Belfast Anti-War Public Meeting

by Magneto Wed Feb 19, 2003 11:20

Be at the meeting?

How sectarian canyou get, the SP totally ignore a much larger broad based Youth Anti War group.

by two men and a dog Wed Feb 19, 2003 12:33

Two weeks ago YAW in Belfast postered for and called a public meeting and apart from seven members of SSAW at the meeting who went along to ask them to get involved with the broad based SSAW,in the room sat two SP fulltimers one in his thirties claiming to be YAW and that they represented the youth it was both embarrassing and bizarre. This week over three hundred and twenty school students went to a SSAW debate in Belfast, A short television piece has been shown about them as well as loads of things in the newspapers.

I agree it is not only sectarian but cult like for a handful of people to cut them selves of from everyone else. The demonstration on belfast demo seen them running around giving placcards to young people so they could take a picture probably to say that they were all YAW. I am surprised we have not seen one yet or that have yet stated they had scores or hundreds on the demonstration I cannot wait until they do. As for their meeting that night would they not be better helping to organise the south belfast stop the war coalition meeting that night in the same area as I think they have claimed somewhere that they were part of the coalition.

by For all to know Wed Feb 19, 2003 13:19

It is common knowledge amongst all those involved that the SWP initiated the anti war movement and the coalition and put all the work in. That is why I think that two of the five speakers were associated with the SWP and that the ICTU leadership thanked the SWP from the platform. The Socialist party in Belfast came only to two coalition meetings to attempt to argue for a YAW speaker who everyone knows represents nothing in Belfast therefore in a nice way told them it would not be appropiate.

The Socialist Party have done little if anything within the coalition that is why all those groups sided with the SWP and those speakers who are seen to be the backbone of the movement. So it should be no suprise that they try to hold their own party meeting at the same time and in the same area as where the coalition meeting is taking place as they play little role within it. So not to worry.

by cleo conlon Wed Feb 19, 2003 14:07

One minute you call the SP brit soldier lovers, with the next breath you call them sectarian fenians, make your mind up which is it?

by Chris Henry - Socialist Youth Coleraine Wed Feb 19, 2003 14:08 lavosfanfiction at hotmail dot com

Interesting to note how the previous speakers claim that the SP are "sectarian" to cut themselves off from the School Students Against War campaign. It is a crying shame that people such as these have little more argument than to use hyperbole and buzzwords which have little place in the reality of the situation.
Firstly, it should be realised, that Youth Against War came BEFORE School Students Against War, and has been operating for months. I personally have been tramping down the anti-war trail time enough now, I should know.
It also saddens me to look and see SWP advocates (I'm not sure if you people are members so I won't go as far as saying so) use such ridiculous arguments such as to talk of sectarianism with the SP and their attitude towards the youth. It's as ridiculous as the SWP being investigated in the south for anti-semitism, although sadly this has occured in a public way and not a messageboard, and as such could have a profound effect on the future of all leftish groups over months to come.
Do members of the left undermine each other with these petty and ridiculous arguments regarding each others actions? I certainly believe so. If I wanted to become an SWP baiter then I would be on this forum like you people everyday trying to rip holes in the work that they do. Thankfully I, and many in the SP just like many in the SWP don't think in this blinkered and pathetic way.
If I wanted to, I could equally turn around and call the SWP "sectarian" and even "cult-like" to have started their own School Students Against War movement, since at the end of the day they are the backbone behind it. However, both terms are as incorrect as each other, and any true SWP member will know this. Youth Against War is a broad based anti-war youth movement with a view of not only bringing people into anti-war activity, but also bringing them into socialist ideas and explaining why such conflicts will continue to occur in the future. I am personally insulted by anyone who would claim that the only reason I was in Belfast on Saturday was to recruit members to YAW, as unlike some people within the left, I am actually opposed to this war rather than seeing it as some sort of opportunity for the left to rise. The revelation today concerning the new nuclear capabilities of the United States is a fearsome prospect, and one that strikes terror into my heart in terms of both ordinary people in the Middle-East and also myself. I was there on Saturday, as a member of Youth Against War rather than School Students Against War because I believe in the politics rather than the flashy outcome of a demonstration. I think a few on the left movement would need to start keeping that in mind. Demonstrations are all very good, but some of us have been working under duress (and local threat, i may add) in order to keep the anti-war consciousness alive and kicking, in order to create the means necessary to help stop it. I am dedicated to stopping this war, and I think we should all start looking at that as a primary goal rather than accusing other socialists from different standpoints regarding their own brand of beliefs. Critical and justified debate is all well and good; hyperbole and buzzwords are unfair, and we shouldn't be so prone to using them in regard to each other.

by John - SP Wed Feb 19, 2003 14:34

It is a trifle inconsistent of the SWP to smear the SP for their lack of mass support. A few months back, after their candidates embarassed themselves in the election, the SWP was begging the SP to form an electoral alliance. The argument they used was that unity among socialists was more important than one organization's gains. A few months later...

by Magneto Wed Feb 19, 2003 14:36

The 300 members SSAW are sad sectarian bastards because they wont accept the leadership of the 2 (elderly) SP fulltimers who comprise YAW in Belfast.

by Radek Wed Feb 19, 2003 14:40

Apart From Joe and Clare, the SP werent covered in glory in the last Dail election.

You wont save any deposits in the coming Stormont poll.

by Chris Henry - Socialist Youth Coleraine Wed Feb 19, 2003 15:20 lavosfanfiction at hotmail dot com

"The 300 members SSAW are sad sectarian bastards because they wont accept the leadership of the 2 (elderly) SP fulltimers who comprise YAW in Belfast."

Magento... did you even read what I had to say? But I suppose if we want to let the left-wing fall in this country we should continue to put words into the mouths of our adopted opposition, even if they are also socialists and left-wingers. Fair play to the SSAW members, they're against war. Fair play also to the members of YAW, who are also fighting against War in Iraq. And as for being "sectarian"... I'm sorry friend, but do you even understand what that word means? It is a childish term bandied about by those who cannot think of an intellegent argument to counteract something that they do not believe in. It is a word that should be less used, especially in the context of a completely non-sectarian party in terms of the Socialist Party, and ESPECIALLY not from someone supporting a party who pushed their members to vote Sinn Fein at one time. Or are Sinn Finn a base of neutrality in the Northern Irish political spectrum?

Let's leave this ridiculous issue (and it isn't an issue as any intellegent person knows) of "sectarianism" aside in terms of both the SP and the SWP. This is a campaign against the War in Iraq; let's treat it as such, and have a bit of solidarity in the left for once, on all sides.

by taking no more Wed Feb 19, 2003 15:36

Check comment 9 on Belfast signs up 100 lecturers aginst war

by John - SP Wed Feb 19, 2003 15:40

"Apart From Joe and Clare, the SP werent covered in glory in the last Dail election.

You won't save any deposits in the coming Stormont poll."

SWP candidates have never saved their deposit, never will. Joe and Clare have a genuine working class support in their communities, something no SWP candidate has ever had and never will have.

by A BIT RICH Wed Feb 19, 2003 15:46

DiDn't the west belfast anti war movement set up by swp members and supporters, who lead the rally spoke at the rally and chaired the rally mobilise 1000 people through w/belfast under the anti war movement banner on FEB15th?

by Magneto Wed Feb 19, 2003 17:56

Go to: http://www.geocities.com/socialistparty/news.htm

You will see 3 elderly men looking after the SY/YAW stall.

by Community support Wed Feb 19, 2003 18:26

Peter hadden lives in west belfast {SP} as does Davy carlin {SWP.} The SWP helped bring 1000 people onto West Belfast streets on feb 15th while Hadden stood with several people behind a stall in the city centre. The SWP in West Belfast were the main organisers including Davy Carlin for the Falls and Shankill march just prior which united catholic and protestants. Isn't Peter Hadden the N.Ireland General Secretary {or some title like that} What was that about working class support in the communities?