Practical support for firefighters

by Brian Mon Dec 02, 2002 12:35

as far as i know organise!-asf (the anarcho-syndicalist federation) have a firefighter support fund and have been raising support in there communities in the north and standing with firefighters on the picket line. Organise! - ASF can be emailed at anarcho_syndicalist_federation@hotmail.com

by Droll Mon Dec 02, 2002 13:10

Doh

by Not surprised Mon Dec 02, 2002 13:13

They're on strike in the North too you know. I take it the Provos in the North aren't doing a tap to help them or you would Know hwere to send donations.
Hint: Just walk down to a picket line and say something like "Hi, here's some money". Not rocket science.
Because SF are doing nothing contact the West Belfast Support Group whcih Davy from the SWP posted below
at http://www.indymedia.ie/cgi-bin/newswire.cgi?id=19929

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Mon Dec 02, 2002 13:17 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

Sectarianism aside, I was looking for people or groups who might want to assist or work on it in the Dublin area, perhaps hold a fundraiser or even turn up with a few buckets at odd times during the Xmas rush. I have contacted FBU and am waiting for a response but I thought somebody else might have got there before me and was curious. As for SF in the North, I live in Dublin and have no idea what they're doing on the issue. I know some Ográ stood on picket lines because I know the people involved but what I'm interested in is if there are people in Dublin interested in working on it. Sin é.

by rt.hon. J. tweedle dumb humm Mon Dec 02, 2002 13:45

these types of strike are very important.
especially in times of extra-ordinary extra-state aggression.
firemen (firepeople=firefightingservices) are an icon of the modern world.
The power of state to intervene in moments of serious crises and save lives, splash water about and rescue cats from trees.
I support the firefightingservices in their work to save lives and rescue cats from trees and splash water about.
But also I remember where this "esssential service" came from. Bad BAd roots in arsonist speculation back in the Roman Empire.
awful.
Todays firefighting services are different.
They{re badly paid and on strike.
Todays emperors are the same.
shake a bucket
splasj some water.
:-)

by OK - SP Mon Dec 02, 2002 14:58

The SP are raising money for the firefighters. In Belfast we raised about €4000. Our British comrades are also raising money.

Justin, you're in a party that organises in the north, are your comrades there doing anything?

by pat c Mon Dec 02, 2002 15:49

if you paid more attention to whats on indy rather than indulging in sectarian attacks you would be aware of sf & irsp support for the firefighters. several articles have appeared regarding this.

go and find them & read them.

by OK - SP Mon Dec 02, 2002 15:58

I think that Pat C's last posting shows that he's hit an all-time low. I'm not going to bother replying to your infantile attempts at stirring it up.

My last posting was telling Justin what the SP are doing, and asking him if his party are doing similar work. It's not a sectarian attack. I support the firefighters, anything anygroup does to raise money and support is to be welcomed.

If you want to read what I said in previous positng go to those postings.

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Mon Dec 02, 2002 17:37 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

First off, fairplay for raising that amount of money. Secondly, in much the same way that you didn't know you had a looper walking about Queens in a proto-DUP fashion I have no idea what SF in the North is doing in terms of the fire-strike. I'm sure enough anti-SF people are about to tell me how we're robbing fire-fighers.

Thirdly, and this is also, by merest coincedence the third time I've made the point, my interest is in what people in Dublin, progressive, socialist, Trade Union + working class backing activists are doing to support the fire-fighters strike.

by pat c Mon Dec 02, 2002 18:39

ok - sp, you spot every republican posting & invariably launch asectarian attack. i do not believe that you missed the sf & irsp posts about the strike.

i saw the second part of your message as one of your usual attacks

you have some nerve calling me infantile after the crap you've come out with.

but it all stems back to the fact that you dont believe anyone has the right to criticise you.

heres some questions & comments you neglected to answer (they'll keep coming):

you are a loyalist. now how do you feel about that.

if its legitimate for you to call me a nationalist then surely its even more legitimate for me to call you a loyalist. you support the right of the orange order to march down the garvaghy road. so does the lvf.

you are not socialists , in the north you are left wing loyalists. your only message to catholics is croppy lie down.

do you really think you can get away with not answering these questions? they are going to keep cropping up.

all of the points i made are statements of fact.
ward did all of the things i stated he did, YOU HAVENT DENIED THIS>

militant described soldiers as workers in uniform all thru the war in the north. YOU HAVENT DENIED THIS.

you & the lvf continue to support the right of the orange order to march down the garvaghy road. THIS IS A FACT DESPITE YOUR DENIALS.

if a member of your party broke party policy in a public way then surely it is reasonable to ask you how you investigated this. and what youare doing about it.

you are fooling no one. the questions will keep coming until you supply answers.

if its a dialogue of the deaf then you choose to be deaf.

by socialist Mon Dec 02, 2002 20:25

ok he was only asking what was happening couldn't you tell him without bursting into attack?

by OK - SP Mon Dec 02, 2002 21:20

I think I'll just ignore Pat C. I didn't even bother reading his last posting.

Justin, In Dublin the SP did hold a public meeting. And we are raising some money. I couldn't tell you if we are going to have a particulr drive towards raising money and support. In the north it's obviously more of an issue, so we are doing stuff there.

I'm sure that if the strike develops further it will have a greater impact on workers in the south, and there will be trade union activists and left wing parties getting more active on the issue.

by Brian Cahill - Socialist Party Tue Dec 03, 2002 01:18

Unless people or organisations in the South have some kind of link with an organisation which is collecting money in the North or in Britain the easiest way to give cash assistance to the firefighters is to get directly in touch with the FBU. The union is collecting money for its hardship fund.

The Socialist Party in the North as well as the English and Welsh Socialist Party have been raising as much money as possible. Some other left wing groups have been doing likewise, as have many branches of other unions.

Some trades councils have started up support groups and they are also worth getting in touch with.

Like OK I will leave the increasingly incoherent ramblings of Pat C aside for now.

by pat c Tue Dec 03, 2002 11:47

Brian Cahill is well known on the newslist Irish Left; whenever hes losing an argument he runs away.

All I'm doing is asking questions. I'll make it easy for you and reduce it to 2.

1. The SP say they dont support the orange order & that they believe communities should be allowed to live free from sectarian harassment. But they then go on to say that the orange order should have the right to march. Dont they see a contradiction here ?

The people of the Garvaghy Road have lived under a sectarian siege for the last 7 years, Twelve people, including 3 children , have been killed by loyalists to assert their right to march down the Garvaghy Road. after the 3 Quinn babies were burned to death by loyalists, even some hardened loyalist paramilitaries withdrew their support for the march.

GIVEN THE TWELVE LOYALIST MURDERS DO THE SP STILL BELIEVE THE ORANGE ORDER HAVE THE RIGHT TO MARCH DOWN THE GARVAGHY ROAD?

2. HOW COULD NAMING A BURSARY AFTER A MURDERED HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER BE SECTARIAN?

by Dev Tue Dec 03, 2002 13:18

Pat why dont you read over the last few posting you put on indymedia. They are the writings of a man obsessed with attacking the SP. You're like a Spart!

Pat Corcoran you're not answering questions about AFA's classification of the Orange Order as Fascist. I dont think that SP members will be going on and on about one member of AFA (ie you)having a different view of the Orange Order against AFA's line.

The motto of marxists is "Workers of the World Unite!". The motto of Pat is "Workers of the World Unite, except prods and jews"

by pat c Tue Dec 03, 2002 14:06

"Pat Corcoran
by Dev Tue, Dec 3 2002, 12:18pm

Pat why dont you read over the last few posting you put on indymedia. They are the writings of a man obsessed with attacking the SP. You're like a Spart!"

why dont you read over the sp attacks on virtually every republican article over the past month? why are the sp obseessed with attacking republican socialists?

republican socialists have been called: nationalists; catholic nationalists and fascists by members of the sp. then you gact surprised and outraged when retaliation occurs.

"Pat Corcoran you're not answering questions about AFA's classification of the Orange Order as Fascist."

afa doesnt call the orange order fascist. but it is aware of orange order links with the BNP, NF & Combat 18. Are ypu saying the SP are not aware of the fact that Fascists have participated in loyalist actions in Portadown and East Belfast & Colerainne etc?

AFAs interest in loyalism is where it intersects with fascism. Afa only has an interest in the Garvaghy rd if there is fascist involvement in the actions.

however, as individuals, i'm not aware of any afa member who supports the right of the orange order to march down the road.

AFA I might also add is a single issue campaign. People with different views work together against Fascism. Its something some members of the SP find difficult to grasp because they are used to working in SP fronts.

"I dont think that SP members will be going on and on about one member of AFA (ie you)having a different view of the Orange Order against AFA's line."

i dont have any differences with afa on the orange order. the fact is SY members, particularly from UCD have been carrying out a sustained attack on republican socialists on indymedia.

"The motto of marxists is "Workers of the World Unite!". The motto of Pat is "Workers of the World Unite, except prods and jews""

this is typical of the sort of SP slander which has been going on for the past month.

I am proud to oppose Fascism, Loyalism , Zionism and Imperialism.

Pity the SP cant say the same.