Israel and Iraq an objective comparison

by Avi Harari Fri Feb 21, 2003 10:07

Your analysis is quite wrong and far from being objective; so wrong, in fact, that I doubt whether you have actually ever been to either country. Well, I have been to both and I can tell you the following:

Israel is not subject to a cult of personality: Iraq is. Israel is a genuine democracy: Iraq is definitely not.

Has invaded neighbours: Israel has no territorial ambitions against the states of Egypt, Jordan or Syria. This is demonstrated by the peace treaty with Egypt under which it withdrew from Sinai in return for a promise of non-aggression from Egypt. Its sole interest is to provide itself with secure borders.

Assasinates political opponents: Israel does not assassinate political opponents. It only takes out terrorists who are in the process of preparing murders of innocent Israelis. This is self-defence.

Discriminates Against Minorities: Israel is the only Jewish state in the world. However, Arabs are free to live there and have the vote. Contrast this with discrimination against Jews in Arab states and the Palestinian Authority's requirement that all Jews leave territory that it claims.

Sponsors Terrorism: Israel does not deliberately target innocent civilians. It simply uses unconventional warfare against terrorists. This again is self-defence.

Nuclear/Biological/Chemical Threat: Israel probably has such weapons, but, unlike Iraq, it has never used them. Moreover, it has never threatened its neighbours with them. Since it is surrounded by a large number of Arab states baying for its blood, these weapons are probably felt to be a guarantee of its survival against great odds.

Ignores UN resolutions: the interpretation of UN resolutions is often biased against Israel. In particular, this applies to resolution 242. Moreover, the General Assembly of the UN is full of states that hate Israel per se, so cannot be trusted to be impartial.

Tortures and Interns Prisoners: Israel may torture prisoners in some respects: this is only to extract information regarding imminent threats to life and limb. Other people are interned to prevent them from murdering Israelis indiscriminately.

Practices ethnic cleansing: Israel does not practise ethnic cleansing. You are not aware of the massive power of the Israeli armed forces. If they wanted to ethnically cleanse the West Bank or Gaza, they could do it in a week. Clearly, they haven't.

Occupies territory of other states: the only territory of another state still occupied is the Golan Heights. This was used to fire shells at Israeli towns and settlements. That's the only reason it is retained. The West Bank and Gaza are not other states: West Bank is disputed territory no longer claimed by Jordan. Gaza has been given up by Egypt. No Palestinian state has ever existed in either. Once the threat to Israeli lives ends, their situation can be regularised.

by kokomero Fri Feb 21, 2003 15:42

First of all I have been to both Israel and Jordan and have nothing against the Israeli people or people of Jewish faith or race.

I think the Israeli people are equally the victims of bad government and brainwashing as many other peoples including the Iraqis.

You yourself from your posting are obviously the victim of brainwashing as you believe that all rights are ascribed to you and the Israeli people at the expense of your neighbours and minorities.

Going to the kernel of your argument you appear to believe that the end justifies the end in pursuing your own national agenda over everyone elses dead body if necessary.

Democratic states do not mistreat their citizens and deprive them of their rights.

They do not invade neighbouring states and annex their territory and ethnically cleanse it, or threaten them directly or otherwise with nuclear weapons.

They do not assassinate their opponents, rather they bring them to justice and subject them to the due process of law.

Democtaric states do subject themselves to the will of the international community of states by respecting international law and making peace with their neighbours, especially where they can do so from a position of economic or military strength.

There are no shortcuts in a democracy appealing as it might appear in the short term, in the long term what they seek to preserve through these means is itself diminished.

I put it to you that Israel is not a true democracy in the sense that all normal democratic structures and processes can be conveniently set aside whenever a more expedient (military) solution is to hand.

by Avi Harari Fri Feb 21, 2003 23:25

Let those who read this discussion make up their own minds on whose argument is more cogent.