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The Saker Indymedia Ireland is a volunteer-run non-commercial open publishing website for local and international news, opinion & analysis, press releases and events. Its main objective is to enable the public to participate in reporting and analysis of the news and other important events and aspects of our daily lives and thereby give a voice to people.
Public InquiryInterested in maladministration. Estd. 2005
Human Rights in IrelandIndymedia Ireland is a volunteer-run non-commercial open publishing website for local and international news, opinion & analysis, press releases and events. Its main objective is to enable the public to participate in reporting and analysis of the news and other important events and aspects of our daily lives and thereby give a voice to people.
Lockdown Skeptics
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sp on connolly? national |
miscellaneous |
news report
 Monday August 26, 2002 16:00 by jc
 Connolly spends a lot of time discussing the Irish `race' Well, time for the voice of dissent. As one who would not lift a finger to save his country, I think that Connolly has wrought irreparable harm to the World Workers' movement. In the first case, he basically subordinates his Socialism to his nationalism, thus we find phrases like: This linking together of our national aspirations with the hopes of the men and women who have raised the standard of revolt against that True patriotism seeks the welfare of each in the happiness of all, and is inconsistent with the selfish desire for worldly wealth which Basically, then, he sees patriotism first, and then finds it confirmed in the working class. Much the same was true of Hyndman & the following shows a distinctly dodgy line, similar to the Norman yoke argument of English bourgeois revolutionaries: As Socialists we are not imbued with national or racial hatred by the remembrance that the political and social order under which we live From the same, we see that his internationalism conceives itself in the form of eternal and equal nations: In that there is not a trace of chauvinism. We desire to preserve with the English people the same political relations as with the people of France, or Germany, or of any other country; the greatest possible friendship, but also the strictest independence. That is, he conceived nations as eternal units of property, which would continue to exist in socialism. As someone who wants to abolish all nations, I consider him thus an enemy. As here, his definition of a `Free Nation' What is a free nation? A free nation is one which possesses absolute control over all its own internal resources and powers, and which has So, that is, we will have commodities and competition among nations (comprising of mysterious `races', whatever they are, Connolly spends a lot of time discussing the Irish `race'). And of course, the socialism will only applies to the members of the specific `races' Thus we find him fulminating: Ireland's rich natural resources, and the kindly genius of its children, are not to be allowed to combine for the satisfaction of Irish wants, Culminating in this nonsense: As the separate individual is to the family, so the separate nation is to humanity. The perfect family is that which best draws out the A part of the reification of Ireland, which unlike Belgium, is not a construct of statesmen, apparently. This course lead him ultimately to a mystic position on nationalism: …there still remains in Ireland a spot where a body of true men and women are ready to hoist, gather round, and to defend the flag made We are out for Ireland for the Irish. But who are the Irish? Not the rack-renting, slum-owning landlord; not the sweating, profit-grinding A hero, to nationalists only, I'm afraid. Nationalism assumes that distinct areas of teh globe remain *property* of distinct groups of Bill M. (Socialist Party)
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Comments (30 of 30)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30Out of curiosity, is this now to be Socialist Party policy, is some-one flying a kite for the party or is it just some guy with enough time on his hands that selective quoting from Connolly to discredit him is something to keep him busy?
Ach Justin, don't be wasting your time on this childish drivel.
If I could be bothered I might get around to digging out an article I wrote years ago and posting it here. Maybe. But life is a bit short and somewhat cluttered up with important campaigns where people are DYING or under threat of death. Nice is coming up. Loads of articles to be written, etc.
But Trotoids like this one have nothing to do but slander the name and ideals of Connolly.
Wasters!
I believe in connollys teachings. Ive studied him and the pamphlets which have been noted in the above article are being taken totally out of context.
Connolly oppossed the British in Ireland as Imperialism. He stressed the need for an independent workers republic, this said he also recognised the fact that an Irish Republic would be useless without a social revolution to follow (Something which the above article failed to mention)
Connolly was entirely correct in most of his analysis of the Capitalist Society, for this I cite Parlimentry Democracy among some of his work. To say that Connolly was simply a Nationalist is wrong and indeed arrogant, for Connolly unlike the then Nationalist Ireland, as I said above saw that a republic was worthless without socialist change, furthermore James Connolly, when talking about the Irish refers to all on this Island irresepective of creed.
Connolly applied Socialism to the then Irish conscience and even today his ideas are still worth reading and learning.
The above article was not written by anybody connected with the SP in Ireland but by a member of the Socialist Party of Great Britain (SPGB) which is a different outfit altogether. And no it isn't affiliated to the SP in Ireland.
My two cents on this is that Connolly could probably do without a lot of the people who claim him. And that includes the Shinners who march out to his grave every year to make sure he's dead. While Connolly isn't an infallible guide - he wrote a fair bit of nonsense in his time - he still stands head and shoulders above most of what passes for the left these days.
I've never met a person in the SP that has a name Bill M.
Bill M are you a member of the Socialist Party or are you just someone trying to have a go at the Party or what?
what excatly is happening are is the post attacking connolly or exposing the sp for doing so.
For the record we like the guy, along with lenin and a few others he kept the correct position on WW1.
starnge post though.
hey mags I love it when leftists claim they have nothing to do with the left makes me laugh. "those I've nothing to do with those, red action is completely different!"
And Justin connolly was a socialist the sp is putting forward socialist positions, sinn fein is a nationalist party that will never unite irelkand simply because catholic nationalism will never (and why should it) appeal to predestants.
Until SF breaks with nationalism there won't be a united ireland. The provisional campaign has already set the idea back at least a generation if not more.
Even the greats in red history recognise the difference between the nationalism of the oppressed and the nationalism of the oppressor.
Yer comparing apples to oranges, doing badly at it, end of story.
"While Connolly isn't an infallible guide - he wrote a fair bit of nonsense in his time - he still stands head and shoulders above most of what passes for the left these days."
i think JA put it in a nutshell there. we have a lot to learn from connolly & he stands head, shoulders & even hips above anything which has come since & attempts to pass as socialist theory.
however he had backward positions on religion, divorce, free love etc. he MAY have made too many concessions to nationalism but then hindsight is a perfect science.
he built the irish citizen army which lenin described as the "first red milita" (even though the anarchist captain jack white played a major role in the founding & training of the ICA).
the tragedy was that the best cadres of the ICA perished in 1916; hence the organisational paucity of connollys legacy.
The organisation which produced the piece above has nothing to do with the Socialist Party in Ireland. It was produced by the SPGB, Britain's oldest left wing group.
The SPGB belong to what is known as the "impossibilist" tradition, rejecting all reforms as a waste of time. An interesting bunch, but more than a little odd.
They do claim to have some supporters in Ireland, organised into the rather grandiosely titled "World Socialist Party" which has a couple of members in Belfast.
The Socialist Party most people on indymedia will have heard of is quite fond of Connolly.
I'm getting a wee bit peed off with people lacking the balls to use their real names (or at least first names).
I am not in Red Action. I am not a 'leftie'. I am a Republican and a Socialist. I hope this clears matters up to 'Red's' satisfaction.
Also, what are 'predestants'.
mags,
i fear you are being predantic.
pat
solidarity to Irish peoples movement for socialism y freedom. Sorry my english not good.
Viva James Connolly!
Viva Che Guevara!
En solidarity,
Jose Garcia
(Colombia)
Didn't I read a load of articles by you involved in a split with red action? must be mixing you up with someone else.
And I prefer not to use my real name on the internet if you don't mind.
As above, could someone expand on, or give links to info on, captain Jack?
ollie
some jack white links
1A biography of Irish anarchist, Captain Jack WhiteCaptain Jack White (1879-1946) I saw red; and when I see red I have got to get into the fight. I offered to speak for the strikers in Beresford Place, the open space outside the Transport Union Headquarters, Liberty Hall, and my offer was welcomed.
www.struggle.ws/anarchists/jackwhite/bio.html
-------------------------------------------
2Irish History: Radical/Left/Anarchist HistoryAn extensive collection of materials and links pertaining to Irish History.
wwwvms.utexas.edu/~jdana/history/radical.html
----------------------------------------
3 Spanish RevolutionThe Spanish Civil War: Anarchism in Action Author: Eddie Conlon Date: 1986 Published by the Workers Solidarity Movement Description: History of the political struggle in the Spanish Civil War and the constructive attempts by the peasants and workers
www.zachary.org/politics/spanish_revolution.shtml
No 'Red', you did not read any such articles.
mags
he might have read these articles in a parallell universe, subtly different from our own.
long live the fourth intergalactic!
pat
Connolly a nationalist and not a socialist, ever read a little dity entitled "Let's free Irelans", guess not. Ever wonder why Bertie and everother mainstream Party will sing the praises of Tone, Emmet and Pearse but avoid Connolly like the plauge. As Jem once said him self all we want is the world, his teachings, although not infalible, can help us along the way. Let's keep his red flag flying here.
Must be a very imaginative intergalatic universe, seeing as I never wrote any such articles.
Weird world some people live in all the same.
mags,
you didn't write the articles; the mags in the parallel universe did.
pat
Paul I dont think i ever read "Let's free Irelans"
Is this some paraell ireland???
I thought you were the Mags from AFA. Obviously not, forgive my mistake. AFA and some leftie group or other had a big sectarian scrap over nothing I thought you were her. Bye
red,
afa didn't have a scrap with any "leftie" group.
afa is a single issue campaign.
we have members who are leninists, anarchists, republicans, non-aligned socialists, community activists & just plain independents. no one group dominates afa. i wouldn't be a member if it did.
i was never a member of red action & i can't speak for them. but i will say that the people who were in red action are among the best socialists & class fighters i've ever met in 25 years of campaigning.
If anyone has anything to ask AFA please contact us at the above addresses.
I don't know why this discussion is taking place here, other than that someone appears to be nosey. While unwilling to explain who s/he is, the poster is more that willing to point at people and say they are 'AFA'. The implications of this are obvious and the motives of the poster seem very suspect.
If you want to know something that badly then approach AFA formally.
i answered the comment as a member of afa.
i don't know who posted the mail from afa here but i would point out that none of the information i gave out is "secret".
people are as entitled to make comments about afa here, just as they are about any other organisation.
if someone makes an inaccurate comment then i will respond to it.
its a pity you didn't respond to the attacks on afa under another thread "report on sats anti racist march". some very serious attacks were made on afa there far more so than any of the misconceptions which are held by the sp cdes.
pat c
My god you can dish it out but you can't take it can you? Slag off "trots all day as soon as you're slaged back you want formal letters!
despite what i've said above, you are rather inquisitive for someone who won't give out their first name.
although, with some people on indymedia who are prepared to publish peoples work addresses we've all go to be careful.
anyway lets get back to connolly.
the cork workers club brought a book of songs by connolly years ago. is it still in print? anyone know?
I'm not prepared to put my name on the internet, you had details about yourself published proving my point. As for being a spy, I'm sure the security forces know everything about you already without asking questions on the internet. And I could have just invented a name too.