Shannon Demo, March 30

by Fintan Lane - Cork Anti-War Campaign Wed Mar 26, 2003 23:04 corkantiwar at hotmail dot com

The broad-based Cork Anti-War Campaign will be running buses to the National Demonstration in Dublin this coming Saturday. We believe that it is essential that as many people as possible attend this demonstration and we are calling on all in the Cork region to travel on the day. Buses will leave from the Opera House at 9.30am and return tickets will be E16 (or E12 unwaged).

We are also asking people to support the demo on Sunday in Shannon and have included details of this on our email bulletin. I'm afraid I have no idea why Jennifer (above) feels the need to counterpose the two demonstrations, which is clearly implied in her criticisms of Dublin protests. I am also a 'member' of the Cork Peace Alliance and this is the first I've heard of such a policy towards Dublin demonstrations.

by CONFUSED Wed Mar 26, 2003 23:40

Read elsewhere that dead slow march was leaving town centre at 2

by Dominic Carroll - Clonakilty Against the War Thu Mar 27, 2003 00:00 clonakiltyagainstthewar at eircom dot net

Jennifer Moore of the CPA says: ‘The government is unlikely to be moved by numbers marching around their offices in Dublin, they’ve seen it all before and rarely does it make any difference.’ An interesting debating point, but not on the eve of a national demonstration in Dublin, please. I supported the last Grass Roots protest at Shannon, whilst not entirely convinced of the plan – amongst other things, my participation was motivated by the notion of solidarity (remember that?). And yes, marching against the war is thankless, but as a method of protest, it has of course been central to opposition movements throughout the world throughout modern history (most recently East Germany, Romania, Serbia – need I go on?). As far as I’m aware, nobody has claimed it should be the sole tactic, but it would be a mistake to undervalue or devalue the importance of national demonstrations. Please don’t attempt to build one demo by talking down another one. I, and many others heading to Dublin on Saturday, have ensured that information regarding Sunday’s important and worthwhile demo has been circulated. But I’ve chosen Dublin over Shannon (this time) because of the need to take the protest onto the streets of the capital yet again. On Sunday, I’ll be attending a vigil for peace in Clonakilty – I suspect that this little gathering is unlikely to stop the war by itself, but every little helps. Good luck in Shannon.

by D. Public Thu Mar 27, 2003 00:13

I have to add there needs to be something else on saturday to distinguish from last week!
We are not willing to stay stagnant just marching and chanting.
Remember K.Allen calling for civil disobedience last Sat. if I remember correctly the 10,000 or so there sounded like they agreed with hi,!
Are national demo must reflect our escalated frustration and there are many peaceful ways this can be done.
I suggest Blockade, sit-down etc....
The options are numerous as are the locations .
Are the IAWM going to act on their words, they only have this last chance to make a REAL STANCE!
Are they serious about stopping the use of Shannon or is it another day of, 'pass the mike!Mick'.

by Also confused Thu Mar 27, 2003 00:31

2pm at Town centre or 2pm at the Archway?
I thought it was the former and have knocked out some flyers with that on them. Hope that's right.

by Cork wan Thu Mar 27, 2003 00:59

I'm going to try to get to both Dublin and Shannon but it's obvious to me anyway that Dublin is more important this time - we need a big turnout at the national demonstration. I can't stress enough how important it is. Dublin is top of my list, but i will try for shannon as well.

by Antiwar activist Thu Mar 27, 2003 01:44

Was this sent to the media as a press release? If so, it's a downright disgrace in the lead up to a large national demo in Dublin. Why can't Cork Peace Alliance support both?

by Cleaver Thu Mar 27, 2003 11:36

Any details of buses going from Dublin to Shannon on sunday?

by Andrew Thu Mar 27, 2003 11:38

I think people are getting a little carried away in attacking the CPA statement. The line they seem to object to is I presume the one that reads "The government is unlikely to be moved by numbers marching around their offices in Dublin, they?ve seen it all before and rarely does it make any difference.". After 100,000+ marched around their offices in Dublin this would seem to be pretty much a statement of fact. Perhaps the phrasing is unfortunate (if I wrote it I'd have said that people should still get to the Dublin march) but its hardly on the level of saying that the Dublin march is 'an insignificant minority'.

I'll still be on the Dublin march but lets not fool ourselves that the marches are going to end Irish involvement in the war - if that was the case F15 would have achieved this. Beyond this however I think we need to be a lot more open to discussing where do we go from here. Unfortunatly it appears a lot of people who marched on F15 actually feel quite disempowered by the whole thing because it had no visible effect on government policy and no serious alternative directions to go in were presented by the organisers.

Unity is important but not at the cost of doing what appears to be going on here - trying to silence anyone who points out the emperor has no clothes.

by Kommy - CPA in exile, personal capacity Thu Mar 27, 2003 11:58

CPA is a collection of individuals from different backgrounds including anarchists, greens, SP, SWP, communists, WP and others. As such, there is rarely a definitive position taken by the group, although there is often broad agreement on many issues. Most people involved in CPA have recognised that different forms of direct action at Shannon are preferable to mass marches in Dublin, which many believe lead to disempowerment. Most also believe that there is a place for such marches and CPA people have consistently advertised for, organised buses for and attended marches in Dublin.

It should be noted that the words in question in the news story are a direct quote from a participant in CPA and do not necessarily represent the views of the CPA (even if most might agree with the sentiments). It is the nature of an organisation that does not have a strict policy that every participant must adhere to, that divergent views will be expressed. This is the beauty of such organisations because this leads to debate and more informed participants, even if total agreement is not reached.

by David Rynne Thu Mar 27, 2003 12:57

I'm having a really serious dilemna. I wanna watch the rugby game!!! Stupid shannon.. stupid conscience..stupid war... damn.. I guess i'll have to settle for the highlights :(

And as for the solidarity issue, I think that there should be maximum support for the marches by those interested in direct action. Even if DA proponents do not believe that marching will end the war, the visibility of numbers on the streets is very helpful as it gives activists "a mandate" to support their actions (even if the activists do not believe they require one)

by Dominic Carroll - Clonakilty Against the War Thu Mar 27, 2003 13:08 clonakiltyagainstthewar at eircom dot net

It’s unfortunate, to say the least, that Andrew, like Jennifer Moore of the CPA, is deriding this Saturday’s national demonstration in Dublin at the very moment so many people are expending time and effort to build it. Andrew says: ‘Lets not fool ourselves that the marches are going to end Irish involvement in the war – if that was the case F15 would have achieved this.’ Frankly, I’m surprised at such simplicity. It’s the equivalent of me saying that there’s no point in going to Shannon on Sunday as I’m 100% certain that it won’t stop the war.

Bringing a halt to this war will require a global struggle comprised of hundreds of thousands of actions. At the appropriate moments, we can debate the relative merits of each and all of them. But to deliberately obstruct the efforts of those working to build opposition to the war just days before a national demonstration is unpardonable. Get onside, Andrew.

by Andrew Thu Mar 27, 2003 13:38

Dominc, please read what I said rather then having the usual knee jerk reaction to what you think I said. I made it clear that I will be on Saturdays march so I'm obviously in favour of everyone being on it.

But your quite right that I question the ability of marches ON THEIR OWN to stop refuelling (not to mention the war). This probably is not what you believe, you probably like me recognise that marchers are part of a set of activities that include direct action, strikes etc. So lets not invent disagreement by pretending that either of us think differently (unless I misunderstand where you are coming from).

The problem however is that the IAWM as a whole is moving at the speed of the slowest ship in order to preserve unity. This means creating the (disasterous) impression that token action will be enough to change the minds of the politicans. It has meant actively attacking and discouraging direct actions, I suspect that is changing.

That emperor has no clothes and this needs to be said even if it makes some feel uncomfortable. I think that is all that the CPA statement intended, at least that is all I read into it. We need to be careful that in order to maintain (really 'create') unity we don't seek to squash dissent. To date trying to squash dissent far from building unity has caused deeper divides.

by Fintan Lane - Cork Anti-War Campaign Thu Mar 27, 2003 14:34 corkantiwar at hotmail dot com

I've made inquiries this morning regarding the press statement that was to be issued by the Cork Peace Alliance, and I can confirm that what was issued above does not represent what was agreed. The CPA agreed to also support the Dublin demonstration and that was to receive equal recognition in the press statement.

The piece above is a misrepresentation. The CPA, as I expected, supports both events.

by Terry Thu Mar 27, 2003 14:48

Any information on buses from the various cities to Shannon on Sunday?

Also urban buses generally do not begin service on Sundays until about 9.30am or so.
This might be problematic for some

by Joe Thu Mar 27, 2003 15:03

My understanding is that Dublin GNAW are organising cars to go to Shannon for Sunday rather then hiring a coach - contact the email address or mobile if you are interested in going from Dublin.

by Angry anarchist Thu Mar 27, 2003 18:11

What? Dublin GNAW are not running even a single bus! Are you people serious?

by Another Angry Anarchist Thu Mar 27, 2003 18:45

The irresponsible decision to deploy cars instead of buses to convey our forces from Dublin and other major Irish cities to the Grassroots protest at Shannon threatens an ecological disaster: 12,000 cars approx. multiplied by an average 5 gallons of petrol = 60,000 gallons.

Worse, it leaves us open to air attack by Coalition forces. The Yanks have deployed the most sophisticated satellite trackers and electronic-surveillance hardware to detect large conveys. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that when they spot the countless conveys of cars snaking their way west, ‘errant’ cruise missiles may be launched to take out our leaders.

And then there’s the practical considerations: it must be obvious that as the lead cars arrive at Shannon, those at the tail of the conveys will not even have left Dublin, Cork, Belfast, Rockall, etc.

We need to rethink this one. How about we cycle to Shannon, taking care to stagger departure times?

by Conor - Shannon peace house Fri Mar 28, 2003 00:51

1000's are expected.(haha)

by James Sat Mar 29, 2003 00:29

CPA supports both marches but has prioritised organising for Shannon consistent with previous work.

Many CPA activists will travel to both.

by James Sat Mar 29, 2003 00:52

After postering for the Shannon demo Sat and Sunday I was postering for the Dublin demo on Tuesday night after the CPA meeting making sure as always not to cover other peoples posters even the religious ones.

Distributed leaflets for the Shannon march at the Cork march and ones for the Dublin march all week.

I don't think a gentle criticism of the idea of marching again in Dublin is going to do any harm it might even restart the debate on tactics.

I am not against marches in Dublin per se but we should be evolving surely. Its poor to have the same stale tactics applied over and over when the effects seem minimal. It is plain that many components of the broad anti-war movement are against doing anything of any consequence in Shannon. Thats their choice. I'll back the Shannon option as one that has delivered some results and has the potential to do so again.

Good luck to all who choose to march in Dublin. But I still say getting Shannon closed to US warplanes through mass action could have significant effects on the war.Especially now with 120,000 US troops needed fast in IRAQ

by jennifer - cpa Sat Mar 29, 2003 00:54

i too support attending both marches. i am an idividual who was quoted in a press release. Sorry if my quote raised hairs in the movement because it wasn't intended to deter people from the dublin march but i did intend emphasise the importance of shannon.