Protest against the sale of Foie Gras - outside the Pearl Brasserie

by Mr Man Mon Jul 14, 2008 22:41

"Females are killed upon hatching, by being either drowned, beaten or crushed to death"
How else are you meant to kill newly hatched ducks? And It's rather difficult to beat a hatchling to death, what with them being so small and all.

"This soon results in their livers swelling to up to 10 times their normal size - which is actually a serious disease called hepatic lipidosis."
Actually, it's not a serious disease. Hepatic lipidosis happens naturally in that breed of duck and is non-fatal and reversible for them.

"the average pre-slaughter mortality rate is up to twenty times higher than on other poultry factory farms."
Untrue. There is a mortality rate of 2-4% during the fattening phase (4 weeks) which is equivalent to the mortality rate of non-fattened ducks for 12 weeks. Even conservative estimates are 3 times higher, certainly not 20 times.

"They have no chance to carry out any of their natural instincts, which include interacting in social groups, keeping themselves clean, nurturing their young, and exploring their surroundings."
Actually, they do. They only undergo the fattening process in the last 2-4 weeks prior to slaughter. Before that they are allowed to mix with each other etc. Some fois gras producers have the fattening process in group pens to allow them to interact but this was protested (!) because it caused distress to the animals at feeding times.

"they then have to go through a violent death by having their throats slit whilst hung upside-down."
This has been done for thousands of years to produce kosher and halal meat. It lets the blood drain from the body.

Your complaints don't seem to have an issue with gavage per se, rather with improper methods of keeping the birds, which is another issue altogether. Under ideal conditions a force-fed duck will not experience injury or liver necrosis, will retain the ability to stand and move around, and can be transported to slaughter without injury. It's only if the farmer is cruel that problems can occur.

And again, your support of terrorism further alienates me from your cause.

by Cat lover Fri Jul 18, 2008 16:53

Mr Man your lack of compassion offends me and even if you do not agree with a groups tactics, to belittle how these poor animals suffer is just a sign of your own disregard for non human life. I wouldn't be posting it on websites if I were you.

by Catlady Sat Jul 19, 2008 00:04

Mr. Man.....

You appear to know far far more than the ordinary layman about the production of foie gras.....

Perhaps you are a foie gras producer or seller....???

Perhaps a specialist in Geese and Duck liver disease....???

Either way, please do us the courtesy of giving us some reliable references for your "facts" and statistics.

I for one do not automatically swallow every line fed to me by the media (indy or otherwise) without knowing where the stated information originate.

I may just take you up on some of those "facts" you mention when it is not quite so late and I am not quite so busy.

by WTF Sun Jul 20, 2008 13:07

Give you a link Catlady.It is under his last post. Of course that will bge dismissed as propaganda.Same as any links the animal terrs will put up.So a draw really....

by WTF Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:26

They got a reaction from the pearl brassire owner,so they are going to concentrate all their efforts there.I think they might find him a hard nut to crack tho.Fair dues to him to stand up to this intimadatory mob.

by Mr Man Mon Jul 21, 2008 23:11

Catlady

Rather than rejecting my opinion based on knee-jerk reactions, of which you assume the only possible explanation is that I am a fois gras producer, perhaps you should read my posts in full. As WTF pointed out, I gave you my source. It is a report by the American Vetinary Medical Association Animal Welfare Division. Even in the report they reference many many studies done, all of which can be looked up. Of course, in your eyes the animal welfare division is probably a conspiracy by rich fois gras producers to undermine your cause. I am not doubting that some animals are poorly treated in the gavage process, but this is not a problem with gavage, rather a problem of cruel farmers.

Catlover

"Mr Man your lack of compassion offends me and even if you do not agree with a groups tactics, to belittle how these poor animals suffer is just a sign of your own disregard for non human life. I wouldn't be posting it on websites if I were you."

I love animals and abhor their mistreatment, but I feel the problem is with (as I said) cruel farmers as opposed to gavage. I'm sorry if reasoned debate isn't to your taste.

by Catlover Mon Jul 21, 2008 23:58

You wrote.....

"Females are killed upon hatching, by being either drowned, beaten or crushed to death"
How else are you meant to kill newly hatched ducks? And It's rather difficult to beat a hatchling to death, what with them being so small and all.

Reasoned debate has nothing to do with it......
Your answer to the first line spells out your lack of compassion to me and if you can whimsically comment on how you 'cannot beat a hatchling to death'
I would not consider you an animal lover, not in my book, as I said a lack of compassion.

by Mr Man Tue Jul 22, 2008 00:50

Catlover

I was simply questioning the validity of the statement. I find it hard to believe that hatchlings are beaten to death as their size would make it a laborious process, unless they took sick pleasure in it and again, not the fault of gavage, rather cruel farmers.

It may come as a shock to you, but unfortunately, animals die on farms. With almost any method of killing animals you can attach negative emotive language to it and play the demagogue. Case in point is "they then have to go through a violent death by having their throats slit whilst hung upside-down" which has been done for thousands of years in Halal and Kosher food preparation, which was intended to have the utmost respect for the animal, to try and avoid unecessary suffering.

Perhaps you believe that they should play a dulcet tone on a mandolin while giving the hatchlings an injection of painkillers that would slowly ease them into death, all the while whipping themselves and chanting 'im sorry, i'm sorry'

"I would not consider you an animal lover"
Well, I guess i'll just have to try to live with the fact that a brief encounter with an anonymous person on the internet can't gain a meaningful insight into my soul. I hope one day to get over it. One step at a time.

by DontyaKnowlike. Tue Sep 23, 2008 16:22

Well To be perfectly honest no offence to you Mr Man but i have to say that this certainly seems to me as an Inhumane way to treat any animal. causing Duck/geese Liver to swell? Cant say it sounds very comfortable. Also the brutality of the slaughter is obviously going to be offensive to Any animal lover. "beaten to death. Beaks cut off. Throat slit" As you have said its also s method used in the Prep of Halal Meat. That doesnt make it any easier to understand. Surely there are more humane ways to get HauteCuisine than the Bitter and Cruel Circumstance that is surrounding Foie Gras. Also in my opinion and its just my opinion nothing else can anything truely benefitial come from the offal of Geese and Ducks. Sure it may be high in Whatever its high in. But at the end of the day its the organs of an animal. When Ducks and Geese are wiped out its going to be "oh well Maybe we shouldnt have ate so much foie gras" Obviously thats not going to make any difference is it.
Anyway like i said before "Cuisine" like this is not prepped in a humane way. Its not healthy for Duck and geese to be treated like this and i very much doubt they enjoy it?
it certainly should be stopped.
And like i said before its just my opinion, Nothing else.

by Mr Man Thu Sep 25, 2008 22:49

DontyaKnowlike;

"causing Duck/geese Liver to swell? Cant say it sounds very comfortable. Also the brutality of the slaughter is obviously going to be offensive to Any animal lover."

I agree. Personally, I despise toungue and the thought of them cutting it out of a cow seems disgusting and sends shivers down my spine. People can respect these positions. It is when these positions are forced upon others that a problem arises.

"i have to say that this certainly seems to me as an Inhumane way to treat any animal"

That is the crux of the argument. Inhumane. Ducks/cows/chickens aren't human. Anthropomorphism cannot change that. The movement to assign rights to animals is just that, a movement, not a majority.

"But at the end of the day its the organs of an animal. When Ducks and Geese are wiped out its going to be "oh well Maybe we shouldnt have ate so much foie gras" '

Farming is responsible for the ensured survival of species. They won't run out of ducks and geese, they breed them. Over domesticated breeds of animals are undercompetitive in the wild.

"...to be treated like this and i very much doubt they enjoy it?"

I'm sure all the other animals just love being killed by other methods.

I respect your position and although I disagree, I would accept a ban on fois gras and other unpleasant farming practices and produces therof if the majority of the country also supported it. But I don't believe they do. So I get annoyed when a minority tries to determine the choices of the majority. But like you said, it's all just opinion.

by ISPCA Fri Sep 26, 2008 00:10

"That is the crux of the argument. Inhumane. Ducks/cows/chickens aren't human. Anthropomorphism cannot change that. The movement to assign rights to animals is just that, a movement, not a majority."

That's just nonsensical. A clear majority of people realise that animals have rights, including the right to humane treatment. That's why we have laws prohibiting animal cruelty. That's why any farmer who tried to make foie gras here in Ireland would be prosecuted.

by Mr Man Fri Sep 26, 2008 03:49

You are absolutely correct, my apologies I wasn't exactly clear. What I meant was the movement to give more human rights to animals; eg right to live etc. Thus more apologies are needed for DontyaKnowlike. I addressed the 'inhumane' question/statement incorrectly, I intended to address the increasing desire to attach uniquely human semantics to animals, rather than debate the right to humane treatment.