Exchange on Services and Article 133 in Dail Yesterday between Joe Higgins/Taoiseach/Ruairi Quinn -

national | miscellaneous | news report

Thursday October 17, 2002 10:54

by Article 133 Information Group

Taoiseach accuses Opponent of raising white elephant

(Must have white elephants on his mind these days)

Full text of exchange between An Taoiseach and Joe Higgins TD:

The Taoiseach: On number one in regard to Article 133 the Deputy's suggestion is totally untrue. Article 133 of the Treaty of the European Union provides the legal basis and procedure for the EU to engage in international trade negotiations. The Nice treaty proposes to amend the article to provide that decisions on EU participation in these negotiations are taken in the same way as decisions are taken on EU internal rules on a range of issues. This amendment is logical, particularly following enlargement. It will improve the effective of EU participation in trade negotiations without diminishing member states' involvement in them. It is particularly relevant
in relation to the ongoing multilateral negotiations in the World Trade
Organisation on the further liberalisation of world trade in goods and services. The suggestion, which Deputy Higgins made and has made outside this House, that the Nice treaty's provisions could force the privatisation of Irish public services such as health and education, the two he mentioned-----

Mr. J. Higgins: I did not say that. The Taoiseach has misquoted me.

Mr. Naughten: Sewage and water.

Mr. Kenny: Deputy Higgins was speaking absolute rubbish.

Mr. J. Higgins: I said water and post offices.

The Taoiseach: -----or in respect of any other service via the World
Trade Organisation is totally incorrect. The WTO's general agreement on trade expressly provides that all WTO members can legitimately regulate and economic and non-economic sectors within their territory to guarantee the achievement of public objectives. That could not be clearer. Will the Deputy put an end to that bloody red herring? Will he do that?

Mr. J. Higgins: Will the Taoiseach agree-----

The Taoiseach: I quoted from what the Deputy said.

An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Higgins, allow the Taoiseach to continue.

Mr. J. Higgins: -----that the negotiations can extend to public services?

An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Higgins had an opportunity to put his questions. I ask him to resume his seat.

Mr. Quinn: It does not.
Mr. J. Higgins: It does.
The Taoiseach: It does not. The Deputy is an intelligent person. The
agreement expressly provides that all WTO members can legitimately regulate economic and non-economic sectors within their own territory. That means within one's own country. That means here.

Mr. J. Higgins: Can public services be included in the negotiations?

An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Higgins, allow the Taoiseach to continue.
The Deputy was afforded the courtesy of putting questions without interruption.

The Taoiseach: The Deputy knows that is a white elephant. He should stop raising it. On the second issue----

Mr. Quinn: I think the Taoiseach meant to say "a red herring".

The Taoiseach: What did I say?

Mr. Quinn: A white elephant.

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Comments (7 of 7)

Re: Comment

by Anarchist Viewpoint

Thu Oct 17, 2002 11:39

What this exchange shows is that the fraud known as Parliamentary Democracy whereby politicians
are elected to represent us and are expected to work on our behalf, in return for us giving up
political power is clearly not working.

The Taoisearch, Quinn and the Ceann Comhairle who have all vested interest in NOT rocking their
elitist boat that they share with the vested interests behind the WTO, used a combination of lies
and interruptions to block Joe Higgins from making his points and exposing what Article 133 of the
NICE treaty does in fact allow -which is the wholesale sell off our all our services.

I will concede that the comment that it does not (yet) allow for the privatisation of health and
education. But this clause was clearly put in, because they knew this was the rock, that NICE would
flounder on. You can be sure that if the NICE treaty goes through, rapid 'progress' will be made in
breaching this barrier too and there will be no referendum over that one.

While Joe Higgins has made considerable effort and is clearly working hard for the wishes of the vast
majority, it should be clear now that all of the mainstream parties are in collusion with the forces
of the current form of Capitalism, which in the last 10 years has returned to it's roots of robber-baron
capitalism. The Dail/Parliament is a rubber stamp institute and the real power now lies with the likes
of the WTO and other undemocratic and unelected institutions.

Article 133.

by A confused voter.

Thu Oct 17, 2002 11:55

What exactly does "regulation of all economic and non-economic sectors" mean?

Which of these categories do water, postal services, energy, etc fall under?

Would a pro-privatisation party like the PDs actually take advantage of this apparent opt-out, or would it just simply go along with the agenda of the WTO?

Does regulation mean non-privatisation, or does it mean regulation of the type currently in force in the Irish telecommunications industry, where privatisation was enforced, but the private companies still have to obey a government regulator?

What exactly does the "achievement of public objectives" mean?

Does it mean that it will be illegal for Ireland to regulate economic and non-economic sectors for ideological reasons? Is "public objectives" the only excuse allowed?

If the EC signs GATS on behalf of the EU, does the whole Union have to act together in all measures ("uniformity of liberalisation"), or can individual member states quote "the achievement of public objectives" and opt out of certain privatisation commitments?

I'm actually more confused this time than I was in June 2001.

No to Nice.
No to Bertie.
No to the bastardisation of the English language by puppet politicians in the pay of IBEC and corrupt scumbag builders.

MAGGIE HARNEY MARY THATCHER MAGGIE HARNEY MARY THATCHER-----

by oswalddefenselawyer

Thu Oct 17, 2002 13:31

To the old harry krishna tune . . . .

Anarchist criticism is wrong

by OK - SP

Thu Oct 17, 2002 18:47

I agree with the anarchist when he says that there are limitations in parliamentry 'democracy'. Over the past 5 years Joe Higgins has been blocked, suspended etc.

However the point is that the Socialist Party uses it's Dáil representation as a platform to get our politics out and to organise the fightback of ordinary people.

We in the Socialist Party hold no illusions in the Dáil. It's the workers movement that will take power and not a small bunch of 166 men and women in suits sitting in a nice building on Kildare Street.

Running for election and getting elected raises the profile of socialism and our ideas. When elected we have consistantly attempted to mobilise working people against capitalism.

Alan Dukes v Joe Higgins....tonight

Thu Oct 17, 2002 18:51

Alan Dukes (ex FG leader) V Joe Higgins TD (Socialist Party)

Tonight in Wynnes Hotel Dukes and Joe will debate the nice treaty.

Wynn's hotel, Abbey Street, 8pm, Thursday 17th

read bertie's lips

by doheochai - Socialist Party

Thu Oct 17, 2002 21:13

The Taoiseach: The WTO's general agreement on trade expressly provides that all WTO members can legitimately regulate and economic and non-economic sectors within their territory to guarantee the achievement of public objectives.

Comment:
The Nice Treaty allows the European Commission to negotiate on behalf of the whole EU. Individual members cannot negotiate separately and therefore must abide by the QMV decision on the Council of Ministers following completion of negotiations.

The 'protected sectors' and where the people get their say

by C.

Fri Oct 18, 2002 01:49

See I think all this stuff is worse than is being presented.

When you draw up a contract you put in your @don't know if we'll get away with it but we'll surely try@ clauses.

The derogation is open to be revisiteed. There is no definition in Europe for what constitutes 'health, education or audio-visual' services. When they bring mcD into the canteen this will be QMV ancillary services not education or health. If you take out the ancillary services there's not a lot left - owning the buildings?

On the council of ministers - my take on reading the treaty and loads of other shite so I can understand some of the treaty, is that they get to decide (by qmv) if something is against the rules and regs of the EU. But not if we sign up to GATS and TRIPS. That is with the commission - cos they sign it at the ceremony not subject to parliamentary approval. So we will besigned up to the agreements without any chance to tell someone that we, as a people, don't want this agreement.

So, unless everybody hassles the fuck out of their granny this will be a big one to lose, and make future struggles much harder.

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Exchange on Services and Article 133 in Dail Yesterday between Joe Higgins/Taoiseach/Ruairi Quinn -

Comments (7 of 7)