CIA Torture Plane back at Shannon

by N.Y.B. Mon Mar 17, 2008 19:08

You guys are dumb, I meant DUUUUUMBBBBB !! N775ST is by no way can be associated neither with CIA nor FBI or KGB, but its definitely can be related to N.Y.B. flights. For your info and safety, keep in mind that US-registered acft don't have to be a CIA aircraft and it don't have to be based in the United States. Use google and save your stamina for smth else.

N.Y.B.

by Coilín Thu Mar 06, 2008 19:03

Gumbo, unfortunately the US forces in Afghanistan and Iraq are fighting two wars they can't win.

General Shinseki said that it would take half a million troops to successfully occupy Iraq, and an even greater number may now apply. Things have been a bit quieter in Iraq lately, but that is probably for various strategic reasons among the various Iraqi resistance groups, e.g. because they are forging new alliances and making strategic plans to launch a series of assaults in October-November, so as to create maximum embarrassment around the time of the US presidential elections.

The Sunnis in Anbar didn't need the help of foreign US fighters to drive foreign Al-Qaeda fighters out. They did it mostly on their own and Petraeus helped mostly by getting out of their way. The Iraqis will eventually drive all foreign fighters out, including both Al-Qaeda and US troops.

Also, please remember that the Afghans defeated the British empire in two or three wars, and also defeated the Soviet Union. Who's next?

Meanwhile, there is plenty to say that the occupying forces are making matters more dangerous for American citizens back home:
1. By engaging in bombing raids on villages and other civilian targets, American forces promote the already widespread perception that Americans are cowardly bullies, who kill innocent people from the safety of their aircraft. This is a good way to make enemies. (Even if you disagree with the perception.)
2. The occupying forces are providing the best imaginable conditions for local resistance movements in the Middle East and Central Asia to train on terrain where they have all the advantages. What better experience than to fight the most powerful army in the history of the world on terrain where that army is desperately overstretched and where the local fighters are on home turf, speak local languages, etc.?
3. Meanwhile, terrorist groups in other parts of the world are free to make their plans. Even if there were a million US troops in Iraq, that wouldn't do anything to stop an Al-Qaeda cell in Mexico or Montreal or Montana from making plans.

Your economy is going into a recession, your children and grandchildren will have to pick up the tab for years to come, and still you think you should go on wasting billions of dollars in fighting wars you can never win?

If you want to make your country safe, you should urge your government to stop the bombings, in fact get right out of countries where you are seen as brutal occupiers. (Whether you agree with that perception or not!) If you think your government should spend money on making friends overseas, then ask to meet your political leaders and urge them to devise a plan to give every child in the whole world clean water. Such a project would cost nine billion dollars a year, to make friends everywhere, instead of wasting billions of dollars making new enemies.

Keep well,
Coilín.

by Gumbo Thu Mar 06, 2008 16:46

If the Americans had not toppled the Taliban in 2001 or toppled Saddam Hussein in 2003 both regimes would likely still be in power wouldn't they?

Afghanistan was and remains a base for Islamic extremists terrorists and the Taliban.
Iraq was ruled by a genocidal state terrorist dictator but now it has a very fragile democracy and terrorists bent on establishing a Taliban style government if they force America to leave.

If Western military forces withdraw from Afghanistan it will revert to Taliban rule.
If Western forces withdraw from Iraq before its democratic government can suppress Al-Qaeda and other extremist religious terrorists then the future for Iraq will be an Islamic theocracy.

Both countries would be come bases for terrorist training - Iraqi oil provide billions in funds - destablising the Middle East and the rest of the world.

What other solutions can there be except military action to stop these violent extremists?

American troops were not in Afghanistan or Iraq in 2001 yet the American people came under attack.

France were not involved in Algeria during the 1990's yet terrorists hijacked an Air France jet airliner which they hope to crash into the Eiffel Tower before they killed by Special Forces.

by Edward Horgan Thu Mar 06, 2008 15:09

The EU constitution now renamed as the so-called Lisbon Treaty, is due to go to referendum in Ireland shortly.
Today we had the spectacle of Minister Dick Roche declaring that this treaty would copperfasten Irish neutrality by ensuring that the Irish Government could not engage in "common defence" without first going to the "people". This of course is false, but many Irish people choose to believe it, and to believe that Irish neutrality still exists.
The reality is far from protecting Ireland against any immaginary or real risks to Irish common defence, the Irish Government has engaged in common OFFENSIVE MILITARY operations against the peoples of Iraq and Afghanistan, by inviting and facilitating the US military use of Shannon airport for these unlawful wars.

This issue must become the critical issue in the forthcomming referendum debate and in election.
Ireland, through the actions of the Irish Government has been complicit in the deaths of over 1,000,000 people in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The term Ireland includes you and me, if we are Irish citizens.

You and I are complicit in the killing of over 1,000,000 people

It is not enough to should "not in our name" we must do somehing to prevent these crimes against humanity being committed and facilitated on, through and over Irish territory.

by Roger Cole - Peace & Neutrality Alliance Thu Mar 06, 2008 14:41 pana at eircom dot net 17 Castle Street, Dalkey

The reason why the mainstream media do not cover the use of Shannon Airport by the US is because they support this Imperialist war and because they support Shannon's use by US torture planes. PANA commissioned Landsdowne Market Research last year on the people's attitude to the use of Shannon in the war and it showed the vast majority of the Irish people were opposed to it. It is not the function of the mainstream media to tell the truth. Their function is to lie and distorte the truth to serve the interests of the political elite and to fair to them, they do a very good job of it.
I would again like to congratulate Ed and Conor on their vigil.
Since 1996 PANA has campaigned against the integration of this state into the US/EU/NATO war machine of which the use of Shannon airport by the US is only one example. Another is the proposed Lisbon treaty which intgrates us even deeper into the war machine. All those who oppose the war in Iraq should vote no, as a no to Lisbon is also a No to the use of Shannon Airport in the US/NATO Imperialist war in Iraq.

by Millie Thu Mar 06, 2008 14:34

'Perplexed' wants to know if anyone is going to try and breech the security around the CIA plane!

'Perplexed' seeks to discourage those tracking the CIA plane by stating categorically there is no 'public interest' in tracking the plane!

There is in fact a massive international public interest in tracking torture flights like this. The CIA and their associates in Irelands Military and Police would prefer we stop noticing such planes.

Irelands military has had a long time close working relationship with the CIA. The Langley boys and girls are well looked after by 'our guys' when they touch down.

Please guys, stop noticing their planes! They may be carrying cocaine you know. Do you think all the cocaine that fuels our government and big business comes throught Brussels and diplomatic bags?

by lulu Thu Mar 06, 2008 08:28

It's good to know that someone's aware of the Irish complicity in rendition & torture, & has the guts to bring our attention to it. Best wishes to Conor & Ed.

by Seán Ryan Wed Mar 05, 2008 18:36

I reckon perplexed is truly perplexed. Zero mainstream media interest is spin. There has been lots of and there is lots of mainstream media interest. This interest neither goes far enough nor indeed does it try hard enough, but to suggest that it doesn't exist is misleading at best. Furthermore, even if there were a complete blackout regarding the mainstream media's examination of the Irish war effort, this would in no way suppose or indeed prove that there was no public interest in the topic. I reckon perplexed should increase his or her threshold for what constitutes a proof of something regarding the formation of opinions.

Taking down the numbers of these planes is incredibly useful for keeping track of these planes and indeed the European condemnation of the facilitation of rendition flight facilitation probably would not have occurred (or at least would not have occurred when it did) had it not been for decent human beings deciding to give of themselves and log these flights. This came up in the recent debate on rendition and it wasn't denied: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/85567

Regarding the assurances that Bertie and others have accepted. These assurances have no legal basis and indeed have no legal ramifications regarding either the truthfulness or falsity of these assurances. On the other hand there are plenty of legal conditions attached to Ireland's obligation to ensure (as opposed to assure) that we do not facilitate torture.

The point I'm making here is that Ireland has violated both international law and universal morality. We cannot take this back, it's water under the bridge, unfortunately. This is not even the beginnings of a reason to either give up or lose hope. If something is worth striving for, then lacking an immediate success should put the worthiness of the goal into perspective and the fight should continue. The alternative is to accept that Ireland has no morality and its values are for sale.

With regard to perplexed suggesting that some direct action might be better than recording numbers. That might indeed be true. But to suggest it's one or the other is typical of the whole post by perplexed. Why can it not be both? What has either got to do with the other?

Regarding the ease at which the US could find another host should we bring to an end their period of parasitic exploits - yup it probably would be easy to transfer the whole operation elsewhere. I fail to see how this constitutes an argument that shows that we should continue to be a part of this ugly crime. If some other host doesn't mind being a pariah and being seen as one that's their business - I'll have an opinion on it of course but it will not have the same effect on me that it has now. Right now because of the actions of a few within my country, I'm a part of the problem - true, it's guilt by association but in this case, because it's my nation, I am liable, we're all collectively responsible. As Ciaron O'Reilly often points out: The US using Ireland as a pitstop on its geoncidal journeys is nothing more than a dog marking its territory.

I don't take being pissed on lightly. I'm even less enamored to being party to the crime of genocide. So give up? Yeah right!

Not only does perplexed need to start thinking outside the box, he or she needs to climb out of it.

Well done again Conor and Ed.

by Perplexed Wed Mar 05, 2008 17:43

Are you fellas going to try and stop the plane from taking off?
Are ye going to try and rescue the detainee on board?
There is zero mainstream media interest in what's going on down in Shannon which basically translates into zero public interest in it either.
Unless you going to actually do something to physically stop the rendition from happening I don't know what purpose recording the numbers is going to do.
Quite frankly the US embassy don't give a flying flute how many protests happen outside the railing or how many angry letters or petitions they get sent in the post.
Whenever this is raised with the Taoiseach he always replies that he asked the US authorities if the planes were carrying detainees and they said "no" so there Bertie says no planes with detainees.
Nobody gives a thinkers curse what Ireland has to say anyway - even if the US were forced to move from Shannon - they would simply refuel somewhere else.

by DW Wed Mar 05, 2008 16:16

There's reference to this plane (in German) on this site:

http://www.armenien.am/thread.php?threadid=7952

You can translate the text on babelfish: http://babelfish.altavista.com/

by Edward Wed Mar 05, 2008 14:28

Just a small correction on the date above.
N475LC departed 'KFAY' FAYETTEVILLE REGIONAL/GRANNIS FIELD, FAYETTEVILLE NC on 5 March 08 and arrived at 'EINN' SHANNON AIRPORT, IRELAND at 0115 am on the morning of 6 Mar 08.

by Edward Horgan Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:46

If anyone knows anything about the recent and past movements of US executive jet N775ST, and any connections it might have with the CIA please let us know. It may be owned or registered to the Wells Fargo Bank but there have been associations between this bank and other CIA rendition planes in the past.
So far it has no known associations with Shannon airport, but it may have been connected with other nefarious activities globally.