RUC Abusing Children by Coercing Them to Become Informers

by Thom Fool Mon Nov 11, 2002 13:41

The wonderful Irony of the INLA's apologists talking about the UN convention of rights.

Seeing as the INLA see themselves not as a terrorist organisation but as a army at war. When arrested demanding to be treated as prisoners of war, maybe someone should give them a copy of the Geneva convention to cast an eye over.

Seeing as they like to see themselves as an army the bits about

Prisoners of war.

Civilian targets.

Torture.

Should be looked up......

Oh and Danielle, it's been a few days have you had a jar with your murdering bastard mates and found out how they lost their toy guns?

We're dying to know.....

by Doubtful Tomas Sat Nov 09, 2002 18:49

You can think of several ways can you?

Well bully for you. Of course you can think of several ways he found out about it. Alternatively you could ask your chums in the INLA exactly how this kid found out about it.

They're the INLA and if the INLA are so fucking stupid that they can let a 13yo boy with dimished mental capacity stumble accidently over a arms dump well then the INLA A) so careless they deserve to lose the guns B) putting children at risk. I doubt the dump would be under 24 guard, (because it's a secret dump and best not draw attention to it) so you're bloody lucky this kid drew attention to it, rather than go see what he could nick.

Alternatively the kid was exposed to the dump through friends or family, involved in INLA. Maybe the weapons where in a place this kid had access to.

Pat said "i also think armed groups should be accountable to the communities they claim to represent (that also holds for the ira) and should take their lead from political organisations."

It's a sound principle. It doesn't happen. How many members of the INLA have been reprimanded over this? Or over "over zealous" puinishment beatings that have left kids crippled. Or bombs that killed the wrong targets? It's bullshit these people are answerable only to themselves. At least the PSNI are launching an investigation publically. Ever see the INLA do that?

I re-read the press release, what was that about the INLA deciding that because of his dimished mental state they'd not puinish him. So if he'd been fifteen and had his wits about him he'd have got a kneecapping?

Thats a threat, they're saying basically, "kids this one got off lucky, but if you're squelling to the peelers, run off to the priest and let him know, cause if we find ya, it's be a baseball bat with nails in it".

The cops knew about this kid cause of his joy riding, terrorists on both sides have beaten joy riders. What gives them the right to issue summary beatens to which they are not held accountable for?

The INLA expressing concern for this kids welfare is a fucking joke. This is about sealing lips, and the simple fact that they couldn't bury this squeler in a bog somewhere (Think of the PR) has forced Danielle to do their dirty work for them.

Don't try and twist what I say the cynical use of this kid by the PSNI was evil, and deserves to be brought to justice. But there is a system in place a flawed stupid system, but a system none the less. The INLA are answerable to no one. And have played a part in this. They're trying to spin this story around to make them the good guys. Which is fucking shite.

by cleo mcwilliams Fri Nov 08, 2002 19:01

the cynical manipulation and exploitation of children by useless ineffective callous PSNI twats, getting children to do the work of grown paid, PSNI men/women is indeed a serious breach of Children's human rights.This child was used by by cynical cushy PSNI grown ups, too stupid, scared and incompetent to do the job themselves. This shows the backward mentality of the PSNI, sneaky, conniving, cowardly, snobby hoity toity authortarian PSNI jocks, using a vunerable working class child to do their dirty work. which all goes to show why Republicans could never support the PSNI in its present form.

by Standard Retort Fri Nov 08, 2002 14:08

Write a summary! Post a link!

by Ray Fri Nov 08, 2002 14:05

But it doesn't really add anything to the existing stories on the newswire, and there is no reason whatsoever why it couldn't have been added as a comment to the existing article.
By that logic, if the IRSP issue a slightly rejigged press release today, tomorrow, and every day next week then it would be okay for all of those to be posted here too.
Monopolising the newswire shows a fundamental disrespect for the other people using it.

by pat c Fri Nov 08, 2002 11:56

sorry for the delay in getting back 2 u dave. this pesky job...

anyway u still don't go into any detail as to why you hate the irsp. i'd have disagreements with some of their policies. i think
they are too leninist.

i also think armed groups should be accountable to the communities they claim to represent (that also holds for the ira) and should take their lead from political organisations.

but there is also the real world. at present the arms held by republicans are the only things that stops loyalists from ethnically cleansing catholics on a bosnian scale.

the majority of the ruc/psni dont want to protect nationalist areas. even those that do (your average coppers) , are not given the state support to do so. they cant even protect themselves ; over the last few years, 200 ruc/psni families have been burnt out/forced to move.

it was silly of me to refer to daithi as david. danielle wasn't responsible for that.

but as for the others... itsyet more two-faced hypocrisy. they'd stab you in the back & then demand that you be arrested for carrying a concealed weapon.

1.armed ruc/psni forced the boy to become an informer.
2.armed ruc/psni met with him on 6 occasions to collect information.
3.if it wasnt for the armed ruc/psni intimidation, the boy would never have sought info regarding arms.
4.it was the actions of armed ruc/psni which brought this boy into contact with the inla cache.

ah, i'm casting pearls before swine. logic never has any effect on these people.

by Danielle Ni Dhighe - Irish Republican Socialist Movement Fri Nov 08, 2002 02:44 danielle at irsm dot org

"I can't call you Daniel?"

Well, no, it isn't my name after all.

"Tell us, how did a 13 year old boy of dimished mental capacity gain knowledge of a INLA arms dump?"

I can think of several ways that don't imply he was given access to it. Here's one: he saw activity in a certain location and simply reported what he saw. The Ardoyne isn't exactly remote farmland.

by My bad Fri Nov 08, 2002 02:04

Can call Daithí, David; I can't call you Daniel?

Doesn't wander way from the fact you're avoiding the thrust of the debate.

Tell us, how did a 13 year old boy of dimished mental capacity gain knowledge of a INLA arms dump?

by Danielle Ni Dhighe - Irish Republican Socialist Movement Fri Nov 08, 2002 02:01 danielle at irsm dot org

...Daniel?

by Doubtful Thomas Fri Nov 08, 2002 01:45

Daniel,

Who says he had access to weapons?

Well lets see, it was in a built up area, he knew the weapons where the weapons where hidden.

We can assume that either that he knew where the weapons where and that they where under guard (unlikely the existance of a weapons stash would be signposted by guards) or that is was possible he might have access to weapons.

So here's the situation. The INLA are outraged by the fact that a child of diminished mental capaicty with a criminal background (this is taken from their press releases) is used as an informer. But see nothing wrong with the fact that this child was given access to these weapons. (and Daniel until you give us an explainition of how the kid got knowledge of this we must assume that it was easy access through a friend or family, it's unlike that he stumbled across it)

Only a cynic would look at the outrage of the INLA ranting about child abuse and wonder why are an organistion who has already allowed a child access to weapons be so suddenly concerned with the kids welfare.

Only a cynic or a loyalist sympathise would think that the INLA would be interested in using this incident to attack the RUC/PSNI and deflect attention from the fact that a kid from their area was in a position to have knowledge of weapons.

Only a cynic would believe that this was poly by the INLA and their apologists to move the focus from the fact that they had weapons and children were aware of their location, onto the PSNI and their behaviour.

This should not be taken as me approving of the PSNI tactic. It is loathsome and contemptable. But the INLA and their apologists running out in outrage is beyond laughable, suggesting that this situation is uttterly the establishments fault and demanding justice, when they have their own part to play.

I find it beyond laughable that groups like the INLA will stand up and talk about childrens rights. By their own admission this child was already a law breaker a joyrider, we've seen how the IRA and the INLA deal with petty crimes. Punishment beatings. Hardly progressive social policy.

by Dave D Thu Nov 07, 2002 20:55

Hi Pat, hope all's is well, good to see your still managing to hold down the day job

Just to add my enlightened reactionary voice to the debate

For the record, I have absolutely cart loads against the IRSP and (in my view) they should disband the scummy blood-thirsty INLA terrorist outfit and think about contributing something worthwile to Irish life..helping grannies accross the road would be a start. They should leave politics to people who actually care about their neighbours, rather that those trying to knee cap them.

by MG Thu Nov 07, 2002 20:16

I must say I was expecting a tirade of abuse, but hey, I was wrong.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that the IRSP is just one small political party and that if ALL political parties posted ALL their press releases here, this site would be filled with the stuff.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but indymedia is supposed to be a NEWS site. I personally think the story about the 13-year-old informer is very important, but it was already posted yesterday (I think) and just because someone in the IRSP office wrote a new press release today doesn't mean that the story is new.

For the record, I have absolutely nothing against the IRSP and (in my view) they have every right to contribute to this site.

by R Ascal Thu Nov 07, 2002 20:01

That allowing people with diminished mental capacity to access INLA arms dumps is the only way their members can get at the weapons.

by Danielle Ni Dhighe - Irish Republican Socialist Movement Thu Nov 07, 2002 19:48 danielle at irsm dot org

"The INLA have allowed a child with dimished mental capacity access to weapons."

Who said he had access to weapons?

by pat c Thu Nov 07, 2002 18:54

i have no idea how the kid found out about the weapons. i also tmade it clear that i thought no kids should be exposed to weapons. it certainly looks as if the inla were careless in some way if a child like this was able to uncover such info.

i do know that the ruc/psni put the kid at risk by recruiting him as an informer.

by dodgy dealings Thu Nov 07, 2002 18:34

If anyone is being two faced here Pat it's you and the INLA.

I agree that the majority of violence is state violence.

Does that make it okay for the INLA to expose a child to weapons?

No it does not.

So ranting "State Violence is worse" is pointless yes it is worse, but saying "Other people are commiting worse crimes, so my little crime is okay".

It is two faced for the INLA and their apologists to now suddenly take great care and concern for this child after what they've done.

by pat c Thu Nov 07, 2002 18:29

i've no idea as to how the kid got to know where the arms dump was.

i dont think any kids should be exposed to arms. my point remains valid: throughout the world, it is state forces which in the main expose kids to weapons.

yet another example of the 2 faced indymedia liberals

by dodgy dealings Thu Nov 07, 2002 18:13

Avoiding the question there Pat.

The INLA have allowed a child with dimished mental capacity access to weapons.

But you're ignoring that and pontificating about state violence. How can the INLA make claims about "child abuse" when they're giving children access to weapons?

by Danielle Ni Dhighe - Irish Republican Socialist Movement Thu Nov 07, 2002 18:12 danielle at irsm dot org

"The Green Party issues several press releases every day. Should they all be published here?"

Sure, why not?

by patc Thu Nov 07, 2002 18:09

i already agreed with blisset not to use west brit.

anyway whos stopping the greens from posting their press releases?

also most of the time mg makes sense.

by pat c Thu Nov 07, 2002 18:06

"Do they not feel that exposing children to guns, and putting the in the position that they might gain access to the weapons isn't a form of child abuse? And incredibly dangerous?"

its the state forces who constantly expose children to guns.

even down south, you see jeep loads of armed soldiers guarding securitytrucks.

by Hmmm Thu Nov 07, 2002 17:53

That the INLA are so concerned for the this child who they admit he had knowledge about the whereabouts of weapons cache.

Do they not feel that exposing children to guns, and putting the in the position that they might gain access to the weapons isn't a form of child abuse? And incredibly dangerous?

No cause only a west brit would think like that.

by MG Thu Nov 07, 2002 17:39

The Green Party issues several press releases every day. Should they all be published here?

(PS - I look forward to being abused by Pat. By the way, I'm not a west Brit, so you'll have to find some other pejoratives)

by Danielle Ni Dhighe - Irish Republican Socialist Movement Thu Nov 07, 2002 17:35 danielle at irsm dot org

As Pat said, this is a new press release dated today - it hasn't been posted here before.

by pat c Thu Nov 07, 2002 17:22

this is a new press release issued today.

by Ray Thu Nov 07, 2002 16:39

The story pushed off the front page by this article about the RUC using child informers was, you guessed it, an article about the RUC using child informers. You couldn't make it up.

by Ray Thu Nov 07, 2002 16:34

Don't repeat posts - it pushes other news off the front page.