Iranian teenager sentenced to death for drinking

by cat Sat Jan 11, 2003 22:01

Out of interest, the US is one of only 6 countries that impose the death penalty on juveniles. the others are Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Yemen. The US has not signed the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child as it contains a provision prohibiting the execution of children under 18. So this fight you speak of must include the US also...

by Irish American Sat Jan 11, 2003 22:04

Of course, I expected the usual reflexive criticism of the U.S., cause we're not neutral.

If we were, you'd be speaking Deutsch.

by Bystander Sat Jan 11, 2003 22:19

Of course, I expected the usual reflexive criticism of the U.S., cause we're not neutral.

If we were, you'd be speaking Deutsch

"Irish American" - will you right wing US supporting historically illiterate fools make up your mind! It's always "if it weren't for us you guys would be speaking German" or, when then fancy takes them, "if it weren't for us you guys would be speaking Russian". Which is it??
Get it straight for f**ks sake.

by iosaf Sat Jan 11, 2003 22:55

that autonomy begins with self.
To get shattered if you so wish.

and the cat is quite right too.
the USA has the death penalty.
Mr Bush signed more warrents than anyone else.
remember Mumia.
we do not like the death sentance.

and as for Deutsch...
The United States of America´s official language is English (American varient).
This was as a result of a very close vote.
German lost by three votes.
History could have been very different.
Though I must point out that the USA has never voted on Neutrality.
California will vote on Spanish as an official language.
In the genecide of indiginous peoples that brought about the USA it is estimated that 90 indignious languages were destroyed.
The present reservations are technically indepedendent from the USA and thus their languages can not be considered US languages though some do still exist.

Fight the death penalty wherever it exists.

It might be worth considering the US human rights and prison record over the years for all those interested in Liberty.

It seems odd to Europeans to think that the US locks up more of its people than any other "civilised" nation.
It seems odd to Europeans that it took 12 years for the prison riots of Attaca New York Sep. 9 -13 1971. to recieve official recognition and even then the conmpensation paid to former inmates for indiscrimante killing torture etc., disqualified them from their welfare stamps.
It seems odd to Europeans that the professor of Law at Harvard could argue for torture of AlQaeda suspects in the wake of Sept 11.
Much of the USA seems odd to Europeans.
If the USA were third world country then maybe we would just go onthinking it odd, maybe make resolutions not to go there- ever.
But unfortuantely the USA has weapons of mass destruction and has used them, and presently seems intent on putting all of us

in the shit.

I like americans.
I am not anti-american.
I supported Mumia and the victims of Attaca.
I support Acorn and the squatters of the USA.
I support the greens of the USA.
But hey man you´ve got a well fucked country.
so easy on the criticism of others nasty bad regimes particularly when US support of those regimes has continued the subjugation of rights in those countries.

by Irish American Sat Jan 11, 2003 23:25

'cause we kept you "neutrals" free from both the Nazis and the Soviets.

On the death penalty, as I've said, I'm against it, and my state does not have it.

Today the Governor of Illinois, George Ryan, is commuting all death sentences in that state based on his lack of confidence in it.

As far as Mumia goes, I do not want him to be executed, but from what I've read he's most likely guilty of murder. He can write well, and thus has attracted the attention of the usual crew of bandwagon-hoppers and saps.

My original point was not that the US is perfect, but rather that it is much better than places like Iran, Iraq (viz. Makiya "Republic of Fear"), North Korea, and Afghanistan under the Taliban.

by Bystander Sun Jan 12, 2003 00:01

umm, actually both German AND Russian . . .

Irish American - if it weren't for you guys would we be speaking German and Russian AT THE SAME TIME or would it be, like, one sentence in Russian following by a sentence in German etc. etc. Thanks for saving us from all that - you're real pals.

by cunning linguist Sun Jan 12, 2003 03:32

I'd like to thank the British empire for saving us from having to speak Irish (a language only just behing klingon and afrikaans in the ugly sound stakes). And the USA for doing its best to save me from reasoned debate.

And am I wrong here? last I heard there was democracy at play in Iran. Unlike N.Korea, Iraq, Saudi, Pakistan, Kuwait, or a variety of dodgy spots both 'with' and 'against' the US. We might not like everything going on in Iran, but at least they have their own internal mechanism for change. They don't need the sort of helpful input Bush is providing for the Venezualans.

by fuinseog Sun Jan 12, 2003 06:14

Thanks for the news. Good to be reminded of how bad the human rights situation is in some parts of the world.

It is generally thought that Saudi Arabia is one of the most repressive societies on the planet, a brutal monarchy based on torture, using executions for adultery and gay sex etc. Can you explain why in your great fight for human rights, you are supporting their regime.

And if the answer to that one fits on the back of a postcard, you might explain why you funded and supported Islamic fundamentalists to take power in Afghanistan.

Thanks.

by Mirror Image Sun Jan 12, 2003 09:05

I am not an American.

The people who will send others to fight are religious fanatics, and have a vision to establish their idea of "Democracy" (not the true and historically tolerant Democracy) as a totalitarian principle.

They are the most corrupt men on earth.

They execute women for second-degree murder.

They execute the mentally ill.

They sentence children to death.

They have killed thousands of people in Central America, Southeast Asia, the Middle East, and other places.

They continue to support militant and oppressive regimes in many parts of the world.

They have taken a noble principle, that of only using war as a last resort and only on the say-so of their Congress, and turned it on it’s head. The executive is on the verge of seizing the right to wage pre-emptive war without reference to congress, or at best with a rubber stamp from them.

They will set a precedent for implementing “regime changes” whenever and wherever they chose, the only qualifying guideline being “if you are not with us, you are against us”. In some quarters there is already talk of a “regime change” being required in Europe.

According to reliable polls, the majority of people want more freedom, for reasons related to the activities of these men.

We ask for your help in this fight. Empires serve only the rulers, not the ruled.

by iosaf again. Sun Jan 12, 2003 18:09

I know it was mid nineteenth century.
I know English won by less than ten votes.
I know German was the second.

German was almost the most widely spoken language in the USA because of famines in the german speaking lands.
Many speaker of Swedish and Norwegian also made the trip out of Europe to America in that period.

It certainly is an interesting overlooked fact.

by The Pooka Mon Jan 13, 2003 07:16

In response to your query, Tim, please see follow the link below.

Seems that the US Congress has never considered replacing English with another tongue as the first language of the US.

But in 1795 Congress did debate printing the federal laws in German as well as English, in response to a petition from a group of Germans living in Virginia.

During the debate, a motion to adjourn was defeated by one vote. It seems that this is the origin of the "German almost first language" legend.

http://www.watzmann.net/scg/german-by-one-vote.html

http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/german.htm

by jeff Mon Jan 13, 2003 12:06

And that is all I have to say about Amreekans,Marn!As usual,there will always be some eejit trying to find any excuse to slag off a guy who seems to have the same views as him soley cos he is a yank.'Saving Private Ryan' is not black,CIA sponsored propaganda instigated by Skull and Bones Freemasons in cahoots with Grey(yank spelling 'Gray')Aliens.The fact that thiese writings started off and have drifted away from the fact that a young fella is to have his neck snapped for having a scoop is sad.So try yer best to bombard their embassy in Dublin with letters,eggs,pigs head(well,no,that would be taking it too far).

Regarding US language,I have an out of print book,The Story of English,published to coincide with a BBC series in the eighties,goes into the debate about English and German,and mentions the fact that Hebrew,Latin,and Greek were debated upon.Now...

by Andrew Mon Jan 13, 2003 12:58

I'm afraid you haven't been listening to your own president on this when he explained that Islam is not the enemy. Him and Blair are both into religous fundamentalism themselves for the same reason Saddam found religion after the 1991 Gulf War - it's useful for keeping the masses in line.

US bombing far from weakening religous fundamentalism has actually made it stronger in Saudi and Iraq. And of course fundamentalism in Iran is in no small way a reaction to the way the US sponsored the brutal but secular dictatorship of the Shah. So if you want to fight fundamntalism, start off at home and oppose this war. In Iran the is a major anti-fundamentalist struggle underway, the last thing those involved in it need is US bombers overhead chasing people back to the mullahs.

It shouldn't be a surprize to those of us in Ireland that religous fundamentalism and imperialism often go hand in hand. Both the north and south of the country were overun by fundamentalist religion after partition but we are winning the battle against this, without the help of B52's, thank you very much.

PS Speaking of the rights of teenagers to get out of their heads is the original poster aware that every year over 600,000 US teenages are arrested for having pot? Or that having more then 5g "can expose you to sentences ranging from six months jail to a lifetime in prison". Don't worry, the Iranian airforce are en route to liberate you by bombing your hometown.

by iosaf Mon Jan 13, 2003 21:43

I have sadly spread the "american vote legend" for a long time.
oooops.
to think the ipisiphi jedi could be guilty of disinformation.
other thread.
how many times has the USA fought expansionist wars on it´s own continent?
I reckon lots.
apart from the injuns.
I know of
Mexico
Texas
Canada
Utah
any others?

by iosaf Mon Jan 13, 2003 21:49

The USA did not keep Finland neutral says she.
She also muttered something about the partition of Vienna Austria and looking at Yalta again.
Very happy for Torvald at the moment.
Isn´t it great to see LINUX UNIX do the biz against nasty man Gates?ç

and was not Timothy Leary bit of a spacer but well qualified to be so, professor at Harvard not sent down for possesion of but one incy wincy joint of marijauna which after he said wasn´t that strong anyway for
30 years.
He I was granted political asylum in Switzerland from the USA.
Because the Swiss knew a good tripper when they saw one gave homes to many (including our own lovely James Joyce)and knew oh yes they knew what a messed up parody of a civilised collection of states the US is.
go look for his grave. (Joyce´s not Leary)
Leary was cremated and part of his urn is awaiting space launch. ESA (NASA were too expensive). Another bit is in the cyrogenic deep freeze. Whatever happens to the OAsif please don´t go doing the deep freeze.

by The Pooka Tue Jan 14, 2003 16:31

You're welcome, Master Iosaf, my pleasure. Unbenownst to self I have propagated the same myth myself on a few occasions! Glad now to set the record straight (those links also offer a few words on the Greek/French/Hebrew controversy).

A lesson to us, perhaps, to beware the power of the Dark Side...it flows quickly, but is weaker...

:0)