or dulled by prosperity, but because they were demoralised by the anti-democratic refusal of the Government to pay any heed to what they said. The feelings of the average punter towards the war, and the use of Shannon, were well demonstrated this year when a jury unanimously acquitted the anti-war activists who damaged a US warplane.

And even you can’t pretend to believe that there have been no protests in Rossport – the non-violent protests against the project have been so significant that the police were forced to use brutal violence in an attempt to intimidate people (prompting laughable attempts on your part to deny video and photographic evidence showing the Gardai attacking peaceful protesters). S2S hasn’t attempted to organise a massive national demo on the scale of the 2003 anti-war rally – no doubt they’ve digested the lesson that it’s not enough to have a big protest if you want government policy to change, you have to actually make an impact and make it impossible for them to ignore you.

You can carry on living in an ideological fantasy world, where everyone in the South is a nice little PD and Ian Paisley is a man of peace whose work is being frustrated by the dastardly Shinners. The rest of us will carry on living in this world and taking note of the evidence of our own eyes.

by Barry - 32 csm Sun Nov 26, 2006 15:34

The deadly assassin was armed with a toy gun and his bombs appear to have been of the non lethal variety ( much like the South African cellulose encased stun grenades he threw at Milltown cemetery all those years ago) . 50 years of age , friendless , wating every day for an assassins bullet , wracked with arthritic pain and barely able to walk , mentally disturbed with a long history of clinical depression . Disarmed and neutralised by a middle aged blonde lady who was unarmed .
Charged now by the British with trying to murder Gerry and Martin , whove been claiming all their republican opponents are out to kill them over the last few weeks . Their republican opponents , internal and external , have been calling for them to enter into immediate and urgent public democratic debate about their plans to join a British counter insurgency force under the direction of MI5 . But Gerry Martin and Jim Gibney maintain the RIRA , INLA , CIRA and various other such as Eirgí and even P Sinn Fein members are all plotting together to kill them . Therefore therell be no debate . And Gerry can now point to the proof of some sort of threat against him now this deeply disturbed man whose been used as a puppet by British intelligence most of his life has very publicly tried to kill him with a toy gun .

Onwards to victory , join the British police .

by Shredd-it Mon Nov 27, 2006 02:08

No attempts have to be made to stall the' Peace Process', it has been stalled for quite a long time now and it's going absolutely no where, and where, indeed, would it be going with the likes of Paisley running the Stormont Asylum. If Paisley agrees to marry the bold Martin McGuinness and they begin administering British imperialism together, do you honestly believe it would work - they would tear each other apart (although I'd pay in to see the fight). In my opinion, I don't think Paisley is capable of running a tuck shop and I don't think Martin McGuinness would have the patience to put up with him.

With regard to Michael Stone - what a pathetic sight, he's a menace to all, he should have stuck to the art work, at least he was good at that, but in my opinion, some shadowy agents in either MI5 or the PSNI must have facilitated him in some small way in getting to the door of the Brit Assembly to carry out his mission (some in the security forces may fear their job security with the marriage of Paisley & McGuinness).

Ireland does not need the help of the USA. I mean, what would the President of the United States know about peace, he has sent American soldiers out to kill over 650,000 Iraqis and is a menace to world peace, what an earth could Ireland learn from the USA about peace! Keep your advisers at home please.

Tear up that Good Friday Agreement!

by Puzzled Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:24

It is being reported that Michael Stone is expected to serve a further 20 years in jail because of his "outburst" in Stormont last Friday. I'm no fan of this lunatic but I do think certain questions need to be clarified:-

1. How did a known killer whose face is well known to people from his many television appearances manage to get into Stormont, particularly on such an important day? Anyone who ever visited Leinster House, even long before the current paranoia about terrorism, will know how absurd the idea is. One would kind of expect Stormont security to be even more vigorous. Heck you even have to take your shoes off in Dublin Airport.

2. It was reported in the media that Stone carried a gun and television pictures showed a female security officer holding a gun which she apparently seized from Stone. By Friday evening it was being reported that the gun was a replica. In today's news it seems to be a real gun again. What is the true story?

3. It is reported that Stone had eight explosive devices in a plastic bag. The nature of these devices has not been clarified. Were they grenades, pipe bombs, rockets or just Halloween bangers?

4. It is also reported that Stone had a garotte in his possession. How he proposed to use it is unclear.

5. There were over 100 MLAs plus a bevvy of journalists, Stormont staff, security staff and others present, yet Stone was only charged with the attempted murder of five people - Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness and three security staff. He did not get into the room where the MLAs were meeting (I think, he certainly didn't get near Adams and McGuinness). It is reported that the charge re Adams and McGuinness was because he shouted their names. Why then was he not charged with the attempted murder of Ian Paisley whose name he repeatedly shouted?

6. On the VTR seen by millions on the evening news police and security rused to get members of the press, especially camera crews away from Stone before going to the aid of their fellow officers who were clearly having trouble restraining him. Why?

The answers to these questions are important, especially clarification as to whethere the gun was real or imitation and the type of explosives in Stone's possession. Equally the question of How the hell he got in. Call me paranoid if you like.

by Johnny Jump Up - non-aligned Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:38

Jimmy, I was one of those 120000 people who marched from the Garden of Rememberance to Dame St on the 15th February of that year. Indeed, I was on the gig-rig. You do not have to lecture me as to why people have fallen away, and it's not for the reason you suggest.

The great fall-off of support for the anti-war (pacifist) movement was due, entirely, to the actions of the Ploughshares/CWM and Mary Kelly in Shannon. There had been great momentum building for some time prior to that. The people were speaking with their feet, and they would have continued, but for the fact that the Shannon incident pushed too far, far more than the general public were willing to go at that time.

You have never recovered from that, and that is why only 100 to 200 will ever assemble at the protests at Shannon Airport in future. You have few friends. Don't get me wrong, a great many people are still against the war in Iraq, but when the only people who are campaigning about it are anarchists, aggitators and SWP, nobody is going to want to be associated with that group of miscreants.

Radicalism has no part to play in a democracy.

by Johnny Jump Up - non-aligned Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:15

Stormont is not very secure at all, and that is, from what I understand, an intentional display of openness and access to all the citizens of Northern Ireland. I have protested there many years ago under the pillars outside the front-door where Michael Stone was arrested the other day. It seems surreal, considering the troubled history, but Stone just took advantage of a lax security that generally exists there. Nobody appeared to be bothered about it much before, be they from either side.

Anyway, would you not be complaining if there were too many police about?

The offence he was charged with was for possessing a "firearm, or immitation firearm". That is the terminology within the act and that how it was reported by the PSNI press-office. They did not specifiy whether it was real or immitation. Some media assumed that because the word "immitation" was mentioned, the gun must have been fake. This wasn't the case. It appears that it was a real gun. No intrigue, no conspiracy.

It has been clarified that there were nail-bombs in the bag.

I assume Stone intended to strangle somebody with the garotte. That's what one does with that instrument. All will be revealed at the court hearing, I would guess. It's not a conspiracy of silence if they don't announce every detail to the general public.

The charges were placed after questioning by the police. During a brief hearing before magistrate Bernadette Kelly, a detective sergeant, questioned by the defence solicitor, agreed that Stone had spoken freely during two police interviews. I guess that's when he said who he wanted to kill.

The man had bombs, or at least that's what he had said. And with a man like Michael Stone, I'd believe him in that instance. Media are notorious for wanting to get as close as possible to get a good shot, the security detail were clearing them away for their own safety. Your conspiracy theory is becoming tedious.

You are paranoid, or an eejit.

by Barry - 32 csm Mon Nov 27, 2006 13:01

Ill just point out it was binned and replaced with the St Andrews Treaty . So much for "the will of the people north and south..written in stone..international treaty binding on the British governemnt etc etc etc" . Load of oul nonsense . The GFA is extinct and nobody even noticed

by Joe Mon Nov 27, 2006 13:05

The great fall-off of support for the anti-war (pacifist) movement was due, entirely, to the actions of the Ploughshares/CWM and Mary Kelly in Shannon

Isn't this weird claim undermined by the fact that both Catholic Worker and Mary Kelly actions happened before the Feb 15 march in Dublin?

There is a dated chronology at http://struggle.ws/wsm/rbr/rbr7/antiwar.html

From this
January 29th 2003: Mary Kelly disarms US warplane.
February 1st 2003: Catholic Worker 5 disarm US warplane.
February 15th 2003: National march against war in Dublin (100,000)

As these are the facts your theory is wrong, indeed the facts suggest the reverse that it was the toothlessness of the mainstream anti-war movement that led to its decline as people realised that marching was having no impact on policy.

BTW are you posting as "Peaceful protester' on the Rossport thread because your methodology is very similar

by Derry Terry Mon Nov 27, 2006 23:10

Barry your efforts to involve Eirigi in your mix is quite pathetic.

All young republicans who support Sinn Fein have nothing but high regard for the Eirigi lads, though they fail to understand why felt compelled to leave the party at a time when the most intense period of political discussion ever in the party has just begun.

Their commitment to struggle for Irish independence and socialism is very much valued. Many young republicans hope that they return to the party because they are truly missed.

Eirigi and ARISE what is the difference in campaign models???

by Mick Mor Tue Nov 28, 2006 00:20

Intense period of political discussion in Sinn Fein! What planet are you living on Derry Terry? Every dog in the street knows that the decisions are made by Adams and McGuinness and that the grass roots must, at the cost of dismissal abide by these decisions without question.

If Sinn Fein are so democratic why don't they hold a vote at any future Ard Fheis by ballot box where the grass roots can vote on any decisions with out fear of watchful eyes.

Somehow I doubt it because Adams can only have his way through fear of being ousted.

Isn't that why long standing Republicans like Bernard Fox and Oliver Hughes have left Sinn Fein?

by Seamus Thu Nov 30, 2006 20:09 twtone at lycos dot com

Well done Joe for putting "Johnny jump up" in his place, notice the lack of reply from the smartarse now.

As for the GFA, well pointed out Barry that its been binned and re placed by another pile of fudge, the St Andrews agreement. What is it anyway with all these christian tags to political agreements? We have the "good friday" agreement, the SAINT Andrews agreement, whats next the Paddys day agreement or maybe the suffering Jaysus agreement?

Anyway, they can call them whatever they like, they all stink equally. Only 1 solution will ever be final and lasting, and we all know what that is 26+6 to be mathematical about it....

Seamus