irish Traitors joining the british army

by Finbar Macintosh Thu Nov 14, 2002 22:47

Many people in this country identify with Britain as their families originated there, this doesn't deminish their Irishness, any more than an Irish-American's affection for Ireland deminishes their American-ness.

Joining the British Army doesn't make you a traitor as Ireland is not at war with Britain.

by Mags Thu Nov 14, 2002 23:24

Obviously not. Silly me for believing they occupy one fifth of our country.

by Dave Thu Nov 14, 2002 23:42

I don’t think that participation in any imperialist army is anything to be proud of. The various colonial campaigns of the British army post the Second World War are a classic example. The brutal war waged against the Vietnamese people, the Kuwait “freedom struggle” one of whose “highlights” was the massacre on the Basra road. The training of Suharto’s forces who perpetrated the genocide in East Timor. Some of the individuals interviewed on the programme were simply lumpen elements, one of whom openly stated that he fought for the brits because they paid him.

by bamyasi inc. Fri Nov 15, 2002 01:10

HEY RENEGADE, RECKON U WATCH TOO MUCH TELEVISION!

by Brian Fri Nov 15, 2002 02:19

unless your fighting for your right to exist, unless the ruling class threatens your destruction, but then only militia's are necessary, armies are mans greatest crime to himself, barbaric slavery of blood

by Paddy Fri Nov 15, 2002 04:30 paddy69ok at hotmail dot com

Some young working class men just want to be soldiers. The British Army is one of the best for training and adventure, so why shouldn't they join? It's better than the one we've got here, that's for sure.

by Finbar Macintosh Fri Nov 15, 2002 06:58

So it seems that Ireland's Indymedia is being co-opted by the nationalist movement. The LA Indymedia (la.indymedia.org) was co-opted by various anti-jewish groups, which totally destroyed their credibility. Do you people want Indymedia to be a source of truth, or a source of propaganda?

by silo Fri Nov 15, 2002 11:13

Agree with what Finbar said. This is nationalist rubbish.

by pat c Fri Nov 15, 2002 12:11

so, the pacificists & those who oppose british (& US)imperialism are nationalists? i think not.

people join armies to kill people. thats what you are supporting when you support the british army.

those who join the crown forces are mercenaries.

by iosaf Fri Nov 15, 2002 12:44

blackguard [contracted as blaggard] term of abuse, based on name of Irish mercenaries employed in European wars from the 15th century onwards. Irish men accepted payment from various crowns in Europe including English, Scottish, laterly British, French, Swedish, Austro-Hungarian and Spanish (Castille and Aragon). Irish men also served in the French revolutionary armies, many staying with the French imperial "grande armee" and with both sides in the Spanish civil war, Irish men joined the internationalist brigades fighting with communist and socialist brigades yet more with the anarchist militias, a significant contribution was also made by Irish blueshirts to the carlist and falangists sides fighting under the direction of Franco for fascism. Of the Irish men who took part in the war to save the Spanish republic and its incorporated autonomies of Catalúna and Euskerra it is worthy of comment that only those fighting on the fascist side returned to a "welcome" in Ireland.
To accept a uniform is to accept the state contrived suspension of rights, one´s own rights and autonomy and the rights of others to peaceful life and existance. It was in recognition of this that the four anarchist ministers of the 1936 Spanish republic called for the non-incorporation of the militias in the Republican military, it stood completely against the principles of self based autonomy.
Irish men have never been conscripted into a British or English army, therefore those who fought in the 1914-1918 conflict and the 1939-1945 conflict did so at their own wish, even though economic considerations may have precipated that decision, Irish women benefited from the crown income for soldiers who fought in the 1914-1918 imperialist conflict.
To accept a uniform and to accept the order to fight is to enter into an immoral state, to ccept that murder or deliberate and afore considered harm to another (generally man) is acceptable.
This as a regular contributor to indmedia Mr Zubatty [he´s almost always deleted as spam] has pointed out was a central consideration of masculinity for most of recent history. The inclusion of women in fighting forces is a recent development as is the accepted inclusion of homosexuals.
To be a man in the 20th century meant for an uncounted multitude being coherced into uniform and coherced into murder and grevious assault on others. Men as a result were systematically scarred and so too their children.

by Carlos Ruiz (Colombia) Fri Nov 15, 2002 13:16

"The great only appear great because we are on our knees. Let us rise." - James Connolly

"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of mine." - Ernesto 'Che' Guevara

"Freedom and peace are inseparable because no man can be at peace without his freedom". - Malcolm X

"The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them..." - Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

by Seargeant Pepper Fri Nov 15, 2002 16:25

Is it true that the SP have still failed to deny persistent reports that their people in Belfast supported a British Army recruiting stall at Queens University?

by sergeant pepper fan Fri Nov 15, 2002 18:14

the Northern Ireland statelet is home to many thousands of people who are ethnically British and owe their primary allegiance to the British identity and its present Crown state. There is no reason why those would not be tempted by the funky adverts to join the army of that state, though in doing so they would be entering into an immoral situtation, think about the change of covers of Sergeant Peppers album, some of the faces were taken off. which ones?

by hunter Fri Nov 15, 2002 20:37

ya ya ya. all those who join the brit army are traitors, theres only one true army and thats the ira (or cira, or rira, or icbinira). well i've got news for ya, my grandfather fought with thew british army, while my great grandfather fought in 19156, while my other two grandparents were in the ira and mna na heireann. as for the rest of my family, well they all have their varilus allegiances. doesnt make any of them traitors to a so-called cause. i dont agree with joining the army or the police because i have my own moral standars. however, to expect everyone to live up to these morals would be folly. many working class people, especially ion britain, have no ther option but to koin the army as a career. having lived in the uk for 4 years i can testify that they know sweet fuck all about the crimes of their imperialist army. it is a materialist decision to join the army, ie to provide for ones self. my best mate in london was an ex-royal marine, who had done 10years service. he left because, in his own words, they were "all a bunch of fucking pricks" but he saved up enough money to put himself thru university and is now on his way to an english degree. he never killed anyone, got to visit cuba and the states. i have another friend who is a nurse in the brit army. and mags, who says they illegally occupy one fifth of our country? i think the protestant majority would have something to say about that. oh but then i was forgetting that the prod working class is 'backward', just like the israelis and the brits and the yanks. one issue about the north that really bugs me is this... why would you NOT want o live in a country (or statelet, call it what u want) where there is free health care and good roads. having travelled around ireland alot, my fav place to drive is on a northern road. who the fuck would want to be part of the second most corrupt country in europe? im outta here as soon as i can get out. so in conclusion, people who join the army are not necessarily 'traitors' (for fucks sake traitors to what cause, just cos its your cause doesnt mean its mine), and people who join armys are not the problem, the are symptoms of the wider problem, ie capitalism. eradicate that, then all this nationalist bullshit that im sick of hearing will disappear. national liberation thru social liberation. its the only way. - and no, ive never joined ANY army

by Sean Fri Nov 15, 2002 20:40

Wasn't James Connolly once in the British Army?

At the end of the day does it really matter if you are fighting for British capitalists or Irish capitalists? What we need is a workers army made up of all nationalities!

by Raymond McInerney Fri Nov 15, 2002 21:01

We need world peace

by yuppie hater Fri Nov 15, 2002 23:30

Maybe these mercenary traitors will get a very warm welcome soon from Mr S. Hussein.

by alan b'stard Sat Nov 16, 2002 00:49

Working class men join the brit army, becos they have nothing else to do, when you're stuck on the dole, bored stupid, or just stupid, to try and escape their environment, to travel, see the world meet interesting people and kill them. Many working class irish men dream of excitement, money and adventure. The deceptive glossy army adverts on the telly, promise all this and respectability, but the reality is there is less or little money, alot of bullying, alot of indoctrination and no career prospects, who wants to employ, a disabled person suffering from Gulf war syndrome.

by iosaf Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:30

Such exploitation of working men oiled the psychological terror that was and is the Noethern Ireland conflict.
generations of men on both sides of the Irish sea militarised by forces safely out of the way.
If they weren´t being forced into uniform by poverty they were being sold drugs. The areas of the north of England that offered the most squaddies also had third generation unemployment.
They also were flooded with Heroin as was Ireland and everywhere else at crucial stages.
IF they didnot kill our contemporaries with bullets it was with drugs.

by ehhmmm Sat Nov 16, 2002 17:14

"The great only appear great because we are on our knees. Let us rise." - James Connolly
Number one it was Larkin, No 2 connolly was in the british army.

by tomas o'se - sinnfein1 Fri May 11, 2018 18:30

is everyone really being serious???? next time you watch English boxing remember that 9/10 those are all either real west indian blooded people or real irish blooded people who are forced to kiss the queens ass and drop their irishness.......from terry Flanagan, liam walsh, irish gypsy Tyson fury, josh Kelly, sheedy, Donovan, jimmy Kelly, I could go on all day plus the thousands of real irish blooded boxers who won world championships who were from England/uk........look at just Scotland, the 2 best boxers were irish blooded benny lynch whose parents were from Ireland.......and also ricky burns who is from coatbridge,scotland a very big irish enclave in Scotland......ricky burns is known to wear his holy rosary beads before every fight which his fans despise.....I wonder why would that be lol??? shit English/uk hate irishness!!!! I mean ricky burns who is irish catholic cant even wear rosay beads before fights are you kidding me??? shit the first lineal world heavyweight champ was kerryman Irishman john l Sullivan from boston,ma,usa and the current lineal world champ is irish gypsy blooded Tyson fury from Manchester!!!! in between you had the best heavyweight lineal world champs that even mike Tyson Kirkpatrick thinks are the best too like irish jack Dempsey and irish gene tunney!!!!! then you had jim Corbett, irish -Cornish bob fitzsimmons the redhead, peter maher, anglo-irishman james braddock!!!! shit then you had micky walker, mike gibbons, mike glover, mike odowd, jack britton, philly Obrien, nonpareil Dempsey, Caldwell, rinty monaghan, dave mcauley, eamon laughran, tommy laughran, steve Collins the celtic warrior, etc etc etc etc etc etc