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The Saker Indymedia Ireland is a volunteer-run non-commercial open publishing website for local and international news, opinion & analysis, press releases and events. Its main objective is to enable the public to participate in reporting and analysis of the news and other important events and aspects of our daily lives and thereby give a voice to people.
Public InquiryInterested in maladministration. Estd. 2005
Human Rights in IrelandIndymedia Ireland is a volunteer-run non-commercial open publishing website for local and international news, opinion & analysis, press releases and events. Its main objective is to enable the public to participate in reporting and analysis of the news and other important events and aspects of our daily lives and thereby give a voice to people.
Lockdown Skeptics
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Anti-semitism on the rise national |
miscellaneous |
news report
 Wednesday December 18, 2002 01:19 by Dave D
 The bombing of children in Israel sees the return of latent anti-Semitism. Indymedia's coverage of the conflict in the Middle East highlighted. Indymedia's biased coverage of the conflict in the Middle East was rightly alluded to by Henry McDonalds at the weekend. Anti-semitism briefly raised its head and exposed itself in tooth and claw last month when the Pat Kenny Show discussed a suicide bomb that killed 11 schoolchildren in Israel. Despite harrowing reports of young girls and boys crying 'Mama! Mama!' from the bombed bus, no sympathy was expressed by those who took the time to call into Kenny's weekday radio show. Instead, he was met with gales of 'whataboutery' as callers ignored the slaughter on the bus, preferring to focus on the deaths of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories at the hands of the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF). Even an experienced broadcaster such as Kenny was shocked at the callers' lack of compassion for Israeli children. Part of this, to be fair, is due to the Irish association with the underdog; a by-product of our own colonial past. But throughout Irish history in the 20th century there has been a deep mistrust, at times hostility, towards the Jews and later Israel. During and after the Second World War official Irish policy was to keep Jewish refugees out of the Free State. The reasoning at the Department of Foreign Affairs was that anti-Semitism was widespread and deep throughout the State. When you raise the question of anti-Semitism with the left in Ireland you are immediately hit in the face with this counter-argument. The Palestinian struggle, they protest, is not directed at the Jewish people but rather the pro-Imperialist Zionist oppressors. Arafat's Palestinian Authority wants to create a paradise in which Arab, Jew and Christian can live as equals. At the heart of the apologias for Palestinian terror or Israeli oppression is a denial of the facts. A large section of the Palestinian populace back movements that are murderously anti-Semitic. Hamas and Islamic Jihad are dedicated to the total destruction of the Israeli State, and consequently its people, from the Jordan to the Mediterranean. Even Egypt - the only Arab country that signed a peace treaty with Israel - is currently broadcasting a soap opera which repeats historically discredited Tsarist lies about the Jewish plot to take over the world, the notorious 'Protocols of the elders of Zion'. Amos Elon, the Israeli writer and proponent of a Palestinian state, was deeply shocked during a tour of Arab capitals in the mid 1990s by the extent of anti-Semitic propaganda besmirching public discourse. Yet you will read none of this in the journals, websites and newspapers of the Irish far left. The Irish groupies who flock to the West Bank and Gaza in the hope of becoming the Florence Nightingales of Third World Liberation choose to ignore these indisputable facts. By Henry McDonald, Summary Provided
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Comments (16 of 16)
Jump To Comment: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16Some Zionists are racists comparable only to the worst of the Afrikaaners or the British. At the moment the people who have suffered most are the Palestinians who have had their lives, land and livelihoods stolen. Israel has flouted international law and convention again and again and it's not surprising that sympathy for them is dulled.
The label of "anti-Semite" is being used to stifle debate. It's like the cry of "censorship" that goes up whenever someone questions a post on indymedia. Yes, there are anti-Semites. But not all people that criticize Israel and feel little sympathy for the death of settlers and citizens that have voted in their racist government again and again are anti-Semites.
The last poster should ask why the left is obsessed with the imperfections of Israel, rather than worse crimes committed by dozens of others countries such as Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Burma, Nigeria, Rwanda, Sudan, Syria, Morocco, Algeria, Colombia, Belarus etc., which are all currently engaged in wars with minority groups and where the death toll far exceeds that of the Israel-Arab conflict. Anti-Semitism can be thought of as a hatred where negative traits common to many people (e.g. greed, dishonesty) are considered as being unique to Jews. Anti-Zionism can also be thought of as a hatred where negative actions common to most countries (e.g. unfairness to minority groups, violence toward enemies) are considered as being unique to the Jewish State. They are two forms of the same hatred. The left, and especially the far left, is infected by this hatred. Reasonable people on the left need to confront this bigotry or it will color the entire movement.
Mike are you also "Wilma" of NYC indymedia? Your post has an uncanny resemblance. Btw, targeting civilians is always evil. Israel does it more often.
Fashionable Bigotry
by Wilma 9:22pm Tue Dec 17 '02
We should ask why the left is obsessed with the imperfections of Israel, rather than worse crimes committed by dozens of others countries such as Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Burma, Nigeria, Rwanda, Sudan, Syria, Morocco, Algeria, Colombia, Belarus etc., which are all currently engaged in wars with minority groups and where the death toll far exceeds that of the Israel-Arab conflict. Anti-Semitism can be thought of as a hatred where negative traits common to many people (e.g. greed, dishonesty) are considered as being unique to Jews. Anti-Zionism can also be thought of as a hatred where negative actions common to most countries (e.g. unfairness to minority groups, violence toward enemies) are considered as being unique to the Jewish State. They are two forms of the same hatred. The left, and especially the far left, is infected by this hatred. I estimate that at least 25% of the postings on Indymedia are negative comments towards Jews or Israel. Reasonable people on the left need to confront this bigotry or it will color the entire movement.
What is too bizarre about the so-called New Left is the fact that they support the fundamentalist groups which oppose womens rights, women's health-care initiatives, choice, a free press, voting rights, freedom of religion and freedom from slavery.
In fact, this New Left Syndrome caused them to capitualte to the fundamentalists quicker than France did to Hitler -- and have taken on the Arabist viewpoint without thought as to how it might eliminate those ideals the New Left pretends to value.
They have become the Political Wing of the New Capo.
I'm not sure when it becomes unfashionable, but at some point schoolchildren stop telling their teacher "why are you picking on me? Johnny/Sally is the real trouble maker." Perhaps this happens naturally around the 5th grade. It's classic defocusing. Grow up!
By the way, there is nothing new about the New Left. I've been an activist for social justice since Sharon facilitated the massacre of two thousand. Palestinians at Sabra and Shatila nearly 20 years.
Won't you join me in helping to fight racism and injustice? Won't you stop turning a blind eye to the war crimes of the IDF under the tutelage of war criminal Sharon?
We on the left condemn the targeting civilians by either side. Won't you too make the same request of BOTH sides?
When people (even Jewish people!) criticise the state of Israel, they're 'antisemitic'.
When people (even US citizens!) criticise US government policy, they're 'anti-american'.
When people (even Muslims!) criticise Islamic fundamentalism, they're 'anti-Muslim'.
It doesn't take long to realise that calling people 'anti-x' is code for 'stop criticising me'.
(I can't resist pointing out that its equally possible to be critical of the IRA or INLA without being a west brit, or to criticise Hamas without being a zionazi)
"Btw, targeting civilians is always evil. Israel does it more often."
How totally UNTRUE!!!!!!!! Unless Hamas, Jihad, Fatah members are civilians....
If you would check the actual statistics, you would know that you are totally mistaken.
When was the last time you remember, in your selective memory, that Israel blew up a bus full of school kids, bombed a restaurant, bombed a disco, shot children in the head their beds as they slept?
That is targetting civilians - a habit of the Palestinians. It is utterly wrong to attribute the same to Israel in its fight to stop this most evil of evils. Yes, Israel kills, and sometimes even kills civilians, but never never never with the same voracious appetite as Palestinian terrorists.
and by the way, Phuq Hedd, did you ever stop to think that occupation began when the Arabs began yet another war against Israel? Aren't they just bad losers?
Israel has been ready to compromise, has agreed to a Palestinian state umpteen times, but there is no-one on the other side to make a deal with.
In 2000, the Palestinians CHOSE war as preferable to making peace.
And what you try and present as historical facts is pure and utter propaganda.
The Palestinians are the ultimate rejectionists of peace. Symbolised by a nation that teaches their kids it is better to die killing a jew, than it is to live your own life.
Two points raised by defenders of Israel in this post.
1. Equating anti-Zionism with anti-semitism
2. Saying Israel is unfairly targeted.
The first thing is, I'm sorry, despicable. Firstly, because it tars defenders of human rights, sympathisers with the Palestinians struggle or simply people disgusted by Israeli brutality as mindless thick racists. What! - You didn't show sufficient sympathy with Israelis - you must want to exterminate them! Them and all the Jews! This is simply thought policing taken to the stupidest level possible. It has proven effective in America in shutting down debate, but hopefully not here.
But it's also despicable because there are genuine anti-semites out there. And saying that anyone who criticises Israel is anti-semitic makes it harder to fight and deal with them. Saying that an anti-semite is anyone who takes issue with Israel, just legitimises anti-semitism. Is that your aim?
On the second thing, I can half see the point. Why is Israel targeted? Why isn't Syria, for example, who massacred tens of thousands of Syrians back in the '80s targeted? But the answer is clear. Israel positions itself as a Western, Europeanised country. It's ruling class, if not the majority of its population are from Europe. It's up to us to focus on it, just like it was up to us to target South Africa - another Europeanised elite.
And is anyone old enough to remember those folks who who criticised the anti-apartheid movement for only targeting White South Africa and ignoring black African countries. These weren't folks who gave a damn about the human rights of Nigerians or Zairians, in the same way I'm sure that Mike doesn't spend sleepless nights thinking about the human rights situation of Syrians. Such words and arguments are just a smokescreen. They are used by people who know they can't even defend anymore what Israel is doing.
Quote from Shell above; - "The Palestinians are the ultimate rejectionists of peace. Symbolised by a nation that teaches their kids it is better to die killing a jew, than it is to live your own life."
The reason why people sympathise with Palestinians is that they truly BELIEVE that they'd be better off dead.
Anyone who feels that way deserves human sympathy and HELP.
There is something more than a little ironic in a supporter of the Zionists referring to Hamas. It is not exactly a secret that the Israeli state played a major role in the building of Hamas as a source of opposition to the secular PLO. The lives of children regardless of nationality are of equal value, but have you ever heard of the killers of PALESTINIAN CHILDREN been described as "Terrorists", in the establishment media, they are described as an "army", whereas the Palestinian forces are variously described as "terrorists" or "gunmen" but then they don't recieve billions from Washington. On a lighter note, I do hope that Justin or MG does not regard my comment as "trolling".
Actually, I agree with you entirely...
I would also like to point out to "Shell" that the Israeli army has killed more Palestinian civilians since September 2000 than the Palestinian militants have killed Israeli civilians. It is very difficult to tell the number of Palestinians that the Israeli soldiers deliberately targeted, but it is certainly higher than the number of Israeli civilians killed in despicable suicide bombings.
I'd also like to ask "Shell" a few questions, if he-she has any intention of coming back here and following up on the debate:
1. Does the killing of 14 civilians, including 11 children, along with one Hamas activist count as the targeting of civilians. I would say yes, because whoever dropped the bomb knew well that civilians would die. This same argument applies to suicide bombers. Quite often, these bombers choose buses that are carrying Israeli soldiers and civilians. As usual in the Middle East, civilians make up more of the victims. The Palestinian bombers know this will be the case and therfore, they are effectively targeting civilians.
2. Would you count the assassination of Rehavam Zeevi as the targeting of a civilian? If so, then Israeli "targeted killings" must also be considered as attacks on civilians. (Or may you think Palestinian rabble-rousers are less worthy of life than Israeli rabble-rousers.)
3. Do you consider the demolition of houses belonging to the families of suicide bombers as the targeting of civilians? If not, please explain.
4. Do you consider the curfews, checkpoints and other means used to demean the Palestinian population as the targeting of civilians? Although Israel argues these are used to prevent "terrorism", the people who suffer from them are civilians.
5. Do you consider the shooting of stone-throwing youths as the targeting of civilians? If not, I'd like to hear your views about Bloody Sunday in Derry in 1972.
I'm looking forward to your response...
Don't be stupid. This is Indymedia the premeire site on the web for Jew hating, oops, anti-zionism. You see dead jews, babies killed in their bassinets doesn't mean shit, i mean after all it's just J-E-W-S. Sure the pallys could have had a state in 48, from 48-67, after 67 and most recently in 00 but killing jews gives them a purpose. Don't waste your breath with logic. At Indymedia Israel is the most dangerous, corrupt, awful nation in the world and the only thing they can do is slide into the sea and let the peace loving, free, democratic arabs take over.
But WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Palestinians could have had a state in 67?
Israeli propaganda suggests that they are the underdogs fighting Arab terrorist. These quotes from the Israeli P.M.tell the true story.
"I don't know something called International Principles. I vow that I'll burn every Palestinian child (that) will be born in this area. The Palestinian woman and child is more dangerous than the man, because the Palestinian childs existence infers that generations will go on, but the man causes limited danger. I vow that if I was just an Israeli civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him. With one hit I've
killed 750 Palestinians (in Rafah in 1956). I wanted to encourage my soldiers by raping Arabic girls as the Palestinian women is a slave for Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and nobody tells us what we shall do but we tell others what they shall do."
[Ariel Sharon, current Prime Minister, In an interview with General Ouze Merham, 1956].
"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours... Everything we don't grab will go to them."
(Ariel Sharon, 1998)
Ben Gurion had said in 1948 : "We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return." Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes. "The old will die and the young will forget."
But the Palestinians will never forget. How can they? The occupation, the killings, the demolition of homes, the violations of the human rights of the people, the blatent disregard for U.N resolutions and international law, the stealing of land, the buildings of illegal settlements etc, etc.. continue unabated.