Thugs threaten to rape a 15 year-old

by pat c Thu Jan 30, 2003 11:56

I know that SF have been to the fore in pushing restorative justice and I believe thr IRSP have supported it as well.

Perhaps SF & IRSP might comment on this.

by pat c Thu Jan 30, 2003 11:41

Read what I actually wrote.

I never said the INLA were acting in the heat of the moment. Rather I was talking about how ANY of us might react to a personal assault.

I dont in any way support this sort of "justice" being inflicted on children. Restorative justice is the way forward.

But leaving aside children and adults who agree to be bound by restorative justice there will still be anti-social elements who prey on their own communities.

In an ideal situation communities would organise their own defence against "joyriders", muggers, rapists & burglars. In a vacuum, paramilitaries will step in. But whether we like it or not; they do have the support of those communities.

by King Mob Wed Jan 29, 2003 19:29

You consistently will bring them into it, No one is disputing the Unionist community have their own special brand o justice, it's just the way you phrased it was to imply that the Unionist community are harsher and more violent than the INLA.

But this isn't a heat of the moment, moment, the INLA thought long and hard about doing this, their words. And most punishment beatings (including Adairs son) are given after several warnings. They're premeditated, not a rash piece of defense as you impy. And I've never really heard of the IRA/INLA/UDA/UDF or anyone telling a kid they must make amends or else, "it's usually do it or else" The fact is most terrorist organisations NEED puinishment beatings etc, to instill an atmosphere of fear in communties to diswade grassing. They need to intimidate and strike fear and these puinishment beatings instill a two fold effect. "preventing" joyriding and petty crime (and they're pretty useless at that, as can be demostrating by their prevalance) and intimdating communties into co-operation.

I'm personnally utterly in favour of restorative justice everywhere not just in communities in the north, but can't see how it will be imposed, by paramiltaries, on either side.

by pat c Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:41

someone else has posted on restorative justice & a link , so i'll leave it.

by Pat C Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:37

"Pat I'm sick of the "unionists do worse" excuse, y'know what, if you want to prove yourself better, don't compare yourself to them and say, say what you like we're not as bad as these feckers, you want to be better stop hurting people and then saying we're less bad than the unionists, start trying a way out of this that stops intimidating and hurting kids."

I wasnt using it as an example of the Unionists are worse, just pointing out it happens in both communities. I do think this maltreatment of children should be stopped, kids have been as good as crucified by republicans as well.

I can understand how in the heat of the moment, just after someone has been knocked down, someone defending themself from attack, violence would be inflicted on teenagers.

Most people on indy would defend themselves if attacked even if that meant using violence against teenagers.

I'll post something on resorative justice separately.

This still doesnt deal with the problem of adults who "joyride", rape , rob & assault people. I talking about lumpen elements who prey on their own community. These anti socials will only laugh at any ideab of restorative justice. Do ordinary people have a right to defend themselves?

In the abscence of self organisation, local communities support the action of Republicans against these crooks.

by C. Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:25

from the site below:

·Restitution and restoration rather than retribution has a long tradition in Irish society;
·Land has always been an important catalyst for the development of alternative systems;
·Origin of law - from where the law claims legitimacy - is as important as its content. In other words, the consent of those subject to the law will determine whether it has a chance of working or not;
·There is a strongly local focus of offending and judgement in Irish systems. This may be because of the relatively low levels of crime by comparison with other societies;
·Consideration of appropriate penalty is dependent on either force or moral authority and community cohesion

by King Mob Wed Jan 29, 2003 01:47

if you asked any taxi driver in dublin right now, they'd tell you that kneecapping was too good for joyriders. So spare me the community want it excuse, mob justice is no justice, and pandering to it is no excuse.

The INLA are pandering to public opinion. Fine some kids are out of control and want to wreck havoc grand, has kneecapping and punishment beatings attacked as a disinstentive for er 25 years? no. Joy riding and petty criminal activity has risen in the north, at a pace far higher than the national norms for ireland or england.

Whats your justification for this? Kids in the north are more violent? Nah kids in the north have zero opportunites, and no rteaction facilties, and this is the result.

Pat I'm sick of the "unionists do worse" excuse, y'know what, if you want to prove yourself better, don't compare yourself to them and say, say what you like we're not as bad as these feckers, you want to be better stop hurting people and then saying we're less bad than the unionists, start trying a way out of this that stops intimidating and hurting kids.

If people like the INLA were genuine in their commitment they'd be active in promoting and developing community services, and instead of intimidating local youths as they will be over the next few months they'd be commited to getting kids particpating in activities that benefit the community (and no joining the INLA does not count) instead of wandering around and threatening kneecapping to teenagers hanging around with little or no evidence.

Course all this would be requiring sane and rational behaviour from the INLA and well chance would be a fine thing

by slum resident Tue Jan 28, 2003 23:33

Pat you will just have to excuse these little well meaning middle class boys and girlies because they just dont anything about know about the little gurriers breaking in windows and throwing bangers through the letterboxes of old aged pensioners, and terrorising single women living alone in corporation flats. If they dont realise that this is going on every night in Dublin, how do you expect them to know about whats happening in Derry!

by pat c Tue Jan 28, 2003 19:54

It means making financial restitution to the victim or carrying out work on behalf of the community.

by Joe Momma Tue Jan 28, 2003 19:47

Who came up with that nasty little euphemism? I presume it means "revenge". Are we back to the days of an eye for an eye?

by pat c Tue Jan 28, 2003 18:51

Just remembered, loyalists crucified a joyrider not so long ago. Nasty actions are carried out against anti social elements by both communities.

by Pat C Tue Jan 28, 2003 18:33

That this vigilantism is quite popular among the affected communities. "Joyriders" often deliberately run people down. Its not surprising that ordinary working class people feel they have a right to be protected against this.

Rstorative justice is something which has very much been pushed by Republicans as the answer but local people often demand direct action against joyriders, rapists etc.

by King Mob Tue Jan 28, 2003 18:25

About the puinishment beatings they dish out to teenage joyriders?

How are they going to quash that piece of anti social behaviour?

Knee cap themselves?