People of Sligo must speak up in protest against Racecourse plan (PEOPLE FIRST MEETING)

by Pete Thu Apr 03, 2008 23:19

I don't think Des Skeffington will run again he has left Sinn Fein l can't see him running as an independant . !

by phil Thu Apr 03, 2008 23:16

The ex Sinn Fein member is Jerry Casey he lives in Maugherboy . !

by Jimmy Battle Thu Apr 03, 2008 22:48

Who are you referring to as the ex-Sinn Fein member? Is it Des Skeffington?

by Gino Thu Apr 03, 2008 22:41

Sean himself has expressed his wish not to run for the corporation again but to just run for the county council. Chris knows he wont retain the East Ward seat and may be coaxed into running in the west ward but even that is not guaranteed. What is guaranteed is that he wont be running in the East Ward next time if indeed he does decide to run anywhere.

You are right about Cawley and Scanlon. No contest.

by Phil Thu Apr 03, 2008 22:34

I have to agree with Ned , l think Veronica would lose out to Brian if he ran in the North Ward there is definetly not a enough business and self employed people in the North Ward.
As for the Mc Manus'es l don't think have anything to worry about where their Ex member of Sinn Fein is involved l can't see him running for the locals also what makes people think that Sean won't be running for the West Ward also that his son Chris will run in the West Ward why would he change Ward's ?

by Con Thu Apr 03, 2008 22:29

MickC, I didn't use the word opportunist to describe Bree. If anything he has been a calculating realist who after a youthful involvement in the CYM (following his exit from the L of M) realised that his ideals were not shared by the electorate. He identified local housing and other nuts-and-bolts issues of immediate concern to his potential constituents and began agitating on them. Such issues, and not convoluted discourses about marxian revolution and hegelian dialectics, soon won him a deserved seat on Sligo corpo. He cleverly built up his profile over the years and was persuaded, strangely in my view, to join the Labour ticket for his one and only election to the Dail. I never voted for him, BTW. I haven't been a secret SWP sleeper neither.
A lot of things will and have been said about Bree, but without his focused intellect public life in Sligo would have been a total slough of despond.

by Vlad etc etc Thu Apr 03, 2008 20:21

Ned, cake Scanlon wont lose McGarry his seat though I agree with you it would be good fun alright. Throw in the MacManus' fighting with their former comrade and the West Ward could be an exciting and very entertaining place come election time

by ned green Thu Apr 03, 2008 20:09

Cake is on a roll,it doesnt matter which ward he runs in ,he will undoubtly do damage to Labour.If he chooses the North Ward the victim is obviously Veronicas seat, as their are not enough self employed business people or Chamber members living in her area to guarentee her seat,however what the electorate would really relish is a head to head in the West Ward between himself and Wee Jimmy,this would undoubtly be most entertaining as good as Duffys Circus if not better.

by Mickc Thu Apr 03, 2008 19:44

Con and Cain are typical of those from the lunatic left, I suspect they are members of the SWP, a party that has never had anybody elected in this country and it will remain like that!

by cokney boy Thu Apr 03, 2008 18:31

If Veronica Cawleys , seat is under threat in the North Ward who do you think will take it . ?

by Cain Thu Apr 03, 2008 08:04

“Purity doesn't win votes in the long term.”

Another admission that Bree is not a principled Socialist and ergo a hypocrite.

"People in Ireland sometimes vote in a strong independent, occasionally a leftist like Bree in Sligo."

Bree was never a strong Independent. He was elected to the Dail as a Labour candidate. Labour at the time wooed the middle-classes under the guile of Dick Spring who moved the whole party sufficiently to the right so as to make them appealing to disillusioned FG and FF voters. Bree, ever the opportunist took advantage of this and got himself elected, that may in some way be an endictment of his political savvy but at the time only an idiot could not have identified the mood in the country or that the country was ripe for change. The people of Sligo elected Bree under the impression that he would be a strong Left wing voice in a Left wing party, It didn’t take them long to discover what a mistake that was. He was never elected to the Dail again and this despite his own clientelism, goombeenism and repositioning to the right in attempt for broader appeal (all at the expense of the working class vote that he had built his political career on)

“MickC above makes some telling comments about Bree's countercurrent stances on a range of issues which middle ireland certainly wouldn't stand for at the time.”

No he doesn’t. He simply regurgitates information found on Brees own website and is attempting to pass it off as considered opinion. Remember, according to Bree he’s a Socialist, he has to at least appear to validate that claim from time to time. But as I said before, it was his stint in the Dail that defined him politically and he ain’t no Socialist in that regard.

"lambasted... from the pulpit"

You have got to be joking now.

“it was the general political dopeyness of an urban-rural electorate still entrenched in a post-civil war mindset and embedded in clientalist politics engendered by the multiseat constituency system.”

This is exactly the attitude Bree has of the electorate and still has. In fact he counts on it. It allows him to manoeuvre on the political spectrum undetected to some degree. Only committed politicos/activists/leftists/socialists really have Brees number and have had for quite a while. As most of those reside east of the Shannon it allows Bree sleep easier at night.

“By talking about contraception and later the prolife amendment Bree was actually appealing to the instincts of the gliberal middle class professionals with third level degrees who gravitate to the anticlericalism of the newly educated more than to socialism as an ideology”

That is rubbish and displays a dim understanding of the ‘educated classes’ at the time. Student activism in Ireland was very much a marginal or fringe activity. Campuses where dominated by ruralites who would have retained their Catholic ethos and would have been deeply conservative in their political views. The same is the case for those ‘middle class professionals’ especially in rural towns like Sligo. They would have leaned towards FG, would have been conservative, anti divorce, vehemently anti-choice and quite mediocre on contraception (it was available to them).
They certainly would not gravitate towards Bree or any of his soundings.

No, Brees vote has always come predominately from the working class. He cultivated this vote by posturing to their sensitivities, by fostering a ‘them and us’ generalisation and rooting his chances on being identified with their struggles and pretending to campaign to better their lot.

“His chances of election to the Dail depended on scooping that kind of middle class urban vote”

His election to the Dail depended entirely on the Spring tide. This is the only accepted truth on his election and anything else is an attempt at revisionism. He tried to capiltlaise on that once elected by demonstrating to the middle/right disenchanted FF’s/FG’s that swelled that tide, that he was a safe pair of hands.
That is what exposed him and that is what irreparably damaged him in Sligo/Leitrim. As a local parish-pumper he was acceptable, beyond that he was a fraud.

“Bree's carefully cultivated vote base began to erode when SF, after the 1981 hunger strikes, began to mobilise for local and general elections in the republic.”

He stabbed Joe McDonnell in the back and cost him a seat in the Dail. His ‘base’ didn’t take too kindly to that and SF easily filled the void. Bree has no-one to blame but himself.

“The gliberal middle classes never warmed to Bree's support for the H-Block hunger strikers”

Well then they should have loved him when he ran against a H-Block candidate in ’81 and cost him his chance of a seat.

“or for his gestures like commemorating a republican martyr of the Spanish civil war”

An irrelevant gesture in the mindset of the middle-classes. It may have offended the odd Blueshirt but within the sphere is Irish politics it means nothing and certainly wouldn't put anybody off voting for him

“I think the Labour Party in Sligo has lost out to Sinn Fein.”

This is because of Bree and Bree alone.

“I'd say that Bree's dominant and clever personality has been divisive and distracted old stalwarts from grassroots organisation.”

That’s a roundabout way of saying that the Labour party at the time was stupid and it was Bree and Bree alone that injected the momentum to get a Labour candidate elected to the Dail. As has been explained above that it nonsense.

by martin Thu Apr 03, 2008 05:57

Does anybody know who claimed the most expenses on Sligo County Council and Corporation in the last twelve months.I would also like to know who availed of `Junkets`, where did they go,and how much it cost the taxpayer.?

by Con Thu Apr 03, 2008 01:42

Purity doesn't win votes in the long term. People in Ireland sometimes vote in a strong independent, occasionally a leftist like Bree in Sligo, Treacy down in Tipp, Joe Higgins in Dublin or somebody agitating over a local hospital, or, the classic example, Noel Browne and TB eradication. They don't endorse the ideology of these far leftward individuals, it's mostly a protest at the predominant FF-FG mediocrity and gombeenery.

MickC above makes some telling comments about Bree's countercurrent stances on a range of issues which middle ireland certainly wouldn't stand for at the time. He says: "Bing (sic) lambasted in the 60s and 70s from the pulpit and later pushing a liberal agenda whether it was divorce, abortion, contraception was hardly the opportunistic road to take for anyone with any hope of getting elected in a rural constituency?" Quite so, although "lambasted... from the pulpit" wasn't the real problem - it was the general political dopeyness of an urban-rural electorate still entrenched in a post-civil war mindset and embedded in clientalist politics engendered by the multiseat constituency system. By talking about contraception and later the prolife amendment Bree was actually appealing to the instincts of the gliberal middle class professionals with third level degrees who gravitate to the anticlericalism of the newly educated more than to socialism as an ideology. His chances of election to the Dail depended on scooping that kind of middle class urban vote plus the votes of hungry republicans in the countryside plus the protest votes that can sometimes be garnered when disenchantment with FF sets in among the traditional voters. Bree's carefully cultivated vote base began to erode when SF, after the 1981 hunger strikes, began to mobilise for local and general elections in the republic. The gliberal middle classes never warmed to Bree's support for the H-Block hunger strikers or for his gestures like commemorating a republican martyr of the Spanish civil war; but they loved to hear him tweak the mediocre clergy.

I think the Labour Party in Sligo has lost out to Sinn Fein. I'd say that Bree's dominant and clever personality has been divisive and distracted old stalwarts from grassroots organisation. It's a pity to see it happen in what is officially a city since the 1600s. To me it feels more like a motley collection of three or four villages, where parish pumpery predominates and mediocrity feeds on itself.

by Wise Guy Wed Apr 02, 2008 22:57

Oh and SF wont be running their last time out candidate in Sligo/Drumcliffe and full time paid constituency (sligo/nt leitrim) organiser Des Skeffington.

He has resigned from that job and from SF so more troubles for SF in that area of north sligo

by Wise Guy Wed Apr 02, 2008 22:53

If SF dont run sean mac manus in the borough council election as seems likely they could end up with just one councillor on the new council. Arthur Gibbons.

McGarry much as I hate the guy will retain his seat, but Cawleys seat in the north ward could possibly be under threat but I personally believe she will retain it but with a lower vote

Bree will retain his seat. Cummins will win his seat back. Jim Sullivan will probably run again but fail to win again. The ex SF guy will run but not win a seat though will damage the SF vote to some degree, depends which mac manus is running. So too with Cake who will not win but will put in a better perfornmance and damage the labour vote to some degree

by Mickc Wed Apr 02, 2008 21:30

I really can’t see what is opportunistic about continuing to push a left agenda, particularly in Ireland. Even the likes of Joe Higgins has had his wings clipped . If Brees opportunistic what does that make to rest of the politicians in this country?

Bing lambasted in the 60s and 70s from the pulpit and later pushing a liberal agenda whether it was divorce, abortion, contraception was hardly the opportunistic road to take for anyone with any hope of getting elected in a rural constituency? Challenging the provos during the hunger strikes by standing for the GE was again not very opportunistic at the time and probably cost him votes in the long run. Opposing development in Sligo town when investment was scarce and continually voting for traveller housing, as well as local authority housing was not a popular move. Likewise his welcoming of asylum seekers to Hope House, the only councillors to do so was not in anyway opportunistic. Supporting the anti-Shell camping in Rossport is a very sensitive issue in the west and any opportunist would have either said noting or demonised the protesters like the majority have done including the Labour Party. His Anti-war, including strong opposition to the American administration since the 1960s is not a popular move for a count with a strong link to the States, the recent boycott of Mayor Bloomberg at a reception in the Town Hall and the public protest in Ballymote obviously embarrassed and annoyed many constituents who figured this could damage Sligo’s image in the US and affect future investment. His continued close alliance with Cuba and the communist party this has to be one of the least opportunistic moves any successful politician could make.

Some of the moves the Bree has done that are criticised above are more pragmatic than opportunistic, he’d still be battling away on a loud speakers from the outside like many on the far-left if didn’t play the game a bit, and Sligo would be a duller place without him I suppose.

I have to agree, joining the Labour Party and agreeing to form a government with FF was a big mistake.

By the way I’d like to agree with the comments about Arthur Gibbons above, SF are lucky to have him, genuine and principled person.

by Cain Wed Apr 02, 2008 09:45

“Well Cain, these last few comments about Veronica, Gibbons, Cake and others proves my point that leftwing ideologising doesn't win votes in local or national elections. It's all about personalities and parish pump "issues" as far as the voters are concerned”

Not quite sure what relevance that is to Bree unless of course you are admitting that he is not a principled socialist and pragmatically bends in whatever direction the populist wind is blowing.

If that is your assertion then I am in agreement with you. The problem is that you might want to run that conclusion past Bree who would vehemently disagree with you. He has made a career of political leftist posturing and trades under the banner of absolute socialism. His own website screams the title.

Your last post is more an attack on him than on my take of what Bree represents. I consider him a hypocrite for preaching high ideals and pretending to be principled when in fact he will betray what he claims is his political core to maximize votes. (He has a well documented History of it)

But in all this you have overlooked that Bree was indeed elected to the Dail through his leftist idealising and promises of change. He was exposed as a fraud and routed at the next election, his vote has been in decline ever since.

In this context his continuing attempts to stand apart from the crowd in Sligo on the grounds of Socialist idealism should be exposed as the careerist opportunism it is.

by Vlad etc etc Tue Apr 01, 2008 23:49

Aside from the honourable exceptions of Gibbons and Bree, the record of Sligo Councillors on traveller halting sites is appalling

by Con Tue Apr 01, 2008 23:40

Well Cain, these last few comments about Veronica, Gibbons, Cake and others proves my point that leftwing ideologising doesn't win votes in local or national elections. It's all about personalities and parish pump "issues" as far as the voters are concerned. What Trotsky stated in 1919 or Lenin wrote in 1921 or Marx asserted in the 18th Brumaire might as well be medieval discussion about angels on needlepoints as far as vote catching is concerned.

So Veronica Cawley voted against council housing in the Rathbraughan estate? Nimby is a more potent feeling than socialism. What voting record have the left councillors on dedicated camping sites for itinerants? More Nimby I suppose.

by Vlad etc etc Tue Apr 01, 2008 23:06

Cummins will run again and may in fact win that seat. MacManus wont run there again if he runs at all. He knows he is going to lose that seat and instead may run in his fathers place in the West Ward.

by Steven Sligo Tue Apr 01, 2008 23:03

I heard Tommy Cummins is running again in the East Ward l don't think he has much of a chance either l don't think he will do any harm to any of the sitting councillors unless Chris Mc Manus .

I don't think that Cake has much chance he will do wee Jimmy
some harm though if he runs in the west ward if his poor vote in the General Election was anything to go by . !

by John Gaffney Tue Apr 01, 2008 22:56

You are incorrect Johnny. Veronica didnt vote for corpo housing (not for the first time). She opposed them at Rathbraughan. Cllr Gibbons was the only north ward cllr that voted for them.

by Vlad the Impaler Tue Apr 01, 2008 22:43

Cake would be foolish to run in the west ward and sligo/strandhill. He hasnt a hope in either.

To be honest I dont think he has in the north ward and drumcliffe ward either but if there is any hope thats where it is.

More interesting will be the Sinn Fein line up in the locals.

by Johnny Tue Apr 01, 2008 22:43

To the best of my knowledge Veronica is the only councilor in the north ward who voted in favour of corpo houses being built in the Rathbraughan area of town so where is Ned Green coming from . ! On this issue alone is the reason l would support Veronica Cawley she does not beleive in apartide which is more than what can be said for the rest of the North Ward Councillors . !

by ned green Tue Apr 01, 2008 22:00

I hear that Cake is considering his options for the locals,flushed with his outstanding preformance in the general election,he,s so anxious for a rematch with Wee Jimmy that hes considering running in the west ward for a corpo seat, and Sligo/Strandhill in the council. This Im sure will come as a hugh releif to Veronica,she who does not like corpo housing in her ward.

by Francis Mon Mar 31, 2008 17:44

I totally agree with Pat and Ronan Cllr Arthur Gibbons is the only socialist well infact the only true socialist cllr on Sligo borough council (Fatboy and his Dad ) have practically been unheard of since they were last elected in 2004 . I have heard Gibbons countless times in local media ie : paper's , local radio. !
He is the most vocal of the 3 SF Councillors in Sligo also maybe the other 2 SF Cllr's could take a leaf out of his book . ??

by Ronan Mon Mar 31, 2008 17:19

Pat, you are probably right about Gibbons. He is definitely the most left wing on the council anyway. He puts the other two sf cllrs (Fatboy and his dad) on it to shame.

by Pat Mon Mar 31, 2008 17:01

I think the only socialist on Sligo borough council has to be Arthur Gibbons he has never availed of Junkets and puts all the junket money back into his ward he is the only Counciloor l know that does this . ! He also supports meetings in all areas of the town like Save the cancer meetings , save the fairgreen also the Sligo racecourse meetings. !! I think Labour has totally lost its direction in Sligo has done over the last couple of years they are more for the business people of the town and not the ordinary working class . ! Its a shame to see the way Labour has gone in Sligo. !!

by Cain Mon Mar 31, 2008 14:20

“I am no acolyte of Bree”

You are an acolyte of Bree and follow that same tired formulaic construct of singing his praises whilst distancing yourself with comments such as the one quoted almost as an after thought.

The answer to most of the questions posed in your first paragraph is Publicity. He found a niche on the Left and worked hard to appear consistent and appropriate within that niche. He wrapped himself in the Starry Plough and traded on a platform of principle and unreconstructed Larkinsim and Connollyism. He has made a career of shouting from the shadows of Great men.
That was fine while he languished in relative obscurity and outside the corridors of power. As soon as he was elected to a position with meaningful authority all his postulation and indignation toward the right vanished. He cosied up to the right-wingers in Leinster house and voted with them far more than he did against them. This is all a matter of record and something Bree cannot eradicate despite his bellicose.

What Bree did in the 60’s, 70’s or 80’s is irrelevant. It was his actions as a TD in the Dail that has defined him politically. It is here where he showed his positioning on the left as a matter of careerism as illustrated by his betrayal on more than one occasion of the very principles he had bellowed for 20 years. The tag of sell-out has never gone away after that and probably never will.

You then go on to attack the people of Sligo by saying they suffer from “endemic emigration, uneconomic farming and clientalist dependency” and use this to presumably illustrate the futility of Bree plying a trade as a leftist to garner electoral support. This is also done to express Brees sincerity and is further underlined by your assertion that “heavy leftwing idologising ain't going to make any headway in such a social backwater”

This reasoning displays either a staggering lack of understanding of the historical political trends in Sligo town (not county- Bree began his political life in the town and it is here that his politics where mostly influenced) or is simply an attempt at deception. Sligo town in the late 60’s early 70’s had a huge latent left wing vote. Bree identified this potential and positioned himself on the left accordingly. His opportunism was evident early on when he ran against hunger striker Joe McDonnell but only really became apparent when he joined Labour and behaved as he did as a TD. In more recent times he has continued to display his opportunism by accepting pacts with FF for the Mayors position.

You finish with this insight “Only lively individuals with appeal to culchies and disappointed town dwellers can get somewhere, gradually.”

I’m not sure if this is apologism for Brees behaviour as a TD or his subsequent behaviour, either way and like much of what you have said, it spectacularly misses the point.

by Con Mon Mar 31, 2008 13:24

How can you explain that Bree began his interest in politics back in the '60s as a member of CYM (after leaving the L of M) and built up a Sligo power base by agitating on housing and other local issues? How explain that several years back he helped organise a commemoration in Mayo for a young man who had been killed in the
spanish civil war? How explain that he was one of few public representatives who attended the funeral over a year ago of Irish Workers Party/CPI general secretary Michael O'Riordain? How explain that before he joined Labour he always ran at election time as an independent socialist on an overtly anti-FF and anti-FG platform? He ran for several years a small leftwing nonprofit making bookshop in an alleyway off one of the Sligo streets which at the time was the only shop where you could get copies of works by Marx in the whole province of Connacht.
I am no acolyte of Bree - he's always pursued his own calculating agenda and has insisted on being continually in the driving seat; and he has often opposed development plans for Sligo for the sheer thrill of opposing. However, even the gliberal middle classes in Sligo admit that without him around the political and social life of Sligo-Leitrim (as the old constituency was called until the carveup) would have been deadly mediocre. Let's face it, the rump of voters in Sligo, Leitrim, Roscommon and Mayo are a politically dopey lot suffering from generations of endemic emigration, uneconomic farming and clientalist dependency. Heavy leftwing idologising ain't going to make any headway in such a social backwater. Only lively individuals with appeal to culchies and disappointed town dwellers can get somewhere, gradually.

by Cain Mon Mar 31, 2008 09:50

"Some people wonder how he was ever persuaded to join Labour as his instincts have always been further to the left."

Yeah, like when he voted for two right wing Taoisigh and voted in favour of the tax amnesty and domestic water charges. You cant get much further to the left than that *rolling eyes*

Bree joined Labour to cash in on the Spring Tide to get elected as a TD. Its as simple as that.

Bree is an opportunist who positioned himself on the left at the outset of his career for political gain. It also loosely complied with his republican sympathies and republicanisms early flirtations with socialism. He has no real political difficulties with those on the right and/or doing deals with them. On a national level he is readily identified as a sell out, locally he has managed to somehow further cultivate himself as a socialist and seems to have been forgiven his transgressions. Considering the company he keeps in Sligo Co. Co. however it is easy to see why.

He is broadly the most left wing councillor in Sligo by default. That is simply a result of him sitting on arguably the most right wing county council in the State, even by standing still he appears radical in such surroundings.

In reality he has effected no change and Sligo still remains a hot-bed of neo-liberal exploitation. A fact neither he nor whats left of Labour will change or even attempt to.

Soundbytes and throw back rhetoric is all he is good for.

by Con Mon Mar 31, 2008 06:15

Afraid I have to agree with you that Sligo Labour isn't working in high gear nowadays. They did poorly in the general election, coming way behind McManus of SF. They've lost out to SF in general elections since the early nineties. Not that SF are in the best of electoral health either - the division of the Sligo-Leitrim constituency into Sligo-North Leitrim and Roscommon-South Leitrim with 3 seats each really cut into the carefully cultivated voter base of SF. The personality disputes leading up to and following Bree's departure from Labour have weakened morale a lot. He was always a focused but divisive individual. Some people wonder how he was ever persuaded to join Labour as his instincts have always been further to the left. Things in Sligo are going to be difficult for some years. Old Labour stalwarts are depressed and see their lifetime work paying poor results.

by pat Sun Mar 30, 2008 23:13

It seems that in Sligo Labour are know for non attendance of meetings they didn't attend the meetings to save the Fairgreen nor have they attended any of the save our cancer meetings either Labour seem to have lost their direction in Sligo does anyone agree with me there . ??

by John Sun Mar 30, 2008 23:09

Labour party proberly wont show at the meeting they didn't attend any of the save our fairgreen meetings either the dogs on the street know that labour were when people power won the day and their friends in the chamber coomerce were stopped from changing apublic green space into a car park for their business friends shame on labour. !

by ned green Mon Mar 24, 2008 21:57

Great spread of political opinion and representatives as well as the general public present in the MCR Community Centre for the meeting held to create awareness of the plans the sligo county manager has,to sell off to greedy developers/speculators a public amenity used daily by hundreds of citizens for walking, running, jogging, dogwalking and other recreational activities.So far everyone who attended is united in their opposition to the managers devious plans.which hes conducting behind closed doors,so much for openess and transparency, However its sad to note that the sligo labour party have failed to support the campaign so far,this I suppose is not surprising as they seem to have more in common with the Chamber of Commerce,IBEC,ISME,than with issues and concerns of ordinary people.