our Forgotten North

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Wed Oct 16, 2002 18:15 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

Sadly, most people on the newsgroups view the North with something akin to indifference. The kind of person who'd do his utmost to fight for human rights in *insert name of foreign country here* but either through ignorance or indifference couldn't give a flying fuck about what's happening 90 miles up the road, is very prevalent here.

by Ruairi Wed Oct 16, 2002 20:31

hi Justin,

it is scary the silence on the North on IMC. I am in Canada right now and desperately trying to find a reliable news source on what is going on. The whole thing stinks and I obviously cannot rely on RTE or other conforming news relayers.

What info source do you recommend?

are you in a position to write and post articles or possibly a feature? I urge those is a position to do so to please fire out the news asap!!!!

You are sadly correct about the human rights global scenario verus our brothers and sisters up the road.... It's not a glamour issues I guess.

by Aidan Wed Oct 16, 2002 21:40

You're being unfair. The majority of posters on Indymedia Ireland are in the south, and rely on the same news sources as everyone else for news from the north.

It's not that everyone is indifferent it's just we're not in a position to provide alternative news from the north. Most of the posters who did post were the like of Mc Mean, and Cloda sparse posters, which were either a deluge of reprints from other news sources, or incoherant rants.

We've (IMC Ireland) spoken to media groups in the north and asked them to particapte and would love to see and IMC belfast, but it's out of our hands

by C. Wed Oct 16, 2002 22:26

This site is crap at reporting the north. People from the north are a bit suspicious of this site - Justin, could the SF video of RUC?PSNI standing by at the interfaces not been made available here? The people who put most of the material onto this site just don't have that. - Indymedia is what you make it.

Which is why it's good that there's an IMC happening in Cork. Hopefully one can be discussed at the grassroots and other fora in the north. Any help - ask on the IMC lists just cos thats where a lot of the people who are / have been involved in Dublin can be contacted. But go for it.

The north is something a lot of people in the south don't feel qualified to talk about. But just to annoy Justin I'll suggest the blanket to hear a view on whats going on.

by south of the border Thu Oct 17, 2002 00:46

The brits are on their way out, they are a spend and weak imperial force, wake up and smell the coffee boy, its the EU that you should become aware of and their 60,000 man rapid reaction force. What happens if Ireland wants to leave the EU? Is there an exit clause? Is there a veto in Brussels? Am I overtaxing the brains of americans, canadians and irsp followers? Time to leave it there for today then, tune in tomorrow for more free education.

by GreenPartyMike - Green Party USA Thu Oct 17, 2002 02:33 ollamhfaery at earthlink dot net

Thank God I finally see this issue being addressed. I am an American citizen but was raised in the North from 1969-84 with a period of time in Dublin. Quite frankly, I am ashamed of the people in the South. I remember, as a 10 year old child, having our area being attacked by loyalist thugs. The people in the South (insert Free State) did NOTHING. I remember Jack Lynch and his infamous "we will not stand idly by" speech, then you all proceeded to do just that.. STAND IDLY BY. The fact is, many in the Free State really dont give a tinkers damn about the suffering of the nationalist community. The "I'm all right Jack" mentality is very prevelant with Free Staters, though there are some very nobel exceptions. My god in heaven, there are DEATH SQUADS that are trained, funded and armed by the British Military Intelligence. In fact, at times I feel greater anger and a sense of betrayal at the larger population in the South then I do anger at the British. This kind of ambivilience to the suffering of others is one of the root causes of "terrorism". If you want to stop terrorism you must get to the CONDITIONS that create it. Or to put it another way, if you want peace, you must work for justice. if you do not actively do that, you have lost the right to denounce the terrorists. Plain and simple. Kinda like my favorite example... Bonehead from U2.. frigging reformist wanker......

by MG Thu Oct 17, 2002 08:54

I think it's true to say that a lot of Irish people are indifferent about the North of Ireland, but the majority of left-wingers and IMC users do, I believe, have an interest in the six counties.

The problem is that most Irish people know and understand what is happening in the North and don't need it explained to them. The unionists have spent years trying to undermine the agreement, the British have failed to demilitarise, the loyalist paramilitaries are engaged in a pogrom against Catholic civilians.

Then, when the UUP adopts a blatantly anti-agreement policy, when Trimble gets stroppy and issues his latest threat to resign, all the politicians in Ireland and Britain blame the IRA, which has been on constant ceasefire for five years.

Now, I, like most other Irish people, want to see a time when the IRA no longer exists. I would like to see the IRA ceasing all actions, including intelligence gathering, in the interests of peace. However, the peace process is a "process" and the IRA cannot be expected to act unilaterally while the British army is still infiltrating agents into loyalist groups, which are still killing Catholics.

Sinn Fein and the SDLP (both nationalist) are the only parties in the North that have continued to defend the agreement. The DUP and the UUP (both unionist) now oppose the agreement. The blame for the current crisis should lie with unionists, who have no interest in realistic democracy.

If Sinn Fein members are elected, they are entitled to sit in the Assembly and take their seats in the Executive, unless those elected are found guilty of criminal offences, in which case there should be a mechanism for exclusion. However, no Sinn Fein MLAs have been found guilty of criminal offences since 1998 and none are facing criminal charges.

If we in the Republic have to put up with scum like Michael Lowry in the Dail (he was elected and is entitled to take his seat - and rightly so), why can't the unionists just accept democracy and work towards creating a free and equal society in the North? The reason is because they have no interest in real democracy and, unfortunately, because of SF's gains in the recent election, Bertie has now moved into the anti-republican camp, blaming an organisation that has been on ceasefire for five years for the collapse in the peace process when loyalist gunmen are as active as ever.

by JJ McGaritty Thu Oct 17, 2002 10:16

F'ing Blueshirts are responsible. Sold out to the Sassanachs in '22 and its downhill since then.

by hs - sp Thu Oct 17, 2002 11:57

For some good info on the north look up the blanket and forthwrite magazines.

http://lark.phoblacht.net/

by the way Thu Oct 17, 2002 12:31

I think that most geo-political aware activists and commentators have not forgotton the role played by British forces alone in Sierra Leone.
This action helped to copperfasten "diamond" regulation for the "hyper-capitalist" "New World Order".
Their military intervention was followed by degulation by DeBeers (The primary controllor of diamonds was withdrawn from open trading in the same period).
And the current far from spent imperialist force speaks English haven´t you noticed?
Setting up an IMC in Belfast would be incredibly difficult no-one is saying that, but I really believe it is time to do so.

by maalox - the North Thu Oct 17, 2002 16:43 maalox at safe-mail dot net

Well, i have a few points to make and i know they won't go down so well with some of you but what the hell.

1) Belfast Indymedia
This gets brought up every single week by someone, but noone has actually found the time or energy to get it off the ground yet. It would be somewhat tricky- the braindead sectarian junk posted here would be magnified a thousand times and a LOT of editorial work would be needed to stop it degenerating into simply another avenue for loyalists/republicans to blame those bloddy taigs/huns for every social and environmental problem on the planet. Indymedia is intended to have a bit of an anti-capitalist slant, not an anti-next-door-neighbour agenda. At the minute, the main alt. media output in Belfast is Northern Visions Radio (100.6 FM) broadcasting Agitate FM (direct action/anarchist), All Women FM (Feminist), and a number of emerging other projects like LGB and ecological programs.

Independant media in the north is especially important since the mainstream media won't touch any story unless some sectarian politician has stuck their puffy, well paid face into it. I personally would love to have an indymedia up here, but the few of us interested can't spend all their lives on it. Help.

2. "The problem is that most Irish people know and understand what is happening in the North and don't need it explained to them."

Um, in my experience that's not exactly true. One of the things that pisses me off the most while hitching down south are the inevitable experts, usually from Kilkenny or Offaly or somewhere that can tell me exactly what's going wrong in my home town, exactly how oppressed/evil/stupid the people on my street are etc. etc. and then, when asked, they admit they've never even set foot over the border.

People living in parts of the north don't understand what's going down in other areas (that's part of the problem by the way), so i don't see how a few corporate media articles copied off the piss-poor northern papers coupled with some romantic, cosy and outdated republican rhetoric should give you such a clearer view than those of us who have to try to get real issues off the ground with this going on around us every day.

3. Don't mention the War.

We're sick of the "sity-ation" being the only topic of dicussion up here. Every twist and turn, every pathetic, predictable soundbite, every "crisis" the politicos manage to manufacture is reported to death in the official media. The troubles are effectively the only story allowed in the media up here (via self-censorship, read some Chomsky if this confuses you), and the version that is allowed is the official government line plus anything that anybody in a Party says.

So what should we do? Repeat ad nauseum what you see elsewhere? Report every petrol bomb, and let it get commented on ad infinitum by every bored fuckwit with the same old sectarian mindset? No thanks, we get enough of that at home.

by Harry Pollitt Fri Oct 18, 2002 10:49

I agree so much with what was just posted above by Maalox, I just had to post to say so.

by blind man Fri Oct 18, 2002 22:14

I am sure these people will still be talking about the 'brits' in a few years time when the EU has completely taken us over.