The Sparts

by Sectologist Sun Mar 23, 2003 19:04

If the CIA give money to the Sparts then the CIA are stupid. The Sparts are too peripheral to be of much use in actually damaging the left. About all they do which is damaging to the left is to disrupt the odd meeting or give some poor soul who they talk to on a protest the impression that the left is barking mad. Not really a good return on an investment.

Generally I think that throwing around accusations of "working for the CIA" or being "state agents" or whatever is a very bad idea - even if it comes with a disclaimer. Such allegations are impossible to prove or disprove but have the effect of poisoning the general atmosphere on the left very quickly indeed.

On the other stuff raised above, I think that it's a bit sick to bring up somebody's suicide as a way of scoring a cheap debating point.

The whole Afghanistan thing is something of a legend on the left. The Sparts proudly proclaim that they said "Hail Red Army!" when the Soviets went in. The rumour that they offered to send an international brigade of hardened fighting superbolsheviks over to smash the mujahedin has circulated for a long time and I'm sorry to hurt a truly inspired story but I'm not sure that it is actually true. Maybe somebody could ask them. I do know that the rumour inspired some less than charitable punters to consider starting their own "send a Spart to Afghanistan" campaign.

The age of consent allegation is certainly true although again it comes packaged with a vicious claim that some leader of theirs was accused of child abuse. I can't emphasis enough that serious accusations like that shouldn't be thrown around casually. The Sparts professed views on sex with children are disturbing enough without adding unsubstantiated rumours.

Their horrible views on the subject did lead them to run one of the most inspired if sick headlines I have ever seen. After a well known r'n'b singer was charged with having sex with a girl below the age of consent their report was headlined "There's nothing wrong with a little bump and grind - Defend R Kelly". Yes, really.

by Spart Watcher Mon Mar 24, 2003 12:15

I have a nasty image in my head of a spart getting down to some "bump and grind".

Does anyone know what the Sparts get up to when they're not at demos? Do they enjoy themselves? Do these people have friends, family, girlfriends (that are over 18),jobs? Where do they live?

I heard off someone recently that one of the Sparts were seen in a pub in Templebar one weekend, and that he has a girlfriend (do the others know about this?). Or is it true that they all live in the same house and have weird sexual initiation tests for new members? Is it also true that the Sparts are flown out of their own country so that their family and friends cant rescue them. Ever know an Irish Spart? They're usually flown off to Austria or somewhere else!

by Intransigent Mon Mar 24, 2003 22:22

Defend the Chinese Workers State! Yeah go Sparts????

by Trainspotter Tue May 09, 2006 11:48

I agree that the Sparts often give an extremely sectarian impression, but also I agree that we should be very careful with cop-baiting and using cheap points as someone's suicide.

About the Sparts and paedophilia, their position isn't as ugly as one might think, even though it is of course flawed. They're simply saying that the state oughta stay out of the bedrooms, that watching already produced images of child porn doesn't constitute abuse (no less than watching images of murders etc that are now widely available in the shady corners of the Net) and the recognise paedophilia as a oppressed sexual minority, just as homosexuality. They did defend and build up NAMBLA (not AMBLA). About the Spart member accused for abuse I suspect that would be someone who is now in the IBT. I'm sure you can find more info on their website, http://www.bolshevik.org

The IBT:s Trotskyist Bulletin, issue 8, also carries an extensive report, with internal gossip, about the Spart brigade to Afghanistan, which was planned, however stopped by the Afghans. Read all about what Spart leader Robertson himself dubbed the "Mad Marx Brigade", and the plans to recruit from mental hospitals to it at http://www.bolshevik.org/TB/tb8contents.html

by Historian Tue May 09, 2006 11:57

Previously I had considered them a harmless and rather amusing sect best known for their clumsy and ridiculously long slogans.

Now I see that they are a far more sinister and degenerate bunch. The Bolshevik contagion corrupts everyone it touches.

by ReformistWatch Tue May 09, 2006 12:20

I had s 'duke' at the Sparts site and emmensly enjoyed the letter they sent to "the Socialist" newspaper of the SP/CWI that, I assume, wasn't published.

Has anyone seen the Parliamentry Road to Socialism?

Peter Taaffe's Reformism
20 April 2006

The Editor,

On 22 Feb BBC Radio 4 broadcast a programme on the Militant group in the 1980s. The programme ended with a short exchange - the interviewer asking Peter Taaffe about his views on the relevance of revolution in 2006.

Interviewer: “You still think the revolution will come?”

Taaffe: “Well, what do you mean by revolution?”

Interviewer: “The overthrow of capitalism.”

Taaffe: “Well yes, the change in society, established through winning a majority in elections.”

I have asked various Socialist Party members about this explicit reformist statement by the leader of their international tendency. They have assured me that the Taaffe quote was edited to remove revolutionary content and that there would be a correction. It is true that Taaffe's final sentence does sound as though it may have been cut short. While I struggle to think what magic words he could have spoken to transform this abject reformism into a revolutionary perspective I gave your comrades the benefit of the doubt and decided to wait for a correction.

Patience is of course a virtue, but two months have passed since and still no correction - in either your press or your online material. Can I therefore assume that you do in fact endorse Taaffe's reformist statement, as it was broadcast?

by Trainspotter Tue May 09, 2006 14:32

Did I write flawed? I must've misunderstood the meaning of the word, 'cause the Spart's position on child porn and paedophilia is really relativising the victims of rape and child abuse. I stand by that and nothing else...

by Mario PI Tue May 09, 2006 18:48

That letter was actually from Alan Davis of the International Bolshevik Tendency.