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Lisbon Treaty, where is the information?

category national | elections / politics | opinion/analysis author Wednesday May 06, 2009 17:14author by Chris.M. Report this post to the editors

Why have we not been given reasons to vote yes?

Regarding the Lisbon Treaty, I voted no along with the majority of voters last year. According to the government, I was misinformed and ignorant of the facts. The facts are that I had to assess the information that was in the media for myself because the government's effort was to allow the referendum commission to show ads on TV about people split in two walking around. The idea was that we should get the full picture. And in fact we all did get the full picture, so we voted no.

Now, here we are, probably a few months away from Lisbon 2 and not a squeak of information from the government as to why we should vote yes, except for the usual yadayada from Dick Roach about how Europe has been so good for Ireland in the past and will be in the future.

Is that it? Is that all that we are going to get from FF, FG etc? Why should we change our minds? Except for the recession, there are no additional reasons from our politicians as why we should change our minds. After all, it’s these same politicians that have ruined our economy and I include all the mainstream parties at that.

This time around, I feel that I want to vote yes. However I have not been converted to the yes side by any iota of information from the mainstream politicians. There should have been a joint effort by all parties since the new year to begin to get us to change our minds. Once again we are being let down.

I think that we need a complete reform of our political system. We currently are governed by school teachers and laywers. None of our government have any business experience and the entire civil public service is just a gravy train for all there.
That is why I will probably vote for Libertas from here on in. We need to shake the tree of government so hard that all those who don’t have a grip on the situation fall to the ground.

author by Jim Monaghan - PANApublication date Wed May 06, 2009 18:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

For what it is worth try our site
www.pana.ie.
There are quite a few alalytical articles on it and links to other leftish research.
the CAEUC site www.caeuc.ie has a lot as well
Regards
Jim Monaghan

Related Link: http://www.pana.ie
author by We the Peoplepublication date Thu May 07, 2009 00:07author address author phone Report this post to the editors


Check the site below for info on the Treaty and State sponsored backers of Lisbon Common purpose who are directly funded by the JP Morgan Bank.

Related Link: http://www.wethepeople.ie
author by Coilínpublication date Fri May 08, 2009 20:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors


It has been widely reported that the Lisbon Treaty faces a constitutional challenge in Germany, but not so widely that it also faces constitutional challenges in (at least) two other countries, Austria and now, for a second time, the Czech Republic.

German judges study Lisbon Treaty
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7881752.stm

A Czech friend tells me that a number of senators are launching a new constitutional challenge, and a report on the BBC’s website confirms:
Klaus scorns senators over Lisbon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8037441.stm

The 366-page Austrian challenge was drafted by Karl Albrecht Schachtschneider, Professor of Public Law at the University of Erlangen-Nürnberg, and filed with the Austrian Constitutional Court on behalf of a committee of petitioners on October 23rd, 2008. Its aim is to protect the Austrian constitutional system by reference to Article 1 of the Federal Constitution: “Austria is a democratic republic. Its law derives from the people.”

Petition Lodged with the Austrian Constitutional Court Against the EU Treaties
http://www.currentconcerns.ch/index.php?id=652
Austria’s Membership of EU in Breach of Constitution
http://www.currentconcerns.ch/index.php?id=679

Have I missed any others?

author by Coilínpublication date Fri May 08, 2009 20:30author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Since the threat to Irish neutrality was a significant factor in the defeat of the Lisbon Treaty by referendum, the following event seems relevant to this thread:

Seminar on Irish Neutrality
To discuss Irish neutrality in a European context
At the Irish School of Ecumenics, Bea House, Milltown Park, Dublin 6
On Saturday 9th May 2009, at 9 am-4 pm
Irish contributors will include Senator Deirdre de Burca, Professor Ivana Bacik, Dr Noel Dorr and Professor John Maguire.
(And I have been informed that Karen Devine will also participate.)
European contributors from Austria, Sweden, Switzerland and QCEA Brussels will discuss neutrality from their viewpoint.

More details:
http://www.tcd.ie/ise/events/articles/2009/05-09-Semina...y.php

author by Lisbon No Hoperpublication date Sat May 09, 2009 01:43author address author phone Report this post to the editors

NO MEANS NO and we should vote the same way as last time.

Let them see Ireland is a democracy and when we say No we mean No.

Why should we be penned in like sheep with the rest of the EU and have no democratic voice or make our own rules.

author by Arm-a-Geddenpublication date Sun May 10, 2009 00:47author address author phone Report this post to the editors

“Austria is a democratic republic. Its law derives from the people.”

Biffo and Co take note,but they are NOT capable of doing that.

Whats democratic about voting again on Lisbon the people have already said NO,what part of NO do they not understand.

"Ireland is not a democratic republic",and its law derives from the government,the government says you will keep on voting untill, we the government get a YES vote on Lisbon, they may be waiting a very long time for that hopefully.

No more con jobs we have had a belly full of them.

F/Fail/Greens the con mans Party.

author by Anoypublication date Sun May 10, 2009 20:04author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Why would the Irish government provide any info on the Lisbon treaty when fear, ignorance and shame are so much more effective YES vote getters

For example some arguments yoou might hear

Look at the state of the economy, if you dont vote yes we will be DOOMED and probarbly dumped by the EU and where we will we be then?
IF that happens it will be all YOUR fault for voting no,

Europe has been good to us, do you not want Ireland at the 'heart of Europe' stop being an ingrat and vote yes.

There is no need to understand what you are signing up for, nobody can understand the Lisbon treaty, except maybe those who drafted it, and we all know they have the best interest of the citizens of Europe at heart, did I mention Europe has been good to us.

Who reads contracts fully these days anyway? (certainly not Charlie McCreevy or any of the people pushing so hard for us to sign up), did I not mention Europe been good to us.

The Lisbon treaty is designed to stream line the workings of the EU and give more democracy to the institutions, of course how exactly it does this we are unsure as we have not read the treaty but that is what we have been told and surely the people at the EU would never lie to us, as I said Europe has been good to us"

There is no point arguing anything of substance when well over half the population is scared out of its wits and neither has the time nor the inclination to do their own due dilegence.

btw when they say "give more democracy to the institutions " they mean this in relative terms i.e the EU will be more democratic for sure after ratification but only relative to what exists today in the EU i.e huge democracitic deficit will be replaced with big democratic deficit, but hey dont worry these defencies will be addressed at a later date when the highly unaccountable institution of the Commision with far more power after ratification in areas such as Justice, will freely make itself accountable because its the right thing to do ;-), my own personal experience, is politicians and life long bureaucrats tend to be like that i.e highly moral, trust worthy characters, with a full grasp of how their policies and laws impact the common person.

author by lulupublication date Mon May 11, 2009 12:14author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Because they don't wanna take NO!!!!!!!!!! for an answer........
Perhaps they should list more options on the new ballot paper:
1/ YES
2/ Errrr....
3/ NO
4/ 1,000 TIMES NO - DON'T BOTHER ASKING AGAIN!

author by Peter Fitzsimons - Republican Sinn Féinpublication date Mon May 18, 2009 20:39author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"The Lisbon Treay that was defeated last year by the Irish electorate should not be re-run."

Press Release/Preas Ráiteas
Immediate Release: 17th May 2009

Republican Sinn Féin:
For Confirmation Contact:

Kells Town Council Local Election Candidate and Leinster Public Relations Officer:
Peter Fitzsimons,

Republican Sinn Féin Poblachtach
Teach Dáithí Ó Conaill
223 Parnell Street
Dublin 1

E-Mail peterfitzsimons2009@hotmail.com
Ard Oifig saoirse@iol.ie

Ard Oifig 01 872 97 57

LISBON TREATY SHOULD NOT BE RE-RUN

"The Lisbon Treay that was defeated last year by the Irish electorate should not be re-run."

"A vast majority of the electorate defeated this treaty threw there vote in 2008, and the 26 county administration is still pressing on, to force another referendum on those people who have already said no."

"It is another sign of how ignorant the state is when it comes to accepting the democratic wishes of the people, not only does it show how the state ignores the views and concerns of the people it also shows how inconsiderate they are when it comes to spending hard earned tax-payers money on a referendum that nobody wants."

ENDS

Related Link: http://www.freewebs.com/meathrsf
author by Silas Marner - Well versed Society Of Irelandpublication date Tue May 19, 2009 02:44author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I Honestly believe Irish people will vote YES TO LISBON this time round .

With the present Man Made recession in full swing the scaremongers are putting ''IT '' About and are covering all corners in order to stave off any xtra
bad vibes ,preferring to vote YES to appease our Neighbours in Europe and so putting the fall guy tag onto some other EU country that is next in line
to Vote . With the unholy mess we are in at the moment the Electorate wont take any chances whatsoever .

Its all about Timing Dear Fellow.

author by Roger Cole - Peace & Neutrality Alliancepublication date Tue May 19, 2009 15:41author email pana at eircom dot netauthor address 17 Castle Street, Dalkeyauthor phone 01-2351512Report this post to the editors

Silas Marner believes the people will vote yes if they are forced to vote again on exactly the same treaty they rejected last year because of the economic crisis. I do not agree. There has been no debate on the Lisbon Treaty since the vote. All that has happened is that the corporate media/political elite have conducted a relentless drumbeat that the massive economic crisis that has been caused by their commitment to militarism and neo-liberal economic policies will get worse if we do not sign up to the EU Constitution/lisbon Treaty which enshrines those very same values into EU law.In fact, the opposite is the case. It is only by the rejection of those militarist and economic values will the crisis come to an end. In fact, it is clear that a the public opinion polls only show people will vote yes if their concerns are addressed. Since the FF doinated government has no intention of doing so, I am convinced that there will be a massive shift to a no vote once that becomes clear. The only concern I have is that the corporate media will refuse to give us any media coverage. This means web sites like indymedia, www.pana.ie , www.sayno.ie
will have become even more effective than before.

Related Link: http://www.pana.ie
author by Roger Cole - Peace & Neutrality Alliancepublication date Tue May 19, 2009 15:41author email pana at eircom dot netauthor address 17 Castle Street, Dalkeyauthor phone 01-2351512Report this post to the editors

Silas Marner believes the people will vote yes if they are forced to vote again on exactly the same treaty they rejected last year because of the economic crisis. I do not agree. There has been no debate on the Lisbon Treaty since the vote. All that has happened is that the corporate media/political elite have conducted a relentless drumbeat that the massive economic crisis that has been caused by their commitment to militarism and neo-liberal economic policies will get worse if we do not sign up to the EU Constitution/lisbon Treaty which enshrines those very same values into EU law.In fact, the opposite is the case. It is only by the rejection of those militarist and economic values will the crisis come to an end. In fact, it is clear that a the public opinion polls only show people will vote yes if their concerns are addressed. Since the FF doinated government has no intention of doing so, I am convinced that there will be a massive shift to a no vote once that becomes clear. The only concern I have is that the corporate media will refuse to give us any media coverage. This means web sites like indymedia, www.pana.ie , www.sayno.ie
will have become even more effective than before.

Related Link: http://www.pana.ie
author by John Finlandpublication date Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Ireland is now the only country that can prevent the Lisbon treaty.

Some of you require a change in your politics and new politicians and says that will vote yes. I am surprised that someone can even imagine that politicians in the community would be better.

The politicians of the community do not care about minor states or their people. If the Lisbon treaty comes into force all decisions will be made for the advantage of the major countries in all matters.

Different minor countries have from time to time got some "carrots" so that they would have voted for the major countries. After the Lisbon treaty those "carrots" do not exist anymore since the major countries can make decisions themselves without any help from minor countries.

In Finland the politicians refused a public vote because they knew that it would have been no.

Now that you have a historical change to reject the Lisbon treaty, I hope that you are bright enough to vote no.

author by Orwelle - The return of the Bolkestein directivepublication date Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Traduction of a french article :
One announced the return of the Bolkestein directive to you, here the methods of his transposition
by Brown Thierry

Put between bracket time that the European elections are completed, the sensitive file of the transposition of the European directive of liberalization of the services, said “directing Bolkestein”, re-appears at the great day (see on my blog, http://www.politis.fr/article7133.html). The methods of transposition retained by France are detailed in a senatorial report/ratio published on June 17.

Is this a scoop? The media are sulky this information which is not of no importance since the transposition of this directive, before December 28, is regarded as one of the principal pillars of the “structural reforms” in France, if one believes of them the UMP Jean Bizet, which is incidentally a pro-GMO but also a Member of the Commission of the European Businesses of the Senate. However, a great number of political directors of this country, at the head Nicolas Sarkozy, is, will know why, convinced that this directive is buried… The Bolkestein syndrome and of the “Polish plumber” want that one forgets very what occurred since 2005 and one certain referendum on the European constitutional treaty. In France, no general information campaign would be programmed for the moment by the government. “Only a communication on “one-stop shoppings” [intended for the people receiving benefits and recipients of services to simplify the administrative formalities] would be considered in direction of the professionals. It would be carried out in close relationship with Medef, to the second half-year 2009”, us says Bizet. Not a trade union was not implied in this process…

Silence is thus necessary. And the media obtempèrent. Thus, the senator Bizet points out that the French government “gave up the objective, that it had initially considered, to file in a project of outline law to transpose the “directive services”. The French government mainly justifies its choice “by political considerations holding with the strong sensitivity of the implications of the “directive services”, on the regulated professions for example. An outline law of transposition could indeed serve as “scarecrow” with all those which would be tried of instrumentaliser a primarily technical exercise at electoral ends. It should not constitute a pretext with the “crystallization” of dissatisfactions of all kinds, all the more many in crisis period”. In other words, it is not necessary that the French realize that their services are liberalized, a subject which would overheat too the significant hearts…

However the same Jean Bizet, in the name of the commission of the European Businesses, refreshed the collective memory by publishing an information paper on “the state of the transposition of the “directive services””.

In the passing, the senator made the exploit to write only once on 37 pages the name, from now on dedicated to the gémonies, of Bolkestein… This document that I deliver to you in remote loading is highly instructive. Initially to locate the importance of the Bolkestein directive, here what the letter of the association of the mayors of France (MFA) says, Maire Information, dated Monday June 22: “Its article first establishes the general provisions making it possible to facilitate the exercise of the freedom of establishment of the people receiving benefits as well as freedom of movement of the services, while guaranteeing a level of quality raised for the services. The field of application of the directive is very broad. According to its article 2, it applies indeed to the abundant services by the people receiving benefits having their establishment in a Member State.”

The rules of the game fixed by the directive can change in the course of road: 2010 will be the first year of application of the directive, explains the Bizet report/ratio. It will be thus the occasion to measure the first effects of the text, in particular in terms of appropriation by the service providers, and to carry out possible “adjustments”, and… to adopt the measures of transposition which would not have been it yet. “On December 28, 2011, and thereafter every three years, the Commission presents a total return on the application of the “directive services”, accompanied, if necessary, of supplementary measure and draft amendments concerning the questions excluded from the field of application of the directive”. Those which were persuaded that a certain number of services (randomly, public services and the health care) would remain excluded will be for their expenses. “It is not inenvisageable that certain sectors now excluded from the field of the directive are reinstated there in the future, at the request of the professionals themselves”, underlines the Bizet report/ratio.

Here conclusions of the Council competitiveness of March 5 on the transposition of the directive “services”: “The implementation of the directive on the services gives an appreciable opportunity to us to evolve to a really integrated interior market, by removing the obstacles with the transborder commercial exchanges, by facilitating the access of SME to the market and by offering more a great choice to the consumers. The Member States should make sure that the necessary measures, including in terms of resources, were taken so that the directive on the services can be implemented in all its elements before the expiry of December 2009. It is advisable to redouble efforts in particular to conclude the re-examination and the modernization of the legislation of the Member States and to set up fully operational “one-stop shoppings”. The Commission and the Member States are invited to proceed to the preparations necessary so that a useful and effective process of “mutual evaluation” of the legislation of the Member States is in place in 2010”.

Monday June 22, 2009
www.politis.fr/article7444.html

Related Link: http://www.politis.fr/article7444.html
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