Nazis Thwarted in UCC

by cork antifascist Tue Mar 04, 2008 22:34

Hardly a coincidence to see the floaters rising to the top less than a week a week away from the arrival of their mentor in UCC now, is it?? Disciples of free speech, surely. This should be a salutary lesson to the sophisticates in the Philosoph of what they are bringing down on their heads. Kudos to the students in UCC who helped remedy the situation today.

by Bebop Delux Tue Mar 04, 2008 23:04

Well done to UCC's Socialist Youth members for confronting the nazis. I hope the Philosophical Society and the heads of the university are informed of what happened today and finally understand that this is not a question of academic debate but involves real people who do want to build a fascist movement in Ireland.
The "free speech" brigade have gone very quiet!

by Free Thinker Wed Mar 05, 2008 14:43

Who the hell do the Socialist Youth think they are to tell these so called ''Fascists'' that they cannot speak? If they were spreading communist doctrine would they be confronted by the the Socialist Youth?

I virulently oppose Fascism and Communism equally and I give them moral equivalence. Is anyone who revises WW2 history to be labeled a Nazi? Those who believe in Freedom for everyone not just those they like or the 'Free Speech Brigade' as one imbecile called them have not and will never go silent.

As much as I disagree with David Irving and those so called ''Fascists''at UCC it's their right to have a differing view on history to that of the mainstream and to be allowed to talk openly about it. If you disagree with them challenge their ideas or ignore them. David Irving's visit to UCC has gotten more publicity and coverage because of the moronic ''Anti-Fascist'' Fascists who instead of debating him or ignoring him they try to suppress him only giving him more credence.

This is not even a debate on the Holocaust but on Free Speech and as the left wing Fascist thugs and robot radicals have shown already the sheep will keep the sheep in line.

by Fintan Lane - ISN Wed Mar 05, 2008 14:47

Well done to Socialist Youth and UCC students for confronting Wallace and driving him off campus. Good stuff.

Let's hope there's a big, big turnout for the demo against Holocaust-denier Irving when he arrives. Some direct action wouldn't go astray.

by Mike - Judean Popular Peoples Front Wed Mar 05, 2008 19:59

"Who the hell do the Socialist Youth think they are to tell these so called ''Fascists'' that they cannot speak? "

Nothing so-called about it. One of them actually acknowledges the fact that he is (in his own words) a "mild fascist".

Preaching about "free speech" is all well and fine but should it even extend to those who if they had their way would resort to "the ultimate form of censorship" against their opponents ?

by Spinning Quickly Wed Mar 05, 2008 21:20

First of all, David Irving is a notorious liar and pseudohistorian who has been in bed with the far right for decades. Secondly, David Noone is less notorious, but no less of a liar. I despise both of them and what they stand for. They are neo-Nazis who want to

Holocaust deniers, however, don't just peddle lies - the more sophisticated ones (e.g. Irving and Noone) like to go through a routine where they get invited to speak at a university. If the visit is cancelled, Irving et al go through a "poor me, I'm being censored" routine, thus avoiding the issue of their lies. As a result, the deniers get some publicity while avoiding awkward questions about their lies.

How to avoid this? Learn about the Holocaust - follow the link in this article for a good site. Find sites deniers frequent - post answers pointing out lies and half-truths. If you're censored, now you can point out that they're censoring you.

If someone does invite a denier, print out some of the essays from the site and and them to audience members. Asking deniers questions that expose them as liars is tricky, as some of them have spoken at many meetings and try to keep the discussion (such as it is) onto matters that can't be discussed in half-an-hour - they're tricky customers and will try to confuse the audience rather than enter into honest debate.

by Free Thinker Wed Mar 05, 2008 21:27

Yes Free Speech should be allowed for those who would suppress free speech if they were in power because these people cannot be defeated by emulation.

When Universities start banning speakers how long will it be before they start burning their works?

When Free Speech is stifled violence and radicalization becomes more attractive that may be one of the factors why there is such a huge number of Extremists in Saudi Arabia and Egypt and other countries where Free Speech is so brutally and widely suppressed.

by neptoid Wed Mar 05, 2008 22:16

Article 19. Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Debate is one of the foundations of a healthy society, and freedom of expression is fundamental to stimulating debate. Sometimes this means having to listen to opinions, we don't agree with, or allegations that may be false. We hope that with rational and logical discussion the truth becomes apparent.
By preventing Irvine from speaking, we would be ourselves become censors. If you have a problem with Fascism, by all means protest against Facism, but don't deny somebody their rights, that's what Fascists do.

by Anti-fascist.. Wed Mar 05, 2008 23:55

Neptoid, the fucking UN does not support or uphold free speech or human rights. The war in Afghanistan is a UN sanctioned war! The first Gulf War was a UN sanctioned war, so was the Korean War. The UN is a tool, a flag of convenience for US Imperialism that tramples on the rights of people all over the globe.

by Albatrot - Leon Trotsky's Flying Circus Thu Mar 06, 2008 09:37

This is not a free speech issue. They are more than welcom to talk about their wacky theories down the pub, in work or on the internet. However inviting them to a reputable institution and giving them a platform to spread their ideas to a large crowd distribute pamphlets and recruit to their hate organisations.

by iosaf Thu Mar 06, 2008 14:48

Long before he did so, he was reported by "the Daily Mail" as describing himself as a "mild fascist" for publically supporting Apartheid in the then states of Rhodesia & South Africa.

UCC is private propetry. It has now long past the stage that decent & civilised people demanded the collective owners of UCC ( the fellows & staff) to ensure the convicted hate criminal David Irving is not allowed on the property. It is also appropriate for the minister of Justice to ensure the convicted hate criminal Irving is not allowed in the republic of Ireland. His last public appearance as opposed to student debating appearance saw him deny the Holocaust in Hungary, a state which saw 440,000 of it citizens (mostly jews) deported to camps (principally Auschwitz) a number of people who included the last director of the National Symphony Orchestra of Ireland.

Where is the chair of history at Cork?
Where is the President of the University?
Where is the decency to point out that freedom of hate speech is not freedom of speech. Since UCC Debating society gave the NAZI's oxygen, for it is has been proven by both Austrian Supreme Court and British High Court that Irving is a neoNAZI & instrumental in their propaganda & organisation - we see internet traffic to hate sites increase, we see hate attacks against migrants, & now we see Irish neo-nazi's attempt to organise on campus.

In that same time I have compiled a list of 7 individuals who are available to speak at student debates on the theme of "freedom of speech". They vary from Shahla Sherkat author, directing editor & founder of "Zanan" (="women") the editor of the http://www.indymedia.ie/article/85991 who herself was imprisoned in Ian for speaking in Europe. Or David Morris and Helen Steel who were denied legal aid & bankrupted in their battle against McDonalds by the British legal system a decision which was overturned by the European court in 2005 http://www.indymedia.ie/article/68631

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by cropbeye Thu Mar 06, 2008 19:31 Cork CIty (Northside)

Actually I believe the issue is nothing at all to do with free speech.

Rather it is a buch of young idiots in the Literary & Debating Society

showing off how sexy and controversial that they can be maximising

the chance of them being mentioned in the media.

by Neptoid Thu Mar 06, 2008 21:54

Let him speak, if you have an argument with him then field it during the debate. The UN may no longer support its own declaration, but this is no reason why we should not still aspire to its ideals. Who are we to have the moral judgement as to who should be allowed to speak and who should be silenced. If you prevent one idea you dislike from being silenced, what stops you from going out to suppress another idea?

by Jolly Red Giant - Socialist Party/CWI Thu Mar 06, 2008 23:49

the Socialist Party does not support the killing of little babies but does support the right of women to have control over their own fertility.

And no the Socialist Party never has supported Stalin, the regime he led and Trotskyists comprised a significant number of the people his regime murdered.

by Staunton, M.A Fri Mar 07, 2008 23:56

Irving is an approver of the allied invasions and the UN( even those on the far-left have disagreed with the allied response and the UN in general) and the Enlightment ideals of human rights. By default he is not even right-wing.

Nevertheless, one thing as always begs the question; does anyone care if a far-left revionist historian questioning Stalin's holocaust of millions of christians airs his views? No, they don't give an inherant fuck. Does anti-fa care? Hardly. Do I care? No, because I respects an individuals right to air his opinion on such a difficult craft as that of history. But painfully, as per usual, we have anti-fa boneheads threating violence against the most basic of human freedoms.

by Spinning Quickly Thu Mar 13, 2008 20:10

Ironically, the most damage to Irvings reputation was done by Irving himself, when he sued Professor Deborah Lipstadt - Irving exposed himself as the neo-nazi he is not to mention showing how hypocritical he is about free speech: Irving has over the years used phrases like "the traditional enemies of free speech" (Irving trying to be antisemitic without using more obvious language) yet when it came to Professor Lipstadt, Irving felt she had no right to free speech.

by Sirius Doyle - Socialist Youth Fri Mar 14, 2008 18:44

Update on Neo-Nazi organisers in Cork
New information regarding Cork fascists
Just an update on a story posted here a few weeks back. Below is a recent picture of fascist organiser/illiterate conspiracy theorist David Noone, a.k.a Brian Wallace. We don't know the identity of the man next to him, but both were attempting (without much in the way of skill) to recruit in UCC in the run up to the debate where David Irving was expected to speak. They have also been putting up racist 'Keep Ireland White' stickers in the city centre and may be trying to organise. We urge people to keep an eye out for these men or their racist stickers.

Wallace and Lackey at Limerick a few weeks back

by cropbeye Thu Mar 20, 2008 19:08 Norrie land

Is the guy on the left the youth wing?

I noticed some of the stickers up about the place specifically

mentioned White Yoof!

by murf - SP Sat Mar 21, 2009 00:05

His name is Robert. He is a pretty sad, verge-of-homelessness, psychologically fragile sort - easily led, in other words. I believe he initially became involved with Wallace/Noone when there was funding from some far-right American group. He may be responsible for the recent holocaust/racist posters and stickers around the mardyke and north mall - he lives in the area