McGuinness Tells US State Dept to get out of Shannon

by Alan Thu Jan 30, 2003 12:28

Bunreacht na h-Eireann is the Constitution of the Republic of Ireland, not any nation known as the "South of Ireland". Surely a citizen of Buncrana (which is north of Mr. McGuinness's native Derry) cannot be a citizen of the "South of Ireland". Is this more of Sinn Féin doublespeak? Surely they recognised the legitimacy of the Irish Republic when they solemnly signed the Good Friday Agreement with the government of the Irish Republic and the government of the United Kingdom.?

Buncrana is geographically in the north of Ireland. So is Belfast. Cork is geographically in the south of Ireland, as is Kerry.

Confused.

by Justin Moran - Sinn Fein Thu Jan 30, 2003 12:55 maigh_nuad at yahoo dot com

We recognise the government of this State as the sole and legitimate government of this State. Deeply, deeply flawed though it is. It's a nice enough State, you boys have done well in places since you attacked and destroyed the Irish Republic in 1922-23, but simply because you stole the name and the flag of the Irish Republic, doesn't make it so.

Trolling, trolling, trolling.

by Cathal Goulding Thu Jan 30, 2003 12:57

Now Alan you know well that the WP recognised the legitimacy of the British Parliament a long time ago. Even in 1982 you stood for the "NI" assembley on the basis that you would enter a coalition with the UUP.

by Joe Momma Thu Jan 30, 2003 13:30

"It's my view that the Constitution of the south of Ireland needs to be defended by all political parties"

Hilarious. I wonder if Martin has read the following articles of said document:

9.2 Fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State are fundamental political duties of all citizens.

15.6.1 The right to raise and maintain military or armed forces is vested exclusively in the Oireachtas.

15.6.2 No military or armed force, other than a military or armed force raised and maintained by the Oireachtas, shall be raised or maintained for any purpose whatsoever.

Then again, Sinn Féin have long defended their entitlement to say whatever they like without really meaning it.

by pat c Thu Jan 30, 2003 13:56

i wonder what alan & joe & the other trolls really stand for? why are they intent on disrupting anti war campaigning?

why launch these attacks on sf when the thread is about opposition to the war.

do you not understand what a single issue campaign is?

i have differences with the wp, sp etc. but i dont bring up those differences on threads about the gulf war.

if everyone attacks everyone on every point of difference on every occasion the it just descends into lunacy.

by donal Thu Jan 30, 2003 14:21

if martin mcguinness is now calling for a defence of the republic's constitution can we expect a full debriefing on what he knows about individuals or groups who have spent the last 30 years attempting to destroy it.

the us right now may be an enemy to world peace but as any native of shannon who remembers the early 80's will know sinn fein are the prime enemies of freedom, of the rule of law and of the sanctity of life in this country -whatever it may suit them to say today

by Hebe Thu Jan 30, 2003 14:39

Can we expect a full debriefing on what you know about individuals or groups who are trying to destroy the Anti Gulf War movement by posting divisive and off topic messages to Indymedia?

by Alex - Young Fine Gael Thu Jan 30, 2003 15:38

They say irony died when Henry Kissinger received the Nobel Peace Prize. Well well, Martin Maginnis the defender of Irish neutrality – move over Henry you old war criminal you – there is a new star in town!

He wasn’t so concerned, not so long ago when he and his ilk tried to subvert our state at every turn – including murdering members of the Gardai and Irish Army (the one raised by Oireachtas Éireann lads), robbed banks, and caused mayhem in Northern Ireland for 30 years.

Of course, that’s all supposed to be forgotton now, isn’t it, when it was all really in the name of peace. Let the revisionist historians begin!

by Hebe Thu Jan 30, 2003 16:21

Alex,

Remember when FG tried to subvert the State at every turn? When your Deputies appeared in the Dail in Blue shirts and gave the Nazi salute? When Fitzgerald spoke in the house praising Hitler and Mussolini?

When Blue Shirts regularly clashed with the garda? Especially in defence of big farmers.

Who could forget the Mussolini style March on Dublin called by your party when they attempted a Coup?

Or the FG organising of O'Duffys brigade to fight on behalf of Fascism in Spain?

Lets not forget Oliver J. Flanagan who at the height of WWII supported Hitlers treatment of Jews. ( Its in the Dail records). FG were happy to subsequently have Flanagan as a Cabinet Minister. He didn't even have to withdraw (let apologise for) his pro Hitler and Anti Semitic remarks.

I wont call Kenny a racist; hes just an ignoramus.

by Alex - Young Fine Gael Thu Jan 30, 2003 16:33

What are you talking about. The most vocal opponent of the Nazis at the time was was James Dillon, who went on to become leader of FG, ststing that we could not stand by and watch countries fall to the Nazis, or ignore the persecution of the Jews. Need I remind you that there are many Jews in FG, in fact we had a Jewish TD until last year, so go and get your facts straight before you try attacking the party that established the state.

As for the Blue Shirts, to state that they attacked the Gardai - what are you on! The Blue Shirts were set up to protect free speach (remember there was a tall man with glasses about at the time who seemed to think that 'traitors' did not deserve free speech), And mostly, the Blue Shirts were there to protect Fine Gael meetings from being broken up by the IRA!

I do not condone O'Duffys support for Mussollini, but that was something he did when he was long gone from FG. By the way, he never held a parlimentary position in FG.

WE have nothing to be ashamed of!

by Hebe Thu Jan 30, 2003 17:23

"What are you talking about. "

Oliver J Flanagan speaking on
the Emergency Powers (Continuance) Bill, 1943
Dáil Éireann Volume 91 09 July, 1943
http://www.oireachtas-debates.gov.ie/

'How is it that we do not see any of these Acts directed against the Jews, who crucified Our Saviour nineteen hundred years ago, and who are crucifying us every day in the week? How is it that we do not see them directed against the Masonic Order?

'There is one thing that Germany did, and that was to rout the Jews out of their country. Until we rout the Jews out of this country it does not matter a hair's breadth what orders you make. Where the bees are there is the honey, and where the Jews are there is the money.'

This is the man who went on to be a FG Cabinet Minister.

"As for the Blue Shirts, to state that they attacked the Gardai - what are you on! "

You are ignorant of your own history. There was the case of the Blueshirt shot dead in a clash with the Garda in Cork. He was among a Fscist group which was attempting to illegally release the cattle of a big farmer which had been seized by the State. Even your house propagandist, Maurice Manning covers many other such incidents in his book on the Blueshirts.

Your Deputies in Dail Eireann wore Blue Shirts and gave the fascist salute. Check any history book. Check the Dail Records re FG support for Hitler & Mussolini.
http://www.oireachtas-debates.gov.ie/

The Blue Shirts with the backing of FG organised a march on Dublin. An attempted Fascist Putsch. They backed down in the face of a State ban and the knowledge that a massive demonstration was being organised by Republicans & Socialists to oppose them. (This is covered even in Secondary School textbooks.)

"WE have nothing to be ashamed of!"

I'm not surprised that you are proud of this heritage.

by Confused Country Folk Thu Jan 30, 2003 17:42

What Anarchists using the free state constitution to slag republicans. Usually its all SF loves USA, it won't say anything. It does say something and now the anarchists run to defend the state from these awful republicans.
I thought all anarchists were anti- state ........

by Hebe Thu Jan 30, 2003 18:04

Alan is a Stick

Alex is YFG

Is Joe Momma an Anarchist?

by Badman Thu Jan 30, 2003 18:54

Not from anarchists, this comes from SWP people I'd guess (or maybe SP).

by Joe Momma Thu Jan 30, 2003 19:17

I suppose I'm an anarchist with a small A and maybe a Green with a big G.

As for using the constitution, Martin started it! Given the choice between Bunreacht na hÉireann and Óglaigh na hÉireann (Provisional), I'll take the former any day of the week!

I've no intention of stirring up division within the anti-war movement, but I have to question Sinn Féin's credibility. Anybody who's reading Indymedia has probably already made up their mind on the war and it hardly matters if we have a little healthy debate amongst ourselves.

by Phuq Hedd Thu Jan 30, 2003 19:52

What are you talking about. The most vocal opponent of the Nazis at the time was was James Dillon, who went on to become leader of FG, ststing that we could not stand by and watch countries fall to the Nazis.

Please! "The most vocal opponent"? In Fine Gael perhaps! What exactly are your terms of reference here? The world? Human beings consisting of James Dillon?

by Joe MacManus Thu Jan 30, 2003 23:26 Sligo

McGuinness has a cheek talking about defending the constitution. He's the c**t who sold out on Articles 2&3 back in ’98. As for foreign War Machines, he now carries around the red box as one of Her Majesties loyal servants.
He should just F**k Off back to Londonderry

by pat c Fri Jan 31, 2003 12:37

"He should just F**k Off back to Londonderry"

heh! heh! hard to knock that...

i remember a bloody sunday commemoration years ago when there were a lot of basques & catalans present.

martin welcomed the "spanish comrades"!