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It is urgently vital form a new vibrant immaginative and radical Green Party

category national | elections / politics | opinion/analysis author Wednesday March 31, 2010 15:43author by Angry Green Report this post to the editors

It is now time to form a new more left of centre Green Party as Traditional Green policies such as Climate Change, emissions reduction and renewable energy, while I agree with them are no longer enough. We don’t just want to save the planet. We want to make life so much better for the people living on it. The current Green Party has not delivered ( with the notable exception of power points for non currently existent electric cars!) and has no new ideas of any note whatsoever. They are no different than the other parties out there at the moment.

It is with great sadness that as a lifelong but disillusioned member of the green party I now call for a new Green Party to be formed. The main reason i choose this time to call for this is the betrayal by hypocrites such as De Burca etc on anti democratic decision to force the people to vote repeatedly for the Lisbon treaty until it was bullied through and passed and the fact that the Green Party has not delivered any radical changes in policy while in government such as workplace equality, economic security, wealth inequality, Corporation Tax inequality, A maximum wage as well as a minimum one, mental health or full Workers' Rights.

Traditional Green policies such as Climate Change, emissions reduction and renewable energy, while I agree with them are no longer enough. We don’t just want to save the planet. We want to make life so much better for the people living on it. Unfortunately are no longer the cutting edge of new policies in Ireland so why should young people join us rather than any of the other parties out there? Why are we not setting the debate on issues which are taboo to parties such as labour and sinn fein such as having a radical stance on drugs which would help the party reach a broader youth audience, instead of being afraid of real but 'taboo' issues that exist is all communities in this country. The Norwegian Green party for example has held policy discussions on drugs decriminalization of use and possession of illegal drugs, and legalization of cannabis. Instead of meekly following Harneys USA type health inequalities we should be looking at illness prevention, Wealth redistribution, quality of life and even Citizen's Incomes. We should actively oppose EU weak compromises which passes for policy on climate change, control of Dangerous chemicals etc.

As Peter Tatchell said in the UK: the Greens are now the only credible radical left-wing alternative and the best hope for advancing a progressive political agenda! and as the Current Irish Green Party has utterly failed to do this it, it is vitally necessary to form a new Green Party as there is no party that offers the Irish people the policies that are needed and some of which are outlined above.

author by old codger - pensionerpublication date Wed Mar 31, 2010 20:02author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The present Fianna Fail greens have just condemned the Irish people to decades of financial strugle.Their support and agreement with their criminal buddies in awarding taxpayers money to the crooked anglo bank along with their reneging on all their promises to people that voted for them , has thouroughly ruined their credibility. The name of the Green party has been ruined beyond repair. Trying to form another green party will be virtually imposible if you use the name Green
They will be wiped out at the next election. The people will not forget their treachery.

author by V for vendettapublication date Thu Apr 01, 2010 08:21author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The greens will probably be wiped out at the next election. The irony of it is that Fianna Fail will probably still get a substantial vote at that same election and still nobody will vote for the left parties whose policies are a little more beneficial for the weak in society.

People will vote in fine gael and they will continue to favour the rich and the merry go around will continue. When will people get wise. Plus ca change. The system works very well and is stable. It relies on a commodity called stupidity which is evidently in great abundance. We get the government we deserve.

author by Mike Novackpublication date Thu Apr 01, 2010 21:09author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"the Greens are now the only credible radical left-wing alternative and the best hope for advancing a progressive political agenda! and as the Current Irish Green Party has utterly failed to do this it, it is vitally necessary to form a new Green Party as there is no party that offers the Irish people the policies that are needed and some of which are outlined above."

No, the non green left should form its own party. Now by non green I don't mean anti green, but the sentiment expressed was clear enough that what was wanted was a party that would put social justice issues first and environmental issues a poor relation. Now there is nothing wrong with feeling that's the right thing to do but there is also nothing wrong with others feeling that a proper approach is to treat "environmental concerns" and "social justice" concerns as more or less equal. Leave the Greens to that and let them try to convince voters while you try to push your preference about which issues are most important.

author by old codger - pensionerpublication date Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:24author address author phone Report this post to the editors

When a party of noble ideals and policies fail to honour those policies and instead nowingly join with criminals to the ruination of their country THEY ARE NO LONGER CREDIBLE AND WILL NOT BE BELIEVED ANY MORE No matter what they promiss for the future.
The genuine and honest greens resigned from the party because they could see what Gormley, Ryan and co were doing and they were demonised for doing so.
If the genuine greens come together to form a new party the odds will be stacked against them because of the treachery of those presently in power. In my opinion the only chance they have is to join together as a group in another established party and try to influence that party with genuine green ideals.

author by Mike Novackpublication date Fri Apr 02, 2010 22:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I thought that in the parliamentary form of government, whenever there are more than 2-3 parties, especially when there are at least 4-5, that the only way to form a "govenrment" is by a colation WHICH OF NECESSITY represents a betrayal of SOME of the values important to each party in that coalition. Because were that ever not so, if the differences weren't on key issues, they wouldn;t BE separate parties.

Look -- I'm coming at this from an anarchist perpective so I don't expect "unity of opinion" but many diverse views and those holding those different views having to agree to some less than comfortable compromises in oreder to work together. I am NOT trying to suggest that the Greens didn't have to make some awful compromises to be in coalition but will suggest that the compromises that a true Green party will need to make with traditional left parties (should that ever be in the offing) will be NO BETTER.

In any case, the original argument was to have NON GREEN Green Party as the alternative (see previous sentence).

author by HBpublication date Sat Apr 03, 2010 04:07author address author phone Report this post to the editors

As Peter Tatchell said in the UK: the Greens are now the only credible radical left-wing alternative and the best hope for advancing a progressive political agenda! and as the Current Irish Green Party has utterly failed to do this it, it is vitally necessary to form a new Green Party as there is no party that offers the Irish people the policies that are needed and some of which are outlined above.,


just a piece of advice: NEVER, I repeat NEVER, take political advice from Peter Tatchell. And certainly do not ever try and apply any of his ideas when dealing with the subject of Irish politics. He knows a lot about Gay activism, which just happens to promote Peter Tatchell, but nothing about politics. The only time he was ever elected to anything was waaaaaay back in 1980 as secretary of his local constituency Labour Party, and then only with the help of Militant, something which he denies. Prior to that his only other elected position was as his class president in school. The man couldn't get elected as 'Dog Catcher' even in Soho or Earls Court. People just do not like him, and it's not because he is gay but IMO because they realise that Peter Tatchell's devotion is to furthering the cult of Peter Tatchell

also: the Irish Green Party are not and never were 'left wing' - they are in fact probably the only totally non-left-wing Green Party in the whole of Europe. It is a tragedy that many of the Green Party members never realised this.

I once pointed it out to Patricia McKenna and she at least had the decency to be slightly embarrassed about it, indeed she was the first of the Green Pols to realise this, and even she left it quite late. Nessa Childers once gave me a very icy stare when I had the temerity to lecture her on this. At the time I used a recent speech by Gormley on the need for more stringent 'anti graffitti' legislation to prove this too her. I pointed out that, in the midst of all the revelations of sleaze and corruption prior to the last election, such legislation could never have been considered as some sort of priority by member of any party with even mild left-wing credentials, and the fact that Gormless considered it worthy of a soundbite showed that he was only concerned with representing the viewpoints of financially comfortable middle-class voters, with the spare time to be riddled with post-modern angst, in the leafy suburbs of South Dublin

In fact the Greens do not represent the viewpoints of the majority of the people who consider themselves to be 'working class' - and this is true of all Green Parties Europe-wide. Irrespective of what people will tell you, Green parties are a middle class phenomenon and in Ireland the middle class have always been firmly right-of-center. Worse still, the majority of Irish people who consider themselves to be 'working class' are also pretty firmly right of Center, but few of them have any time for Green politics.

The Labour Party aren't even a recognisable left wing party, in the European sense - virtually all Irish politics resides firmly in what in European term is described as 'Center/Right-of-center' - the hilarious thing is that most Irish are not even aware of this.

Any one talking about a 'credible radical left-wing alternative' and expecting to win votes in Ireland is just fooling themselves.

the political landscape might change as the economic situation inevitably and rapidly progresses from 'Bad' to 'absolutely fucking Dire', but my guess is the majority will move even further right, rather than left, making ANY radical left-wing alternative even more unelectable

basically the majority of Irish are political illiterates

author by Maggio - sometime Ecosocpublication date Sat Apr 03, 2010 05:36author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"No, the non green left should form its own party. Now by non green I don't mean anti green, but the sentiment expressed was clear enough that what was wanted was a party that would put social justice issues first and environmental issues a poor relation. Now there is nothing wrong with feeling that's the right thing to do but there is also nothing wrong with others feeling that a proper approach is to treat "environmental concerns" and "social justice" concerns as more or less equal. Leave the Greens to that and let them try to convince voters while you try to push your preference about which issues are most important."

Fundamentally I see your point Mike but you say you're coming from an anarchist perspective. Do you not think that anarchist ideas of community empowerment tally quite well with a green agenda? It's true that the traditional left has concerned itself with appropriating the capitalist economy rather than superseding it but that's not the only option. In reality "environmental concerns" and "social justice" don't have to be mutually exclusive. The choice does not have to be either green or red. Both are possible. Think of the watermelon - green on the outside and red on the inside (with black seeds if that's your taste).

"the Irish Green Party are not and never were 'left wing' - they are in fact probably the only totally non-left-wing Green Party in the whole of Europe. It is a tragedy that many of the Green Party members never realised this."

Please view http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Greens_and_Farmers. This statement is factually inaccurate. There is both a right wing and a left wing tendency within the Green movement. The fact that most European Green parties have tended to lean left in the last twenty or thirty years does not mean that Green politics is intrinsically left wing.

"The Labour Party aren't even a recognisable left wing party, in the European sense - virtually all Irish politics resides firmly in what in European term is described as 'Center/Right-of-center' - the hilarious thing is that most Irish are not even aware of this."

I don't find it particularly funny but horses for courses. I also think this is an over-simplification. We have to look at how FF have managed to capture a potentially left-leaning rural vote and how they forged links in the trade union movement. FG is certainly a right wing party, as is the modern FF (although of a distinctly Gaullist character, at least traditionally). While Labour are certainly on the right from where I stand I don't really think they're too far removed from other "Socialist" parties throughout Europe. The left-right axis is not necessarily the best way to understand the Irish political system and the ideological forces at work here are not at all out of line with those that exist throughout the rest of Europe.

The Irish Green Party is not recuperable from the electoral perspective. Their participation in government has been an unmitigated disaster and it is probable that any party that autodefines itself as Green will fail to gain significant support at the polls for the next twenty years, probably forever.

There is currently no electoral outlet for those looking for an ecologist perspective. The best course is probably to argue the environmentalist case within SF or Labour. In spite of their failings I still think you'll find a more open ear there than with FF or FG.

While I agree with the tone of the original article I don't think electoralism is the way to go for the ecological movement right now. We have to (continue to) work outside the electoral system, concentrating on specific campaigns and exerting political influence where possible. As regards representative democracy the possibility of having a strong Green voice is gone and will not come again.

author by socialist - .publication date Sun Apr 04, 2010 21:54author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Green issues can easily be incorporated into socialist policies. Effectively as long as therule of profit exists (and the rule of the minority dominant classes) Green issues will never be dealt with properly. You might have some chance within a post capitalist society to push the green agenda, but little chance within the current arangment. I would suggest you join the SP or SWP and set up a Green faction within them. You're closer to there politics than the greens.

author by Mike Novackpublication date Sun Apr 04, 2010 22:41author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"Green issues can easily be incorporated into socialist policies. ........... You might have some chance within a post capitalist society to push the green agenda, but little chance within the current arangment."

True -- but take a look at what you are saying. That's an argument that THEY are going to be your enemies (of necessity) and WE might or might not, there is no NEED for us to be your enemies. Perhaps (in fact probably, and I damn well hope so) there would be SOME forms of socialism that would be compatible with humans livign in balance with the rest of the ecosystem.

But wait just a moment. Practical politics is always of making deals. Isn't that the PRICE that the "greens" must extract from the "socialists" in exchange for their ACTIVE support -- that the form of socialism being worked for be one of those which is compatible with living in balance instead of one of the forms from the tradition "Let us throw off the yoke of the capitalists and then we can together conquer nature for the benefit of all rather than just the few".

This is a matter of belief. Many (overwhelming most?) of the traditional leftists do not believe that the ecological crisis is real, think it just an artifact of capitalism what will vanish like magic once capitalism has been replaced. Sort of like believing that eliminating the bully who has been going around smashing knee caps will magically cause the lame to walk again. Yes of course, eliminating the bully is NECESSARY but not SUFFUCIENT.

For those who believe that our industrial civilization and a human population that will surely go over 9 billion is hopelessly out of balance "capitalism" is just ONE problem.

author by cheebapublication date Mon Apr 05, 2010 17:51author address author phone Report this post to the editors

As a left-leaning ex-member of the Green Party I just want to comment on the apparent social justice-enviroment tension.
I see it like this - peak oil, over population, water shortages, cliimate change, species extinsion, pollution and waste issues are all seff-evident as massive problems today and potentailly explosive issues in the coming decades.
No reasoned commentator, scientist or interested civilian, be they left, right or neither denies these problems. The disagreement centers on where to apportion blame and what steps are necessary to try to mitigage the worst effects of these ecological tsumani.
To those from a broadly left persuasion it is clear that capitalism (ie. the system by which our society is organised) has in large part been dirctly or indirectly responsible. This I think is agreed between all left-leaning individuals and parties.
If one wanted to encapsulate the problem in a word it would be the decidedly consensual notion of 'over-consumption'. Not exacly a slogan to get them to the barricades but it has the beauty of addressing both aspects of our global and local problems - it strikes at the very basis of capitalism and it provides a way to address various enviromantal issues.
The difficulty between traditional left parties and many greens is that the traditional left does not place the same importance on enviromental concerns as those who would call ourselves Green.
Enviromental issues are to be addressed after unemployment, social exclusion, worker's rights etc. Much as women's liberation would follow the Socialist revolution, enviromental concrens will be addressed at some later point.
Labour, for example, would disagree strongly with the concept of 'de-growth' a central tenant of any green economic analysis. Perpetual growth is based on the exploitation of the enviroment and premised on an ever-reducing supply of fossil fuels. But Labour would say returning the encoomy to growth (at least temporarily )is much more important. I'm assuming labour are doing it 'for the right reasons' (secure jobs, reduce unemployment etc. ) but its wrong and short-sighted and unsustainable and deeply conservative. It is prolonging the misery and delaying the behavioural change that needs to happen - but there's few votes and fewer soundbites in that.
I am not a theorist but it seems to me that placing sufficient emphasis on over-consumtion would be contradictory for the tradition left - they will not blame people for seeking solace in material possesions, nor does it fit neaty into the victim mentality - for who could we blame but ourselves? I think of the bin-tax debate/campaign or the proliferation of satelite dishes and LCD TVs in every corpoaration estate in the country.
I believe the traditional left are missing the opportunity of this generation to recognise the immediacy of enviromantal concerns and the resonance thay have with a massive percentage of the populace. Farmers, students, the unemployed, fishermen, factory workers, housewives, teachers - there is no sector that the narrative cannot be address to.
I believe and I see evidence in some quarters of a realisation that enviriomentalism is the means through which any radical social change will take place.
Initatives like the red-green alliance in Derry were very interesting but as an outside observer it seemed to me a rather unveven enterprise, located in a coherant socialist (trotskyite) ideology but without having really worked out the enviromental end of things or how these different strands might compromise and co-habit . One wonders if a large factory offering well-paid employment had been proposed for Derry, one with a significant enviromental impact (such as DuPont?) what position the red-green movement would have taken.
Any left green party will have to grapple with such difficult issues and offer a coherant position.
Downsizing, local food/co-op initiatives, micro banking, fairtrade, eco-villages, local currancies, organic farming, re-skilling initiatives would all be part of the mix. But many of the traditional left would not consider these to be worthwhile or important to the majority (unless they were in Chiapas maybe) - many would dismiss them as elitist. Yet they are the only real-world alternative to global capitalism - they are much, much more radical than taking a few seats on the Corporation
Virtually every social injustice in the world today is either directly or very closely related to various abuses of the enviroment - from the behaviour of multinationals to soil degradation, water shortages, events linked to climate change, industrial farming and fishing, migration.
The revolution will be behavioral and organic, not directed by tradition socialist ideology. This is because any revolution will be rooted in real world concerns.
It may not be as dramatic as some would like but refusing to shop in a supermarket, reducing meat consumption, conserving water, reducing waste, reusing and recycling, is the revolutionary cry of the twenty-first century.
If a traditional left party were to recognise and adapt to this reality I would rush to their banner.

author by floating voterpublication date Wed Apr 07, 2010 13:06author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I agree with the concept of a party dedicated to environmental justice and equally important to social justice issues. I have been involved with micro parties on the left before, but they all either completely failed or survived just to keep fighting rival micro parties and and or scoring points about trivial issues of dogma etc. I am definitely not going to join any of the currently existing left parties including gormleys greens. If Patricia Mc Kenna and some of the more honourable former Greens ( with the exception of Deirdre De Burka) formed a new party I would definitely join it. This would be viable and worth putting work into because at the end of the day there are somewhere between 3 and 5 % of Irish voters who are concerned about environmental and ecological issues and we should not continue to allow middle class opportunists such as Gormley and De Burka etc to have a monoploy in this important area.

author by Scientist.publication date Wed Apr 07, 2010 13:25author address author phone Report this post to the editors

If the Green Party were imaginative they would endorse Nuclear Energy.

More people are killed by falling down the stairs every year than have ever been killed in Nuclear accidents since 1945.

If you want to ban "dangerous" then ban your car.

About one million people are killed every year in transport accidents.
.

author by Physicist.publication date Sat Apr 10, 2010 19:50author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Two days ago the European Space Agency launched the "CryoSat-2 "satellite to explore earth's ice regions:

http://www.esa.int/esaMI/Cryosat/SEMH5ZZNK7G_0.html

The data it returns will inform the science.

.

author by socialistpublication date Mon Apr 12, 2010 13:14author address author phone Report this post to the editors

As a left of centre member of the Green Party from a non middle class background I believe that splitting away and forming a new Green party would only benefit parties such as labour and sinn fein. These parties are not really any more socialist than the current Green Party and they are far less environmentally aware or concerned. I think Electric Cars which were dismissed in one of the above comments are a huge advance for humanity and have the potential to prevent wars in the future over dwindling resources etc. The Irish Green party has been instrumental in convincing the ESB to supply the power apparatus to members of the public that enable this new technology to be effectively used. This will put Ireland to the fore in this important area. This is one major Policy that the Green party achieved that no other party can claim. I have my differences with the current 'middle class' leadership but I strongly believe that Patricia McKenna should have stayed on to fight for more egalitarian and left wing policies rather than leaving the party.

author by Technologist.publication date Mon Apr 12, 2010 13:49author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Electric car technology is not up to the task yet socialist.

The problem is with the battery "staying power".

It's a heck of a job, as yet, to get an electric car to go more than a hundred kilometers or so before it needs recharging.

The battery takes time to recharge but that can be solved by swopping out the entire battery much as we "fill up" at the moment.
But that takes a huge infrastructural investment in an as yet immature technology.
(Not sensible for this bankrupt country which borrows heavily just to pay wages.)

Maybe the stinking rich Norwegians can pull the trick off.
Norway has more spare cash in its coffers the entire national debts of Britain and Ireland combined. Yet not even the wealthy Norwegians have tried it.

Affordable mass produced hydrogen fuel cells are still a long way off.

Their day will come though.
.

author by Technologistpublication date Wed Apr 14, 2010 19:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Good news.

It is legal to put a 200 watt motor on your push-bike providing that it does not exceed 15MPH.

(If the motor is more powerful it means that the bike legally becomes a "Moped" which has to be taxed and insured............ and you need to pass a drivers test.).

Bah!

An entire new industry is growing up around Electric Bikes.

They are a bit expensive at the moment.

Just one example:

http://www.powacycle.co.uk/Salisbury-Lithium-Polymer-El...e.asp

author by cheebapublication date Wed Apr 14, 2010 20:22author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"These parties (labour and Sinn Fein) are not really any more socialist than the current Green Party and they are far less environmentally aware or concerned."

I think you are wrong here - they at least have rejected NAMA and sought to preserve wage levels. Please explain how the current Green Party could in any way be considered socialist.

"I think Electric Cars which were dismissed in one of the above comments are a huge advance for humanity and have the potential to prevent wars in the future over dwindling resources etc."

Consider two questions - the embodied energy in the manufacture of electric cars (cf. a study that showed in a 'life cycle' analysis of a Toyata Prius and a Hummer, showing the Hummer to have a lower enviromental cost when all factors were taken into account) and secondly where will the electricity come from (coal, nuke)? A huge advance for humanity - I think not.
Ryan has bottled any radical measures to address car dependancy - he instead wants it every way - talk up the enviroment but keep the cars and the system that depends on them.

"The Irish Green party has been instrumental in convincing the ESB to supply the power apparatus to members of the public that enable this new technology to be effectively used. This will put Ireland to the fore in this important area."

Eamon Ryan is in charge of the ESB for christs sake, it is a state owned company. We should not have to 'convince' them of anything. Respectfully you are talking shite here. The ESB only recently agreed to buy back micro-generated electricity, at the lowest per unit rate in the whole of the EU. These are not achievements they are embarassments and show how little leverage (or bottle) Ryan actually has.

"..but I strongly believe that Patricia McKenna should have stayed on to fight for more egalitarian and left wing policies rather than leaving the party."

Well you were obviously not there to see one discracefully disrespectful snub after another. Gerrymandered votes to the NEC, speaking rights denied etc. etc. The truth is that the current leadership controls every important position in the party structure and dictates policy in a way that would make a trotsyite trade union blush.

Get real...

author by Physicist.publication date Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:52author address author phone Report this post to the editors

In 20 years time an array of wind farms will supply all of Ireland's energy from the west coast.

Wind generated electricity will become our major export.

Now and again the wind will stop and electricity will be imported back into Ireland through the same wires.

This will be an occasional import.

The exported energy will far exceed the imported energy.

No Brainer.

author by futuristpublication date Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:45author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I am a young voter and together with some of my friends, especially those who care about the environment will be voting for their first time in the next elections. We will vote for an environmental party but if a new Green Party is formed we will vote for which ever of them has the best policies. At the moment there is only 1 Green Party so I will give my support to that party unless or until a better one is formed.

The only policy that I have a problem with is the betrayal of Tara. To me our heritage is as important as our environment so that would be one policy that might convince me to vote for a new type of Green Party. My mother lives in County Wexford and works in Dublin so 100 km would be fine for an electric car for our family and it would help to prevent future "resource wars" being waged by the USA or the EU if enough people use them.

My friends are concerned about these oil wars of the future and we will definitely be considering parties who have thought out policies on wave power from the sea more so than wind farms which Ireland was too slow to develop and the jobs relating to wind farm technologies are now mostly in Denmark a small country which was not too conservative or cautious to invest billions in a new technology!

author by donkylemorepublication date Mon Apr 19, 2010 22:02author address author phone Report this post to the editors


Did you know that there are 40 shades of Green - so sang Johnny Cash in the 60's
But this party in coalition with FF is not of any of those shades. It is middle class- self serving , self righteous , dizzy with the dalliance of power .
The left side of the Green spectrum is yellow . Now that's perhaps the flag the party of Mr Gormley et al
I am trying to make a collection of the famous Green speeches of this party. Mr Gormley's best was on the street brawl he had with Mc Dowell .
Ryan's best was when he appeared on Prime Time . His knees were doing a neat 4/4 timing under the table in ''adante mode''

But the most quotable has to be that of Mr Gogarty '' **k You Deputy Stagg ..***k You !!''
And no suspension ensued . Can you imagine this happening in the House of Commons ?

author by Green revolutionary - swppublication date Tue Apr 20, 2010 20:20author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Interesting tread. Point is there is going to be a similar problem in any new party eventually.
Either you believe that you can reform the exsisting system, in order to achieve your goals |(social justice, or environmental justice,) or you believe that we need to change the system by a revolution.
All attempts at reform will end up like the present greens, althought maybe not as loathsome to look at!!

author by Miriam Cottonpublication date Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:02author address author phone Report this post to the editors

I agree with what Maggio says - this isn't an either or situation. I'd go further and say that true evinornmentalism is definitive libertarian socialism. Anyway, if it is decided to start a Real Green Party, count me in.

author by Technologist.publication date Wed Apr 21, 2010 20:30author address author phone Report this post to the editors

"The left side of the Green spectrum is yellow ."

It depends on what convention you use to write out the spectrum.

Black,Brown,Red,Orange,Yellow,Green,Blue,Violet,Grey and White.

If you reverse the order the Greens swop with the Yellows.
.

author by fusterpublication date Wed Apr 21, 2010 22:31author address author phone Report this post to the editors

Why have some people got it into their minds that Green Politics have anything to do with ideological socialism.

They haven't.

The Green movement is neither right nor left. It exists outside such outdated definitions.

If you want socialism or ideological capitalism join the WP or try to revive the PDs. You have missed the entire point of the Green movement.

author by Soundmigrationpublication date Thu Apr 22, 2010 00:08author address author phone Report this post to the editors

For people interested in looking for new green movements you should come along to this this weekend

Gluaiseacht for Global Justice, the activist network that supports Climate Camp and other environmental and social justice campaigns in Ireland is holding a weekend of workshops and skill sharing for people who are interested in geting active for environmental and social justice. There will be a wide range of talks and workshops covering issues about carbon trading, media skills and direct action, water tax and much more.

The weekend aims to provide a space for creating/building/sustaining the processes that lead to movement building.

more info at http://www.indymedia.ie/article/96305

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author by Tpublication date Wed Nov 06, 2013 00:33author address author phone Report this post to the editors

The May-June issue of New Left Review had a very good article covering the demise of the Green Party in Germany. As we know our own Green Party has more or less collapsed to nothing and it has been for broadly similar reasons which are basically the move to the right and tacitly supporting the NeoLiberal / Free Market ideology which for many with any half decent understanding of the environment realize this is both an unjust and unsustainable system.

In the case of Germany though the Greens went further and directly enabled Germany's role in the bombing of civilian infrastructure in former Yugoslavia which began on 24th March 1999.

The whole article is well worth a read but this paragraph demonstrates the degree to which they completely turned against everything that the party stood for and in terms of relevance for the Green Party in Ireland, they too in their own way did much the same which include turning their back on the anti-war movement, ignoring the great gas robbery in Mayo and so forth.

After the party had renounced this foundation stone of Green politics, everything else was up for sale. In the aftermath of the Yugoslav war around a third of the membership left and was replaced by a new intake, more amenable to the leadership’s orientation. Formerly defenders of the welfare state and proponents of economic redistribution, the Greens became enthusiastic supporters of Schröder’s neoliberal Agenda 2010, which led to a tremendous plundering of public assets, social insurance and pension funds, while repressing wages and granting tax cuts to business worth billions of euros—effectively, a redistribution of wealth from poor to rich. Even more startling was the Greens’ complete surrender to Germany’s nuclear industry; the struggle for the phase-out of nuclear plants had been the party’s core issue, surviving as the sine qua non of Green electoral promises through long years of parliamentary compromise. Now the Greens were in government, worn-out reactors received an extended life for at least ten years, while hazardous storage dumps for nuclear waste and a debt guarantee for the entire industry were pushed through by Green Environment Minister Jürgen Trittin, who remained indifferent to the further criminalization of anti-nuclear protests under the Schröder–Fischer government. In a similar vein, the Greens approved new surveillance laws, restrictions on civil rights, discrimination against foreigners and militarization of the police, making the emergency legislation of 1968 which had then provoked so much unrest seem almost trivial in hindsight. It was the achievement of the spd and its Green partner to force through legislative projects which they had successfully obstructed themselves during the long years of opposition in the Kohl era.


It really demonstrates how there is not a single party of any hue in any country in the world today that will not sellout to the corporate police state and that people are foolish to place any trust or hope in them and the only change that will occur that is of benefit to the people is the change carried out by the masses.

The full article: WHAT’S BECOME OF THE GERMAN GREENS? is at the link below

Related Link: https://newleftreview.org/II/81/joachim-jachnow-what-s-become-of-the-german-greens
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