Gunned down Adair pal, notorious drug pusher ran child vice ring in south belfast

by Sir Peter Hadden - HMSP Mon Jan 06, 2003 13:26

I had lots of fun playing with his friendly kids.

by chris loughlin - sy Mon Jan 06, 2003 14:01

just thought id say dont know who that joffe character who claims to be from sy then sp is, suffice to say every single post he puts up in no way is socialist youths view of things.

by Joffe - SY/SP Mon Jan 06, 2003 16:35

Any of the other SP members who have commented have only disagreed with the way I expressed my views. Not with the essentials. They agreed that Catholic Sectarianism is responsible for the Holy Cross situation and that Chavez is a (populist) dictator who wil eventually betray the masses.

His support comes from the lumpen elements. Not the organised working class.

by Ray Mon Jan 06, 2003 16:45

Was the Holycross situation really the fault of those uppity Taigs who got ideas above their station and decided that they should be allowed use the front entrance to a school too?

('Lumpen elements'. I just love that phrase.)

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Mon Jan 06, 2003 16:53 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

I have to confess to a certain ignorance about the phrase 'lumpen elements'. From the way Joffe used it I gather it means non-socialist or unionised working class elements but I'm not sure. Clarification?

by Ray Mon Jan 06, 2003 17:04

It means people who don't have the correct opinions, but are too poor to be described as 'bourgeois'. I think in this case it means everybody who supports Chavez. If you exclude them, the bourgeois elements, and the objectively reactionary elements, you'll find that the overwhelming majority of the working class is squarely behind Joffe.

by publo Mon Jan 06, 2003 18:04

Arent the lumpenproletariat that poorest sector of society that lack the social unity of the working classes - presumably as a direct resyult of the imperfect class system - and are often ignorant, fearful and addicted to one drug or another? or have we come some way since the days of marx to use the suffix 'elements' in order to describe something quite different? and is this geographically specific in an age of globalisation? so many Qs, id better read a book.

by Ray Mon Jan 06, 2003 18:29

In theory, the working clas excludes
- people who work on the land, because they're peasants
- the unemployed and/or illiterate, because they're lumpen
- artisans/skilled manual workers, because they're petty bourgeois
and probably some other groups I've forgotten. On the one hand, socialists will talk about the working class being the great majority of society, which is why they have a right to rule. On the other, when it suits them, they will exclude most of this great majority on different grounds, so they're left with unionised factory workers, or whatever group they have some support from. The best example is Russia, of course, where the statement 'the Bolsheviks were the party of the working class' actually meant 'the Bolsheviks had some support among factory workers in Petrograd and Moscow, for a few months in 1917/1918'

by Pat C Tue Jan 07, 2003 11:53

UDA cover name Red Hand Commandos claimed responsibility.

Do the SP think "Catholic Sectarianism" was responsible for this bomb?

by guess again Tue Jan 07, 2003 16:19

XXX XXXXXX 2 blonde fat ugly gap toothed sistas can be seen, strolling through Botanic gardens occasionally. XXX who was a close associate of XXX scumbag XXXXXX, relatives can be seen walking through Botanic gardens as they take their ugly fat kids to Botanic PS, indeed one miserable rough looking long haired denim clad ginger bab works as a dinner lady at Botanic PS ahh.

by the miserable gob of decrepit Billy 'liar' lowry Wed Jan 08, 2003 00:04

fill in the blanks Roy Green's

by Malachy Wed Jan 08, 2003 14:31 Derry

Hadden has always taken a great interest in the various youth wings Militant and the SP have had here. Its always been a happy hunting ground for him. He could have taught Gerry Healy a few things.