wsm meeting

by Anarcho hater Fri Nov 08, 2002 16:44

I was at one of those anarchist meetings before. I'll describe what they are like.

A load of hippy krusty types sitting aound in a circle cross-legged smoking canabis. (Bcause they are anarchists they sit in a circle for some reason)

The discussion isnt that great as most of them have not prepared properly for some debate. That would be telling others what to do. Know that I come to think of it there was no chairman, they all just spoke randomly when something came into their heads. Having a chair is against anarchy.

Having proper organisation for a meeting is against Anarchy. I'd say they meeting they organise here will not have a room booked as giving someone the task of booking a room is like appointing a dreaded 'leader'.

Why dont you anarchist fucks get jobs and learn that anarchy wont work. You can barely get your arses out of your beds in the morning never mind successfully carry out an anarchist transformation of society.

by Ray Fri Nov 08, 2002 16:57

And you know that Workers Solidarity, the newspaper with a circulation of 6,000? That's produced by the special branch. All the WSM members are paid to disrupt the left, but its okay - they're too stoned to remember. It was only last week that they got around to doing something about the Nice referendum.

by IMC Dalek Fri Nov 08, 2002 17:10

'It was only last week that they got around to doing something about the Nice referendum'

Yeah, but I got them a loan of the Tardis so they were able to travel back through time and form LAN.

by iosaf Sat Nov 09, 2002 17:58

there are 7 million squatters in Europe who daily occupy social and living space.
Yesterday the lawyers of the University of Barcelona agreed that the recent incarceration of 4 Valencian anarchists and squatters is illegal and in breach of human right legislation.
There are over a hundred radio stations broadcasting free and uncensored material in the 125 official regions of the European Union.
There are more beyond the EU to the east broadcasting on the old 65-90mhz FM waveband.
These are anarchist collectives.
Most anarchists believe that "having a job" "to pay the mortage / pension" is a waste of talent and ability and life, thus many of the anarchists argue ways of coming together to surpass the quotidien need of money and create a non-money enviroment. They do this seeking to establish a citizen global justice wage based on equal division of global GDP. Anarchists have throughout history taken part in greater decision making by state institutions even though their politics is against such institutions.
They have taken part during times of acute crises, such as 1936 this week when the four elected anarchists to the republican government of Catalúnya accepted posts as ministers and opposed on behalf of the anarchist assemblies of Spain the militarising of the militias.
It is due to the slightly dismissive attitude of marxist historians such as Hobb that anarcho.syndicalism has been treated so shabbily by others of the left and alternative political spectrum.
Anarcho-syndicalists still play roles in labour movement and trade disputes today witness the very large anarcho-syndicalist groupings in Spain and Italy.
And finally of the eight times that international social forums or protest have been covered by live satelite links it was anarchists who organised the same.
Anarchists believe that much of bad scientific speculation has married bad capitalist speculation and thus take an interest in primitivism as a facet of nomadic beliefs.
IF you´re smart enough to argue with me then do anarchoi-hater.

by iosaf (slight return to correct himself) - reclaim the streets & genome Sat Nov 09, 2002 18:59 iosaf at email dot com barcelona

I correct myself I had meant to write Eric Hobsbawm, good historian of the left whose mass produced histories are very popular with armchair intellectuals.
Questions relating to Anarchist beliefs and types can be answered at the infoshop.org website
I leave this for english speakers.
I happen to be of the opinion though that anarchy is a european tradition. Yes I know that the black flag of autonomy was first raised by striking american workers, however the first communitities to organise /dis-organise themselves and their agriculture were in Europe.
For the moment I´ll not treat upon the economic anomoly which were the island communities of the Blaskets and Hebrides at the turn of the nineteenth century, I´m sure there are other writers in Ireland who would better treat on them, my interest is the history of anarchy and anarcho-syndicalism in the Catalan speaking regions. A history of anarchism working for more than 150 years Anarcho-hater. A history of political and social belief that has proved its resilience and worth through war and persecution and beyond the garotte.
Anarcho-hater if you think that young Irish anarchists waste time by sitting in circles and smoking dope, you probably think all Irish youth do so, for many of them do smoke dope and many sit in circles.
And if tomorrow the 7 million squatters end "direct action" to meet a universally held principle (housing), does anarcho-hater think the beurocracies of the european cities shall meet the housing crises?
Primitivism has much to offer modern 21st century anarchists in their search for a sustainable global system. It was I seem to rememer Deleuze and Guatarri in their joint doctoral thesis who argued that nomads being exterior to state apparata lend...
...well anarcho-hater you probably are familiar with that particular thesis no?

by ray Sat Nov 09, 2002 20:07

this isn't news this is an advertisment for a political meeting, (and a regular one at that) ray where are you?

by Ray Mon Nov 11, 2002 10:58

The SWP and SP have advertised meetings on here before, without a word of complaint from me. There's a difference between a political meeting and a commercial enterprise, and I can see that difference even if you can't.

by pat c Mon Nov 11, 2002 12:50

its good that ray can see the difference between a political event & a commercial enterprise.

its a pity that one of his imc colleagues did not have the same level of insight when it came to the shelley book.

by Ray Mon Nov 11, 2002 13:24

The Shelley book that's for sale, whose author and publisher hope to make a profit on the enterprise? It wasn't being sold as a fundraiser for a political campaign, so as far as I'm concerned a message saying 'buy this book' is advertising, and the editor who forced the removal of the ISBN and other details was doing the right thing.

Of course, if you disagree with that, you're free to join the administrative lists or come along to a meeting and express your opinion. If you'd rather exclude yourself from debate that's up to you, but it makes little sense to then start moaning about how much you're being oppressed.

by pat c Mon Nov 11, 2002 14:19

ray doesn't really believe the shelley book launch was a commercial event. hes incapable of admitting hes wrong about anything.

what a sad & sorry degeneration in rays politics. all thnks to the priethood.

it now doesn't seem at all odd to ray (an anarchist?) that imc should not be liable to outside criticism.

you only have the right to criticise imc if you are involved. there is no salvation for those outside of imc.

this leninist style preaching shows just how far ray has sunk.

by IMC Dalek Mon Nov 11, 2002 17:22

Is Ray going to be at this meeting? Hes not making it sound attractive if hes still representative of WSM thinking.

by Ray Mon Nov 11, 2002 18:07

- ray doesn't really believe the shelley book launch was a commercial event. hes incapable of admitting hes wrong about anything.

Pat, if you'd spend that psychic energy predicting this weeks winning Lotto numbers you'd have enough money to set up your own indymedia. Or you could buy all those Shelley books, and organise a reading at which they'll be given away. _That_ would be a non-commercial event.

- it now doesn't seem at all odd to ray (an anarchist?) that imc should not be liable to outside criticism.
you only have the right to criticise imc if you are involved.

Not at all. You have every right to criticise IMC. Its just a bit pathetic that you run screaming from any chance to make it better. You'll complain night and day about how terrible IMC is, how awful the editorial policy is, how everyone involved is a West Brit (or is it southern loyalist now?), how I've been brainwashed, and oh! the horrors left unspoken...
If its so bad, why not try to make it better?
If its broken, why not try to fix it?

If you went to a meeting your vote would count for exactly as much as mine. If you make a suggestion on the mailing lists, that suggestion would carry exactly as much weight as any of mine. And there's no obligation - you don't have to agree to any position papers, pay any subs, sign any membership forms, compromise your politics in any way at all. All you have to do is put your money where your mouth is.

But you're happier wandering around outside with your 'the end of the IMC is nigh' sandwich board.

- there is no salvation for those outside of imc.

You remind me of the cliche of the 'Irish mother'. "You go out and enjoy yourself, don't worry about me. I'm happy sitting here, in the dark, on my own, in the cold. Don't worry about me..." I know the role of misunderstood outsider can be fine and dramatic, but it doesn't work when the door in front of you is wide open. After a while it becomes obvious that you actually prefer to be the hurler in the ditch, because if you never do anything, you can never be criticised for doing anything wrong.

But by all means, keep railing against the IMC for all its terrible decisions. Keep telling us how we're doing everything wrong, how it wasn't like that in your day, that if we were real socialists we'd do it completely differently. You seem to be enjoying it, and there's certainly no law against wasting your time...

(Oh, and IMC Dalek, I won't be at the WSM meeting tonight, so you needn't be afraid. Go along yourself - you might learn something...)

by pat c Mon Nov 11, 2002 18:58

the same rant & ramble time after time. if you really believe that the book launch was commercial then you truly are a fuckwit.
i think it more likely stems from your inability to accept ypu might ever be wrong.

i never called u a w... b.. so how along are u going 2 go on about that one?

good old ray, when he doesn't have anything 2 say he'll always throw in a red herring (the stocks must be depleted by now, time for the eu to declare a moratorium)

i wonder if any member of the wsm thinks that imc were justified in censoring the launch of the shelly book?

anyway its really pathetic to see someone who used to be an anarchist defending the dictatorship of the middle class.

outside of imc there is no salvation?

gee ray, even the capitalist press accept criticism from the outside.

obviously though you are working to sound anarchist principles. perhaps right wing libertarian?

by IMC Dalek Mon Nov 11, 2002 19:45

Deserve some respect, Ray does not.

What kind of Libertarian would suggest the launching of a limited print run book was commercial?

I suppose the author is going to retire to the Bahamas on the proceeds?

I thought the WSM was against this type of sectarian crap. But since Ray thinks I will learn something at the meeting (that will back up censorship?), I must have been mistaken.

I think Ultimate Force sounds more attractive.

by Ray Tue Nov 12, 2002 11:25

IMC Dalek, as I've repeated over and over again, I'm no longer a member of the WSM. If you want to know what they think about the Shelly post, go and ask them.

Pat, you've made so many cogent points I just don't know where to start replying to them. But then it doesn't really matter, because whatever I say you'll just keep repeating those points again, won't you? Hey, as long as you're enjoying yourself, who am I to criticise you?

by Splitter Tue Nov 12, 2002 17:38

Is there a big split in the WSM? I'll bet you're afraid to answer this question Ray!

by IMC Dalek Wed Nov 13, 2002 12:40

- What kind of Libertarian would suggest the launching of a limited print run book was commercial?

I suppose the author is going to retire to the Bahamas on the proceeds? -

Perhaps Ray would answer it.

by Ray Wed Nov 13, 2002 16:42

As I've pointed out before, it wasn't over political differences, I simply had other demands on my time and less energy available for political activity. The WSM (rightly, in my opinion) expect a certain level of activity from members, and I didn't feel I could meet that level. This is not a split, unless you think one person leaving a group constitutes a split.

As for IMC Dalek, aren't you getting tired of clutching at straws? All commercially produced books have a limited print run - if that print run sells out, then they print some more. My last year's wages weren't enough for me to retire to the Bahamas - that doesn't mean my job is not a commercial activity.

This is getting more than a little pathetic. Its in the past guys. See a grief counsellor, talk to a priest, commune with the ghost of Marx, go and get pissed with Pat - whatever it takes, you really need to get on with your life, you know? Sitting there whining isn't going to bring your puppy back.