SWP attempt to break police lines

by another observer Tue Apr 08, 2003 12:54

I did not hear any such call to break police lines last night.

by SpinDoc Tue Apr 08, 2003 13:01

http://www.indymedia.ie/cgi-bin/newswire.cgi?id=41409
for why

by Gavin Tue Apr 08, 2003 13:09

If you were at the protest you would have witnessed Richie pleading with people to stay out of the field so as to not let the crowd break up. The allegation that he was encouraging it is ridiculous!

by another observer - cia watch Tue Apr 08, 2003 13:17

No defintely wrong on this one, friend.
WE arrived at the police lines and instituted a sit down.The sit down was to make sure everyone could see what was going on at the front where the cops were and to make it more difficult for the cops to panic us. There was crowding at the front so some people spilled into the field to relieve pressure. After that a provocation took place with a 'pro-war protester' attempting to disrupt the crowd. So everybody was a little nervous after that. Then a few people called on us to go into the field. The stewards including richard called on people to remain with the main body of the protest which the overwhelming majority did- not least because hiilsborough was aapparently in the other direction, but also because the RUC would likely have used it as an excuse to attack us.
well done to all the stewards yesterday and well done to all who contributed to organising the march at such sgot notice. Keep up the good work and f*** the begrudgers.

by Asterix Tue Apr 08, 2003 13:18

This is so like the story about Davy Carlin putting schoolkids in danger. It turned out that was really a SP spin to hide the fact that Peter Hadden had turned Tout.

Was Hadden up to his Touting activities again? Was he screaming the names of activists in front of the cops?

by Badman Tue Apr 08, 2003 13:21

...of spoiling Bush's party. If there had been scenes of violence from the cops then the headlines all over the world would have been:
"violent protests as Blair and Bush meet"
As it is the headlines will be:
"Bush and Blair meet" with a tiny postscript about a few hundred protestors (this will get maybe 3 seconds in Ireland, 1 second in the UK and nothing anywhere else).

I'd say that the massive mobilisation was intended to intimidate the protestors into not trying anything, rather than to beat them up. I'd wager that it would have taken a lot to make the RUC have a go at the crowd and that there was actually significant leeway for pushing the envelope and attempting to get around the police defences.

However, the IAWM's centcom would hardly understand this or dare do anything that might break the law. The r-r-revolutionaries are many times more conservative than the catholics!

by good man - high horse league Tue Apr 08, 2003 13:43

I saw a big report on Euronews which showed a subsatntial portion of the demo. There were also news reporters from the middle east at the protest so i am sure it was reported more extensively over there. It is really important that we keep up the mass protests now tha the cameras will be leaving iraq and the us/uk can get down to some seious tyranny.

by Badman Tue Apr 08, 2003 13:49

"It is really important that we keep up the mass protests now tha the cameras will be leaving iraq"

Your statement ignores the effects of the negative feedback loop inherent to its logic. I'll leave the wording obtuse to see if you can figure it out for yourself.

by publo Tue Apr 08, 2003 13:53

Another wasted journey sums up about all we've achieved. Basically the broad anti war coalition on this island achieved nothging. our government continues to ignore international law and acts in contravention of what appears to be the general antiwar feeling and by allowing the yanks use shannon defies the bona fide provisions of our constitution.

I walked to the above protest last night in time to see the pro war head get abuse off the crowd. no need for that i thought, a lone head who wanted to say his piece, took balls, he showed how to act when you believe in something - he wasnt prepared to sit around singing songs and praying for the police.

Weve been losing this struggle allalong except for the few instances when the best of us took direct action of one form or another. I was sickened standing in the fiels off the road yesterday calling on people to join with us and stretch the ruc out a bit, i wasnt planning on making the revolution then and there but bollocks if i was going to stand around listening to the swp.

Boydbarret mentioned why it was that bush and co were in belfast - cos if they went to london, madrid or anywhere else in europe , immediate and persona;l mobilisation and direct protes would have caused mayhem. In ireland we few of us sang a few chants, split up, walked away, were talked at, felt brave for booing sinn fein (in the north too!!) and went home to see if we were on news2.

Now i feel like shit, but we none of us are impotent. Strike against the machine when and where you can, dont be dignified in the green party sense of the word, claim some dignity by Trying to stop this war.

by Erin go Brach Tue Apr 08, 2003 14:25

Lets be honest here folks, the numbers there last night were too few to do anything substantial. Being there, I'd say there was several thousand, and the fact that the anti war movement set up for speeches quite far down the road, away from the Peeler lines didnt help matters. RBB and Co. should not have broken away from the rest of the marchers until the speeches were over, and the masses could and should have walked up to the Peelers then. Must admit, am disappointed at the turnout. Have spoken to friends who said that the radio news was saying that Lisburn was a no-go, and that there was a 5 mile exclusion zone!! That put people off attending.

by activist - I hate priests, bureacrats and vanguardists Tue Apr 08, 2003 14:31 thecaptain at warpmail dot net

Richard Boyd Barrett and the IAWM legitimised the ICTU road block(who needs cops when you have the bureaucrats and leninists to keep people in line) by turning the IAWM banner around at the platform instead of ignoring it and ploughing ahead like the rest of the crowd did. The SWP lost the initiative at this point and their subsequent actions can be seen in terms of their attempt to regain control.

At the police lines I jumped into the field because I was tired of speeches by people on megaphones and lack of movement. I Agree with the commentators remark that we should have done something to grab the headlines. One Idea was to form a human CND sign in the grass (a good photo op), another just to cause a bit of pandemonium with the cops, have them cart us off, or to give them the runaround and keep them guessing. This we tried to convey to the people with the megaphones (=SWP), but for them to pass on the request would have meant that they were relinquishing power and control. Instead they corralled people back onto the road. Announced a few more chants and marched people off to have a ficticious motorway blocking. There was no discussion , just orders given out of fear of losing control.It was pitiful.

I know of at least three rank and file SWP members who tore up their membership cards there and then.

by PK Tue Apr 08, 2003 14:36

1. When in the south:
Obey the organisers at all time - failure to do so makes you a splitter of the movement.

2. When in the north:
Disobey the organisers at all time - failure to do so makes you a splitter of the movement.*

* Or you could pretend that you are in the south, in which case refer to 1. above

It's easy when you know how.
(Having a red flag with the aptly coloured YELLOW fist makes it so much easier)

One positive thing from this though is that nobody will take the stewards seriously on Saturday - bring on the free for all.

by Observer Tue Apr 08, 2003 14:41

Sorry folks but I heard Richie with the megaphone stating clearly that "there are thousands of us here and we can make a stand by making our way to Hillsborough". With that a number of people made their way to the fence and climbed into the field. With regard to the stewarding it was a joke. When that lunatic got up on the pole the stewards didnt know what to do. There were only two stewards in sight anyway. The point is that if the SWP felt the need to march the "masses" to the police lines they should have been well prpared for any eventuality. There were no stewards at the front of the crowd where the potential was trouble was likely to be. The event was totally hijacked so that Richie could pontificate from the megaphone because he was not chairing the rally.

by Observer Tue Apr 08, 2003 14:43

Sorry folks but I heard Richie with the megaphone stating clearly that "there are thousands of us here and we can make a stand by making our way to Hillsborough". With that a number of people made their way to the fence and climbed into the field. With regard to the stewarding it was a joke. When that lunatic got up on the pole the stewards didnt know what to do. There were only two stewards in sight anyway. The point is that if the SWP felt the need to march the "masses" to the police lines they should have been well prpared for any eventuality. There were no stewards at the front of the crowd where the potential was trouble was likely to be. The event was totally hijacked so that Richie could pontificate from the megaphone because he was not chairing the rally.

by swp-er who handed in card Tue Apr 08, 2003 14:50

ego maniacs telling the crowd to sit down so they can listen to them speak.
(u sit down when cops try to lift u not so as to kill momentum)

ego maniacs physically blocking an entrance to field urging u not to go in cos that not what the elite few want.

a lack of balls when it comes down to it. if not now, when? revolutionaries me arse. all talk.

after declining to confront the state and their police as was inteded, leading swp-ers encouraged participation in the 'heroic' blockade of ordinary motorists trying to get home to their families from work.

good luck in the elections richie and co. as thats whats really on u're mind

by Unsure Tue Apr 08, 2003 15:00

While not entirely in agreement with previous thread as to who gave the call. I do think that the SWP put no thought into wha they were doing. To ask people in the 6 counties to sit down in front of RUC lines is a sick joke. In terms of the stewarding it was non existent. At no point did the stewards make any serious effort to deal with the idiot on the pole. The whole point of this is that the SWP called on people to march to the RUC line and had no plan of wat to do when they got there. If they wanted to get stuck in well and good but don't expect people to sit down and leave themselves to the mercy of the RUC.

by Badman Tue Apr 08, 2003 15:13

The SWP like creating the appearance of confrontation to give their leaders the smell of rebellion about them. The act of leading people into a confrontation and them leading them away once they are excited and before anything happens is also good training for the future SWP state. I've seen them "trying to march up grafton street", "trying to get into Shannon airport terminal", "trying to stop the nazis marching" and so on. It means waving placards and chanting a few feet away from the cops, then being led away by the leader for a speech to save us from ourselves lest we take the confrontation seriously and actually have a go.

I fear that they have really shot themselves in the foot this time. It seems that they have pissed off the vast majority of protestors in one way or another with their posturing tactics. The valiant r-r-revolutionaries of the SP reckon that they are headstrong and reckless in even talking about confrontations. Meanwhile all normal (non-brainwashed) people figure out pretty quickly that their tactics are phony, stupid and that when challenged their tyrannical totalitarianism rises to the surface. I mean demanding that people sit down in front of the RUC in riot gear - are you fucking crazy???

by ?? Tue Apr 08, 2003 15:26

Heads split open? Wounded protesters? People thrown in jail with no back up to help them?

The protest was successful in that it made the news, it was a show of resistance and defiance to Bush and Blair, and more so no one got hurt. It may well have been better organised but for being done in such short notice it was well done. What more do you moaners want but people getting hurt and how does that help?

by Badman Tue Apr 08, 2003 15:33

not "leading people into a confrontation and them leading them away once they are excited". That is a recipe for frustration and stupid acts.

by ?? Tue Apr 08, 2003 15:38

You don't know what you want. Are you angry because you did not get to get stuck into the cops? Join the UDA or RIRA if that is what you want and you can riot with the rest of the yobs. Wanker

by SpinDoctor Tue Apr 08, 2003 15:50

For both the spin matters more then what is happening/happened. So what we get is a 'feel' of confrontation with the state but where a deal has really been struck with the cops in advance (Day X and the Dail 'blockade'). How post-modern!

by Observer Tue Apr 08, 2003 15:53

You seem to think people went there to get stuck into the cops or in some want to join an armed organisation. The whole point of this is that the SWP led people away from the main body of the march and could potentially have led people to getting their heads smashed in. Now correct me if i'm wrong but if you are going to organise a counter demonstration please be prepared but more importantly be prepared to take responsibility. Was Richie going to be the one calling some poor kids parents to let them know he/she was after taking a kicking or worse from the cops. Don't lead people into a situation where you have no clue what you are doing. Richie had no control once he got there and worse hadnt a fucking clue what to do with them when he arrived.

by ?? Tue Apr 08, 2003 15:56

How post-modern? How long have you been involved in civil disobedience? What exactly is your aim? You sound like an agitator who wants protesters hurt or arrested which is no good to anyone at this point. Good protests that do not have mayhem and injury as their goal work with the police when they can to ensure their right to protest and be heard is respected. Mutual respect between protesters and cops can go a long way and work to the benefit of those protesters who are also organisers in their communities whose job it is to attract more people to their cause, not less. Arrests and injuries are tactical not nessecary at every action of civil disobedience. Is your aim solely to disrupt or do you actually want to change things? I think you're just a testosterone filled wanker who hasn't a clue about real change and you should seriously consider joining the UDA or CIRA if all you want is to bust heads.

by ?? Tue Apr 08, 2003 15:57

It is obvious from your comments that you were not even at last night's protest - you are here on the newswire to spread disinformation and nothing more. Worthless you are.

by damnbutter Tue Apr 08, 2003 16:01

I was right beside the pole when the incident with the wanker waving the rag on the pole took place. What nobody has mentioned so far was that he had a mate at the base of the pole who mouthed off as well. This moron disappeared into the RUC lines - he was not led away, he wlked through without escort, the other guy was gently led away by the militia. They were obviously there to provoke "violence", - they may well have been touts. They did suceed to a small extent, by offering the Yank flag to be grilled, which made the front page of the one or two papers. Not that I have any problem with that though it does offer pro-war opinion ammunition, and I would have prefered to have the British shitrag burned.

by SpinDoctor Tue Apr 08, 2003 16:09

I've less of a problem with Faslane style protests where everyone admits it is all worked out in advance with the cops. But the SWP version is to march people up chanting 'One solution, revolution' and pretend they are doing something naughty when in reality all has already been worked out with the cops. It has the same relationship to revolution as pornography has to sex. Which is more then 0 but not a lot more.

As for your CIRA slur - well this SWP behaviour goes hand in hand with refusing to alert people to potential dangers. Recent example was the refusal to tell people at the Dail that the riot police were coming up. Like the CIRA the SWP reckon it knows what is good for us and makes decisions on our behalf.

This is simply a demand for less spinning and more honesty.

by ?? Tue Apr 08, 2003 16:12

Then those leading the protests need to get their act together about what their objective is and how to better communicate with and steward those attending the protest. The other comments appear more a disappointment in not being able to get stuck into anyone than a critique of protest tactics.

by PK Tue Apr 08, 2003 16:13

"Mutual respect between protesters and cops can go a long way and work to the benefit of those protesters who are also organisers in their communities whose job it is to attract more people to their cause, not less. Arrests and injuries are tactical not nessecary at every action of civil disobedience".

Obviously you weren't outside the Dail last week where several community police were protecting Bertie's stormtroopers thus undoing a lot of trust in many communities.
Mutual respect - don't make me vomit.

by Mags Tue Apr 08, 2003 17:13

"Mutual respect between protesters and cops..."
What fucking planet are you on??

Furthermore what is all this 'join the CIRA' and 'join the UDA' shite - stop sidetracking the discussion into stupid irrelevancies, you are better than Fianna Fail.

Anyway here is my tuppence worth on Hillsborough - it got lost on another thread on here, so some of the points have been made already, but what the hell.

Someone started this thread by saying that Rich Boy called on people to enter the fields - the truth is that he called on them NOT TO. Going into the fields was a good idea because it would stretch their lines, they would have to have 1 peeler for every one or two protesters and there would have been a greater chance of people getting through.

However the most of the march stood in a line on the road actually getting in the way of the people who wanted to go into the field (it took me 10 minutes to get through them). The trendies seemed to view a field as dangerous alien territory and the idea of climbing a ditch as totally outside their ability. Scary. Might mess up the rainbow clothing I suppose.

I was talking to some ordinary middle aged Belfast people and they were very pissed off at all the 'sit down on the road crap'. One woman was saying 'I have never sat down in front of them and I never will', meaning the RUC riot squad. Another man pointed out that if they decided to attack people would be totally defenceless.

Furthermore the stewards made no effort at all to remove the moron doing the pro-American media stunt up the pole. Surely it is the role of the stewards to control such a situation before it gets out of hand. Instead it got slightly nasty, until some ordinary people on the march removed him and he scuttled off to safety behind RUC lines.

However the truth was most evident in all the Dublin protesters constantly telling each other 'the buses are going back at 8.30'. Since the SWP had run these buses and presumably set the time it was clear that nothing could happen that might delay the buses running on time.

by Mags Tue Apr 08, 2003 17:13

"Mutual respect between protesters and cops..."
What fucking planet are you on??

Furthermore what is all this 'join the CIRA' and 'join the UDA' shite - stop sidetracking the discussion into stupid irrelevancies, you are better than Fianna Fail.

Anyway here is my tuppence worth on Hillsborough - it got lost on another thread on here, so some of the points have been made already, but what the hell.

Someone started this thread by saying that Rich Boy called on people to enter the fields - the truth is that he called on them NOT TO. Going into the fields was a good idea because it would stretch their lines, they would have to have 1 peeler for every one or two protesters and there would have been a greater chance of people getting through.

However the most of the march stood in a line on the road actually getting in the way of the people who wanted to go into the field (it took me 10 minutes to get through them). The trendies seemed to view a field as dangerous alien territory and the idea of climbing a ditch as totally outside their ability. Scary. Might mess up the rainbow clothing I suppose.

I was talking to some ordinary middle aged Belfast people and they were very pissed off at all the 'sit down on the road crap'. One woman was saying 'I have never sat down in front of them and I never will', meaning the RUC riot squad. Another man pointed out that if they decided to attack people would be totally defenceless.

Furthermore the stewards made no effort at all to remove the moron doing the pro-American media stunt up the pole. Surely it is the role of the stewards to control such a situation before it gets out of hand. Instead it got slightly nasty, until some ordinary people on the march removed him and he scuttled off to safety behind RUC lines.

However the truth was most evident in all the Dublin protesters constantly telling each other 'the buses are going back at 8.30'. Since the SWP had run these buses and presumably set the time it was clear that nothing could happen that might delay the buses running on time.

by chris;0) Tue Apr 08, 2003 17:19

But i think we all should have gone into the field and made a peace symbol or showed some sign of solidarity.

by Biff Bang Pow Tue Apr 08, 2003 17:28

I was at the protest last night and it is obvious that the SWP were intent on having their own protest which took away from the main rally. I have no problem with that but at least have the sense to bring people down after the rally was over and let them know what you intend doing when you when you get there. The arguement being put forward that people criticising the SWP wanted to see people get attacked by the cops or should join armed groups is bullshit and is being used as a distraction from the main point. The SWP went on a solo because they didnt control the platform at the main rally. Richie is enjoying his 15 minutes of fame and isnt going to give it up too easily.
Did they honestly think they were going to get anywhere near Hillsborough? Or was the whole exercise another sham attempt by the SWP to show their new recruits how radical they are. The defeat of capitalism and imperialism takes a bit more than shouting slogans at riot cops.

by cadence Tue Apr 08, 2003 18:25

Squabble,squabble,squabble. I'm Sick of this shit. Pull together you crowd of self obsessed whingers. There's a war going on.People are dying.Unite and stop bashing each other up.....

by Aidan - IMC Ireland Tue Apr 08, 2003 19:11

Does this belong to you?
by J Tue, Apr 8 2003, 4:11pm
Saw this great opinion earlier and wanted to reply to it but i'm not sure where its disappeared to? Anyone in IMC know?

Something different
by Me - in a personal capactiy Tue, Apr 8 2003, 3:23pm
Sick of marching and sitting and not being listened to.

I'm tired of the futile protests. I guess I'm writing this to see what other people think. Here's my reasoning.

We all follow the protest routine. We go along to pre-arranged protest, usually organised by some branch of the SWP these days. The protests are organised with the Gardai. We are 'allowed' to march.
We are given a route, along the same streets as always, usually ones with few people, never Grafton St for example, or the busy streets on the north side of town. Always the same route and safetly out of the view of most of the public. The only people who see us are those in cars who are trying to get by us and resent us for slowing them down.
Media coverage is non-existant if there is no violence. If there is coverage we are portrayed as a lunatic fringe.

We are given a space in which to vent our anger, we are controlled. Then we are ignored.

The violence and anger that errupts at protests i believe is as a result of the frustration caused by this control. We direct our anger at the police, a symbol of what is keeping us down. We fight then and hate them but the individual gardai are just people. We are not getting anywhere close to the root of the problem. Those our anger should be directed towrds are safely locked away.

Coming towards the g8 in Evian and at this crucial time of war we need to start thinking about a new creative way to protest.

We should never ask to protest. We should never allow our anger to be controlled by the government and system we are protesting against. But we need to direct it and find the right channels to effectively make a difference.

Just some thoughts, feel free to disagree, comment away.

add your comments

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COMMENTS
Empathy
by Ruairi Tue, Apr 8 2003, 4:29pm

agree. Agree. Agree.

Protest fine but managed, agreed dissent is ridiculous. The same old chants, organisers, 'leaders' and the shocking lack of imagination. Indeed - time to get the thinking cap grooving and get creative, get confrontational, direct, local, smarter..better! wE ONLy have so much energy and it might be time to assess where it goes and what use it is.

Allowed to protest
by xConorx Tue, Apr 8 2003, 4:32pm
address: belfast

A common complaint from the wishy-washy liberals, ICTU and SWP is that if there is direct action or anything resembling real protest "the police won't allow us to march again". What?!! Since when did we need permission from the police to protest? The very fact that we are "allowed" to protest shows that in most cases the police know the marches will be tame - we'll assemble, walk, stop, listen to some boring speeches, then disperse - no real threat at all. They are "allowing" us to protest because they see it as no threat at all.

What good are these liberal rights to free assembly, freedom of speech etc when they are not used to really challenge the status quo or actually affect some real change? it makes us feel good to march or protest, but the fact that the police seem totally prepared and unphased by these marches demonstrates that they pose no real threat.

That is not to say that they are not worthwhile - they are of course a necessary part of political challenge and dissent but they should be combined with direct action , strikes and civil disobedience on a mass level.

Volume of posts
by Aidan Tue, Apr 8 2003, 6:06pm

We're trying to move all newswire pieces which are just comments, off the newswire, and put them as comments on a suitable newswire thread.

This stops any actual news from being shoved down the newswire.

by jpc - swp Tue Apr 08, 2003 19:22

whats wrong with ye all? if you are not happy you just use the scapegoat that is the swp to blame for your own failings, you know full well the crowd were not going to jump into the field as if majestically the swp controlled the entire crowd, anyone who did want to jump into the field did,end of story, you go and get your heads heads smashed by the ruc you fucking assholes you'd probably blame the swp for that too.
as for bypassing the platform, it has got to be said that why the fuck was the platform out in the middle of the road? there was a huge swath of empty concrete road ahead of us and it it was just logical to continue on as far as we could have went,last nite was not the time for speeches and rallying calls(yes that means we did not have to listen to *god himself* joe higgins or mitchell mclayghlin).
if you wanna blame someone for the split at the platform blame the ictu,if you wanna blame people not for jumping into the field blame those who did not share the desire like you assholes to get their heads kicked in and be savaged by dogs.

by davy Tue Apr 08, 2003 19:44

As someone who was at the front lines of the march yesterday,I can definitly say,Boyd Barrett did not call for an attack on police lines.In fact it was very much the opposite,the anger and passion of the marchers,was destroyed by the calls to sit down and stay back from the lines,coming from Barrett and my other Dublin SWP 'comrades'.The same comrades who on the way led the chants of revolution,bowed down very quickly to the forces of the state.The Dublin 'comrades' yesterday took over the stewarding of the march and showed their usual contempt for the party activists from the back waters of Derry and Belfast.Ordering them to move from the lines,trying to block them making any attempt to continue with the march,then settling for the safe option of causing traffic chaos to the ordinary people of the area by blocking a road a mile from the police lines.Chants and brave words are all well and good,when there is no danger,but when these are just empty sloganeering,people soon see through the plastic revolutionary.

by jpc - swp Tue Apr 08, 2003 20:16

we were never going to try and break thru the barricades, the mood of the crowd just was not there, there was no point in just a handul of people fighting and getting their heads cracked open as the rest watched,make no mistake i wish we did push forward and i tried my best to jab some of the riot squad in the head with the flag, but as i said the spirit just was not there(i was scolded for having a go at the ruc) boyd barrett was right.

by Dave Tue Apr 08, 2003 20:52

Yeah Conor dead on - you radical anarchist. When do we need permission to march. Well go and organise one then instead of posturing at events organised by others. Do it tomorrow if you don't need permission - see who'll follow. Or maybe put a mask on your head and pretend to be the saviour of humankind.

by NIX Tue Apr 08, 2003 20:56

dublin swp I have never seen such a shower of useless wankers. middle class stupid pricks. Even if i dont agree with them at least some of their belfast members have the guts to fight. That show in hillsborough was awful. clearly the debate about direct action is a different subject north and south.

by one big happy family Tue Apr 08, 2003 21:00

By the way, any truth in the rumor that the swp leadership (without telling the belfast members) was in contact with the boys in blue days before discussing the demo???????????????

by jpc Tue Apr 08, 2003 21:09

"dublin swp I have never seen such a shower of useless wankers. middle class stupid pricks"

"By the way, any truth in the rumor that the swp leadership (without telling the belfast members) was in contact with the boys in blue days before discussing the demo???????????????"

viciuos lies and smears, do you assholes have anything better to do then to bitch about the swp?

by barry Tue Apr 08, 2003 22:40

just for my tuppence, rich boys second attempt to get everyone to hear him explain ablout not going into the field included the analysis! that the field was in the wrong direction and that if people wanted to move in the direction of the war criminals then they should go through the cop line. maybe he was just pissed off that no-one was listening to him even though he had a megaphone, but that's (roughly) what he said, I'm sure someone somewhere has the audio if they want to put it online.

On everyones other gripe, all I can suggest is that if you want to do more than follow everyone else at a demo, may I suggest a few practical steps you can take:

1. talk to the locals, they're usually the ones with the knowledge of the situation on the ground, so making contact with activists in the region and listening to their advice or opinions will increase the likelyhood of planning a feasible action.

2. arrive early and scout around for yourself, get familiar with the opposition and locate any likely weaknesses, then use that knowledge to refine your plans.

3. learn to communicate clearly during an action, random individuals espousing great ideas and small groups bickering and bitching whilst all around an extremely fluid situation is unfolding is not the ideal way to react to unforeseen circumstances and opportunities.

ALL OF THE ABOVE IS IRRELEVANT AND CAN BE SAFELY IGNORED IF YOUR GOAL IS GLOURIOUS MARTYRDOM OR BUILDING A BROAD MASS MOVEMENT.

by front lines Wed Apr 09, 2003 09:08

RBB
I will phone you with these comments, and i hope you take notice before the shannon protest on saturday.
i was nose to nose with the riot police in hillsborough. it was not them that made me scared, itimidated, confused and isolated. BUT YOU. shouting through the mega phone, to make everyone sit down to listen to YOU. get over yourself and think of others. people didn't want to sit down. when they eventually did, everyone else was up again, and you encouraged them to go to block the M1, more lies to get people to go back to the carpark and listen to YOU. myself and a small number were left with no support or solidarity sitting in the road (as orginaly instructed) to face the riot police alone. your action were out of order. have some respect for the people you supposedly represent, or get out of it!

by not me Thu Apr 10, 2003 19:15

Davy above NOT davy carlin