"Economic Alternative Agenda" Document Launch

by Leftie Sun Apr 26, 2009 15:52

Why is Vincent Browne speaking at this launch? Is this a debate between people in the SWP, PBPA and Vincent Browne because if it isn't then why have PBPA got a liberal capitalist like Browne on their platform?

In the Irish Times in his column Vincent Browne gave his opinion on how to resolve the economic crisis in he argued for cutting the wages of public sector workers, cuts and the introduction of third level fees he said

"Everyone else in the public service earning more than €40,000 would have a cut in income of 10 per cent (this would not be in addition to the pension levy; it would replace it);
Further cuts in public expenditure through a scheme of voluntary redundancies; the enforcement of full flexibility in the public service so that public servants could be reassigned to other roles; the cutting of wasteful projects; and the introduction of third-level fees accompanied by means-tested scholarships and other initiatives."

On the 1 April he also wrote "If, as I have argued for here previously, we take €1.5 billion more in taxation off the top 6 per cent of earners who earn more than €100,000 and then take a further €500 million off those earning between €50,000 and €100,000, we would be getting there. That would be €1.5 billion this year and €2 billion in 2010 and onwards. And then increased duties on drink and cigarettes, bringing in another €1 billion in a full year. Plus a property tax raising another billion. Plus carbon taxes, taxes on text messages. All probably bringing in around €10 billion over the two years. Then public expenditure cuts, primarily at the higher paid public servants."

Once again this calls for more taxes on workers and a property tax. In another article he called for the 41% tax rate to be increased to 50% which would hit every worker earning more than €35,000 a year.

Vincent Browne has made good proposals in his articles about increasing taxes on the rich etc but ultimately he views this financial crisis in the same way as the right wing parties and the top ICTU leaders, that it should be resolved through a process of so-called social solidarity with working class people "sharing" the burden of the crisis.

Vincent Browne should be challenged on these issues but it seems that PBPA and the SWP seem to think that Browne is on their side of the argument. Makes you wonder what direction they are headed in.

by Kikkoman Sun Apr 26, 2009 16:15

Just sped through the document. Not very original, a lot of it seems to be taken directly from the Socialist Party's programme!

Although what is noteworthy is it doesn't mention the need for an alternative political and economic system, i.e., socialism. It doesn't call for the replacement of capitalism. It is inherently a document which calls for the radical reform of the capitalist system.

It doesn't call for the nationalisation of industry and it avoids completely the issue of nationalisation in the part that deals with redundancies and plant closures during the current crisis which is bizarre, it means that PBPA isn't calling for the nationalisation of Dell, SR Technics, Waterford Crystal etc!

Now we have a more detailed explanation of what PBPA stands for we know that they are a soft "left" group, to the left of Labour but to the right of socialists and marxists, another brand of reformism.

by PBPA - People Before Profit Sun Apr 26, 2009 19:57

Sorry as you just sped through the document, what's not very original are your comments. None was taken directly from the Socialist Party's programme- in fact the document was drafted and put together from many people across people before profit. If you check www.peoplebeforeprofit.ie site you will notice a 'An invitation to discuss an alternative economic agenda', which took place in February over a day's workshop. Sorry to disappoint Kikkiman's conspiracy theory of robbing SP document.

Looking forward to the launch and again I encourage people to come along and take part in the launch.

by editor - spearireland Mon Apr 27, 2009 00:33

Wondering if the document is viewed as a finished exercise. What's important is that the promoters continue to engage with people at grassroots level and take it out of Dublin. It would be nice to input into an alternative agenda.

by Kikkoman Mon Apr 27, 2009 09:23

It is interesting how the spokesperson for PBPA managed to post something that ignored the central questions and criticism raised about their document and also ignored the questions raised by another poster about Vincent Browne.

I never said the PBPA document was stolen from the SP, I said some of it was taken from their programme and it is, all you have to do is go through old SP material and it is all their in black and white.

But this was not the main criticism I made. What about the remarks I made about nationalisation, about socialism, about capitalism and so on. You ignored them completely.

What about the comments by the other poster about you having Vincent Browne who supports college fees and extra taxes on PAYE workers and you have him speaking on your platform.

You have focused on the minor issue and ignored the most important, done like a true politician!

by supporter - pbpa Mon Apr 27, 2009 09:48

I think it is seen as a finished document with February meeting as a chance for people to come along and make comment, etc. You should still come along on Tuesday to the launch.
As for the remarks above from kikoman etc. its the same old boring nonsense, we've seen over and over again- same tired sectarian rubbish- change the record guys.

by Stabillo Boss - PBPA Mon Apr 27, 2009 15:06

1. Kikkoman writes: "Just sped through the document. Not very original, a lot of it seems to be taken directly from the Socialist Party's programme!"

None of it was directly lifted from the Socialist Party programme, as far as I know. There are former members of the Socialist Party involved with the People Before Profit Alliance. It is good if there happens to be a lot of correspondence with the Socialist Party programme. There is a lot of correspondnce between policies across the radical left, which is why the radical left should be presenting a united face, especially at this time, rather than competing units. The candidacy of Joe Higgins for the EU Parliament, for instance, presents an opportunity for all the radical left to act with one voice. So does the local elections.

2. K said: "Although what is noteworthy is it doesn't mention the need for an alternative political and economic system, i.e., socialism. It doesn't call for the replacement of capitalism. It is inherently a document which calls for the radical reform of the capitalist system."

Kikkoman might re-read the final section of the document, which clearly says:

"REAL CHANGE AND A NEW LEFT ALTERNATIVE

A new left political alternative is more urgent as every day passes. The People Before Profit Alliance is aiming to build that alternative and also to reach out to others on the left. Those on the radical left and independent activists need to put aside their differences and come together in campaigns, electoral alliances and a new political movement.

The crisis is by no means confined to Ireland despite the home focus of the media. The crisis is the result of an economic system which is based on a great contradiction. There is huge dependence of people on each other across the world, through the global system of production, for the goods needed to maintain our livelihoods.

Yet control lies in the hands of privileged groups who compete, speculate, gamble with funny money and exploit the rest of us. There is only one answer to that: to struggle to take control of the means of creating wealth into the hands of all the people, so that cooperation to produce things we need replaces competition for profit.

Only then can consumption and investment be kept in line with each other so as to stop crises of overproduction. Only then will we end the absurdity of poverty in the midst of plenty, of people having to consume less because too much is produced. Only then can we put democratic planning in the place of frenzied gambling with people's houses, jobs and debts."

2. K says; "It doesn't call for the nationalisation of industry and it avoids completely the issue of nationalisation in the part that deals with redundancies and plant closures during the current crisis which is bizarre, it means that PBPA isn't calling for the nationalisation of Dell, SR Technics, Waterford Crystal etc!"

Again a re-reading will reveal several calls for nationalisation and for new state industries.

3. K says: "Now we have a more detailed explanation of what PBPA stands for we know that they are a soft "left" group, to the left of Labour but to the right of socialists and marxists, another brand of reformism."

PBPA does not pretend to be a revolutionary marxist organisation, but a broad radical left alliance including revolutionary socialists and those who would not subscribe to everything in the marxist tradition, or call themselves marxists at all. One common denominator would be refusal to participate in a coalition with capitalist parties. This mix of marxist and other radical socialist and anti-capitalist actvists and workers would not differ greatly from the mix envisaged in the Socialist Party's projected new workers' party. This kind of mix is laid out as follows in the plan for a new party as campaigned for by the Socialist Party in England and Wales:

"We believe it would be wrong, at this early stage, to attempt to predetermine the structure or every aspect of a new party. That can only be decided on the basis of democratic debate leading to agreement amongst the forces involved.

However, if it is to be successful, it is crucial that a new party, and any pre-party formations, be open, democratic and welcoming to all those who want to work together against the neo-liberal onslaught on the working class. This means that all groups and individuals, provided they are in agreement with the basic aims of the party, should have the right to democratically organise and argue for their point of view."

by Kikkoman Mon Apr 27, 2009 15:57

Stabillo Boss - PBPA I have done as you suggested and re-read the document. I stand by my original comments.

The PBPA document doesn't call for the replacement of capitalism. It makes no mention of socialism at all. I accept that PBPA is not meant to be a Marxist organisation, but it is made up of component parts some of which claim to be Marxist and at the very least claim to be socialist. So why does this alternative economic model not mention socialism?

Stabillo Boss you are wrong when you say that the document calls for nationalisation. Maybe you should re-read it. It calls for the nationalisation of the banks but it does not call for the nationalisation of industry. It doesn't argue for the need for a socialist planned economy where industry would be nationalised and democratically run by the working class.

It also doesn't call for the nationalisation of industry that is threatening closure or large scale redundancies, like Dell, Waterford Crystal or SR Technics.

This is an extract of what it says about jobs .

"The working week needs to be cut to 35 hours while preserving existing pay rates in order to create extra jobs.
No business declaring profits should be allowed to declare redundancies during the current economic crisis.
Workers who occupy their workplaces to save jobs should be fully supported
Workers must have a first call as creditors in bankruptcy.
Change the law to give workers a guarantee of their pensions.
Firms which seek to move elsewhere to benefit from cheaper labour costs, must be required to pay back all state grants and tax subsidies.
In the context of the departure of jobs in multinational firms, not a single public sector job loss, compulsory or voluntary, should be tolerated by the trade unions.
Large companies facing insolvency should be kept going just as the banks were kept going."

It does not call for these companies to be nationalised, and the last sentence calls for big business to be bailed out in the same way that the banks have been by giving large sums of taxpayers money to the owners and shareholders. It is there in black and white: "Large companies facing insolvency should be kept going just as the banks were kept going." It makes no mention of nationalisation or workers control it simply calls for state bail outs.

Stabillo Boss you like the other contributor have also chosen not to deal with the issue of Vincent Browne speaking at your public meeting.

PBPA are using the name of a high profile journalist to attract people to their public meeting.

In the last few weeks Vincent Browne has called for the introduction of third level fees and a 10% cut in the wages of public sector workers in his columns in the Irish Times.

The PBPA document opposes the re-introduction of third level fees, but you have Browne speaking on your platform and he supports third level fees.

Why do PBPA have someone who supports these and other anti-working class measures speaking on their platform?

The PBPA document also talks of the need to create a new left alternative. However it does not mention the question of coalition with right-wing parties. This has been a major issue historically for the left in Ireland the betrayal of the Labour leaders in entering coalition with Fine Gael and Fianna Fail.

On the platform for your launch are three speakers who have all been members of parties that have been in coalition with the right. Declan Bree and Catherine Connolly did not oppose coalition when they were members of Labour. Chris O’Leary supported the Greens going into government with Fianna Fail. Chris O’Leary wrote recently "When the Party entered Government I was happy to support them and our programme for government in a positive way".

by Stabillo Boss - PBPA Wed Apr 29, 2009 17:38

The launch of the PBPA Alternative Economic Agenda in Dublin last night could not have been more timely, in the light of today's ESRI report claiming that the Irish economy will suffer the biggest drop in GDP (14%) in an industrialised country since the Great Depression.

The launch meeting was a resounding success, and very heartening for the future of a new left alternative, if the co-operation displayed is continued. Vincent Browne spoke well and RADICALLY, telling the left to get its act together and get together.

The remainder of the platform was varied and united: Catherine Connolly, Declan Bree, Richard Boyd Barrett, Joan Collins, Chris O'Leary and a Visteon worker. Incidentally, there is only one SWP member among that lot.

The Matt Merrigan Hall in Unite was standing room only, with up to 200 in attendance. The atmosphere was great with many new faces and voices.

It was announced from the floor that talks had taken place among the platform participants, and others, and it was hoped to have some form of left alliance to present to the electorate in June. It was said that 20 or 30 left councillors could come out of the local elections (presumabaly including Socilist Party councillors) to form the bases of a new left alternative.

by supporter - pbpa Thu Apr 30, 2009 09:30

Thanks Stabillo Boss for the review of the event. I hope to see photos and reports from other up here and on the people before profit site soon. I know the event was recorded too on video, so I'd love to see that too.
Good report- captured the event well. The hall was packed with many left standing around the edges of the hall, with all seats full.
It was a real step forward and there was a real sense of something new and a good beginning. Also the Visteon/Ford worker who spoke from Belfast was an inspiration.
All in People Before Profit- keep up the great work and best of luck in the elections and beyond.

by PBPA - People Before Profit Alliance Thu Apr 30, 2009 16:49 info at peoplebeforeprofit dot ie

People Before Profit's Richard Boyd Barrett will join the panel on Vincent Browne's TV3 Nightly News show tonight Thursday 30th April from 11pm.

You can also tune in and listen in to Richard Boyd Barrett speak on Pat Kenny Show on RTE Radio 1 tomorrow Friday 1st May from 11am.

Full report from Document launch will be on www.peoplebeforeprofit.ie soon

by PBPA - People Before Profit Alliance Wed May 06, 2009 18:48

For a full visual report of the Launch visit:
http://www.peoplebeforeprofit.ie/node/96

The People Before Profit 'Alternative Economic Agenda' Document

by Curious Wed May 06, 2009 22:17

Just seen the PBPA website that there are 13 candidates running yet there are only 12 names. Who is the other candidate? And what is the status of Catherine Connolly, Declan Breen and Chris O'Leary?

by PBPA - People Before Profit Alliance Fri May 29, 2009 15:42 info at peoplebeforeprofit dot ie

Watch videos of above launch and other press conferences including:
talks by Cllr Chris O'Leary (Ind, Cork), Richard Boyd Barrett (People Before Profit Alliance, Dun Laogahire), Vincent Browne (Journalist & Broadcaster), Cllr Catherine Connolly (Ind, Galway) and more...
here:
http://www.peoplebeforeprofit.ie/node/138